Could the antichrist be a Muslim

[iamlamad]

REvelation Man wrote,

The BEASTS Revealed by the Angel in Daniel 7 are about Conquering Powers that Ruled Israel/Judea  and/or enslaved the Jewish or Israeli peoples. Again, the BEASTS of Daniel 7 are not the same as the Statue, as per the meaning. You confuse yourself and others by imputing this.  The precious Metals (and Clay) have a purpose, to show the Kingdoms and the fact that their Base is not stable, but built on a foundation hat will not stand, Iron (Men) mixed with Clay (Demons).  Only men who build their foundation on the Rock Jesus will stand. Jesus will SMASH the Statue. THE BEASTS are about the Nations who have Conquered, Enslaved or Ruled Israel/Jerusalem/Jewish Peoples. 

        Its self explanatory. And the Scriptures have been stated over and over.

Did you notice that the 4 beasts of Daniel 7 are all CONCURRENT, but RESEMBLE the different parts of the image of chapter 2? Daniel wrote that when THE beast (the 4th) was taken and killed, the other 3 were allowed to remain (not killed) for a time and a season (perhaps 13 months?). This tells us these four beasts or four KINGS or PRESIDENTS or leaders of nations will all be living at the end - meaning all are living TODAY.  Will the leader of Iran be one of them?

[iamlamad]

13 hours ago, BobRyan said:

Both Daniel 2 and Daniel 7 point to Rome and in Daniel 7 Rome is the 4th beast in the sequence with Medo-Persia and Greece being "named" -- leaving it to the reader to find that Rome follows Greece.

Rev 13 relies on that and we see the beast descriptions in Daniel 7 - repeated in the intro of Rev 13.

Rev 12 points to 1260 years of the dark ages that begin some time after Christ ascends to heaven and sometime before the Papacy receives the deadly wound of loss of its power, its papal states and its pope taken captive. 1798

 

One news outlet referred to the partial recovery of the Vatican from that "wound" - this way -

 

And since this is the 500th year of the Protestant Reformation -

Luther - "We are of the conviction that the papacy is the seat of the true and real Antichrist" (Martin Luther).  D'Aubigné, b.6, ch. 9. 

 

You seem to be saying that it is not telling us anything about history except that it starts off obviously telling us about the history of the nation-church of Israel and the birth of Christ and then Christ being taken up into heaven . etc etc ... all of that his in fact history that even you admit to being in the chapter.

 

The chapter does not end there of course - because the chapter goes on to describe the persecuted church of the NT being persecuted all during the 1260 years of dark ages that follow.

There is no divided-week-abomination mentioned in Rev 12.

I can't help it if you can't see it. It is there. What did Jesus tell those living in Judea to do when they see the abomination? He told them to FLEE - and do it instantly: there will be no time to do anything but run for your life! So we know 12:6 will be a second or two after the abomination that stops the daily sacrifices and divides the week into two halves. See? It has been there all the time: you have just missed it. So from verse 6 to the end there is NO HISTORY: it is talking about things that will happen from the midpoint of the week onward. 

There are five events mentioned in chapters 11-13 that will begin near the exact midpoint and go to the end of the week. They show us that these chapters are MIDPOINT chapters.

[Diaste]

49 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Why would you assume that to be the case. Its not Rocket Science, their history is in the bible for all to see. 

It would not make sense for God to confuse Nebuchadnezzar needlessly, him and his Kingdom are irrelevant in the long-run to God. God via the Angels spoke the facts. Then when God revealed the Seven Headed Beast He also spoke the facts, there are SEVEN BEASTS that Conquered Israel, not 4 plus the coming Little Horn which = 5, so the facts need to be told as they are. The Seven Headed Beast represents all the Kingdoms that Conquered Israel/Jerusalem/Jewish peoples. Nebuchadnezzar had no right nor need to know all of Gods business. God was only seeking to allow Daniel to gain favor with Nebuchadnezzar, God could have just given these dreams to Daniel and skipped Nebuchadnezzar, but He wanted Daniel to gain favor. Also, God doesn't always give reveal all of His Secrets/Mystery's, He made Daniel close up the book without revealing much unto him. 

Yes, we are of God, Nebuchadnezzar was not of God, also why confuse Israel by relating to them Egypt and Assyria were Beasts also at that time. It was easier, especially with Writing and printing being SO MUCH HARDER back in the day, we have it easy, COMPUTERS...Bing, bing, bing....we can see all thins in a flash. From Babylon to Rome and then the Coming Little Horn, that was the way God desired to do it. God can tell about the Seven Headed Beast in Revelation, and that is what He did, you denting that those Six Nations Conquered. Enslaved, Ruled Israel?  Lets no worry about what God chooses to do and when, lets just observe and understand.  { You really don't make any deep points here, the facts are the facts, you are just mentioning semantics, which I find odd. I don't quite get it...............Also the Rapture happens before the Seven Year Tribulation Period. I notice that people who get this wrong seem to be off kilter with other scriptures also.}

No, it means I am not playing games by continually repeating myself, if you haven't understood by now odds are you will not get it. My thoughts have been repeated over and over so ether you just browse through or you don't get it. I have a thread that tells all of my belief on this, no use cluttering up space here, if you desire to know God read it. 

Can't grasp it, I see......if you are not of God you are of Satan. Simple.

It makes me correct because the Holy Spirit is correct. You have to understand how to hear His voice, I can't explain it, you just have to be able to hear it. I never heard on many of these subjects for almost 30 years until the last couple of years. I has assumptions, beliefs, logical understandings like many, for years. I never say this is of the Holy Spirit if its of me, there is the difference between my/our understanding and  Gods revelation via the Holy Spirit. Once the Holy Spirit reveals something to me, a billion people and a pack of dogs can not drag me off of that understanding.

3 years ago, I (I) believed the the Pope was a strong candidate for the False Prophet and that ROME was that City mentioned in Revelation 17:18, I believed through much study that Satan possessed the Anti-Christ, that the 8th King was only the Anti-Christ RISEN AGAIN as being POSSESSED by Satan....But that was ME...I, MY, Carnal understandings......I studied for two straight years every day in Daniel and Revelation, I wrote a blog and was very close, I understood that the Harlot and Babylon were two different entities, God gives t those who seek, as we all know, but one night, the Holy Spirit gave it all to me, told in my spirit, you are wrong about this, this and this............BOOM, it was clear as day. Everything I had studied for two years, whatever I hadn't figured out just came to me, boom, boom, boom, because God knows all, and freely gives to those that seek after knowledge. Revelation 17:18 is not a City, not the RCC, not Babylon proper etc. etc, its just what God says as the Governments of the Earth, and the Harlot is ALL FALSE RELIGION. She Rides the Back of the Beast. They are co-mingled partners for 1000's of years, until the BEAST kills her off (Revelation 17:16). I then asked WHY......The Spirit says well he wants to be the ONLY GOD !! I was like Oh my !! So he.......he.... kills off Islam and all Religions !!! Thus the Harlot is JUDGED. And God will judge Babylon....with plagues and fire, and via Jesus who will SMASH THE STATUE !!!!! I sat stunned, I spent two years and had some of this, but in 30 minutes God via the Holy Spirit told me I was wrong, then showed me all of these deep things. The moral is, unless you are willing to be wrong, its likely you will not hear when God speaks to you about where it is you are wrong. You see it as pride, I guess, I see it as of God, and nothing can change my mind once the Holy Spirit reveals it to me, I am WRONG MANY TIMES....I never claim my understandings or the be all end all. But Gods Holy Spirit is never wrong. 

The Beast is a MAN.....He is an Atheist, at some point I am sure he comes to the understanding he has been duped by Satan and his lot is cast with Satan. That's not the point, up until that point, he doesn't believe in God, he is an Atheist. Of course when the False Prophet arises with him at the MID-WAY point and when Satan is cast to earth at the MID-WAY point, from that point in time, we don't know, he probably will understand whats gong on, the point is he comes to power via peace, and by solving riddles and conundrums. He is an Atheist. All the Leaders of the world are, but they unknowingly still SERVE SATAN....You have to serve somebody. That's true. 

Yes. Your credentials are impeccable. What I suspect happened is you realized that in order to grow your congregation and the keep the funds rolling in, you would have to align yourself with current eschatology. This is generally the role of the pastor, to keep peace and assuage the low in heart. From the behavior you exhibit when challenged I would say you realize you have compromised and you just don't like someone pointing out the fact.

This forum is set up the purpose of discussing the word of God necessitating the posting of copious scripture early and often. Your consistent refusal is telling and your 'cluttering' argument is weak.

Further, your declaration, "The holy spirit said." Is refuted by the shaming behavior you engage in when challenged and the continual refusal to post even the simplest of verses or the barest of passages. Is this how the Holy Ghost leads? I doubt it. And not only that but I have brought up your insulting behaviour towards me several times and you ignore it. Is this how the Holy spirit leads you to interact with the members of the elect? Again, I think not.

 

[iamlamad]

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

Yes. biblegateway and biblehub are my go to studytools. Just a copy and paste error on my part. 

NIV Rev 16:18

 ¹⁸ Then there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder and a severe earthquake. No earthquake like it has ever occurred since mankind has been on earth, so tremendous was the quake.The content is similar enough to conclude these 21 events are not strictly consecutive. More of a consecutive concurrence. 

Rev. 6  ¹² And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

¹³ And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

¹⁴ And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Note: every island and mountain MOVED...

Rev. 16  ¹⁸ And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

¹⁹ And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

²⁰ And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

There is a huge difference between islands and mountains moving and disappearing. These are NOT the same earthquakes.

In my humble opinion, the earthquake at the 6th seal will be caused by the dead in Christ rising, so some of the dead being dead almost 2000 years. The 7th vial earthquake is MUCH BIGGER. I believe it will be caused by the Old Testament saints rising. Some of them have been dead for close to 6000 years and some of them will come from before the flood.  Their atoms or quarks (or whatever level) that once made up their flesh and blood bodies may be scattered over thousands of miles or be a hundred miles deep. It will cause an amazing earthquake when God raises them!

[iamlamad]

11 hours ago, wingnut- said:

17 hours ago, iamlamad said:

"His coming" will not take but an instant of time. 

Does scripture state that somewhere? No. There are many things not written in scripture. That does not necessarily make them either false or true. God is everywhere at once. But Jesus has never said how long it will take Him to get from heaven to earth. I say "an instant of time." If you disagree, so what?

Hundreds of people have been taken to heaven and allowed to return and tell us their testimonies. For some it seemed they traveled out of the solar system and into the world of stars. But for others they were here on earth, and they were suddenly there in heaven, in a flash or a wink of an eye. 

 

17 hours ago, iamlamad said:

He comes FOR His church and remains hidden in a cloud.

Scripture that says this please?

1 Thessalonians 4:17

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

He is in the clouds and we will be in the clouds. From there we go to heaven. (John 14)

 

17 hours ago, iamlamad said:

These are TWO comings FOR TWO different purposes.

Scripture that speaks about these two events and purposes please?

It is very simple: some people have on preconceived glasses and see all scripture through those glasses. But just to assist you a little: He comes FOR His bride: 1 thes. 4 & 5 and John 14. 

He comes WITH His Bride: Rev. 19

You know these scriptures: you just don't beleive them as written.

[iamlamad]

11 hours ago, wingnut- said:

 

No, an English major and a writer would say this.

How about making this really simple, show me one passage that speaks of the gathering/ catching away that does not reference His coming back to earth.

I am sure you know the scriptures better than I do. The difference may be that I believe them as written. John 14 is a good scripture. We all know Jesus went to HEAVEN to make abodes for us. And John 14 gives us a very strong hint that He will take us to those abodes (palaces, mansions, or shacks). HE will be in heaven for the 70th week. And where He is we will be.

We get to ESCAPE what is coming. That is, those who can believe there is an escape. If someone does not believe in an escape (not believing in Luke 21:36) then it is quite likely they will not find the escape and they will be left behind still wondering.

Did you never read this?

Luke 12:36

And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.

 

The contest is HIS COMING. But which coming? Will He be returning from a wedding when He comes pretrib FOR His saints? No! The marriage and supper are after the entire 70th week has finished. But HE WILL return from the marriage supper as shown to us in Rev. 19.

 

I guess you must imagine those abodes He went to prepare for us will be in the city when it descends down to the NEW earth?  No, we will see these mansions far sooner than that! For those that get caught up (1 thes. 4) pretrib, they will see their abode soon. But for those left behind that refuse the mark and lose their head - they also will see their abode, but AFTER those in Christ have been caught up.

 

Note to readers: People have been trying ever since Jesus ascended to force the two comings of our Lord into one.  The problem is, half the scriptures on His coming don't fit.  What do they do?  WHAM! BAM! SMASH! (trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.)

 

I don't want you to be left behind. I hope you will mediate on Luke 21:36. YOU can escape what is coming. That is, IF you can believe.

[iamlamad]

7 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Can't you read the scriptures?  Of course I can read. And I can listen to the Holy Spirit, to Jesus and to the Father. I am NOT spiritually deaf. IF you are hearing from the Holy Spirit, He will not tell you something contrary to what He might tell someone else. What we the readers of your posts do not know is what is from the Holy Spirit and what is your reasonings added to what the Holy Spirit might have said.

Daniel 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full (END TIME EVENT when the Sins of men fill up the Bowls of Gods WRATH), a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

Why is it you SKIP the word "their?" This entire chapter is about ancient Persia and Alexander the great. When Daniel wrote "THEIR kingdom," he was referring to what was left after Alexander died: the dynasties of the four generals. All four were "transgressors" and when the time was right, each dynasty was destroyed: one by another, but the remaining three by ROME. I have no problem with someone saying they heard from God. I hear from God. But when they write something contrary to what is written, I think their human reasoning has been added to what they heard. Your theory pulls this verse out of its contest. Anyone can make the bible say anything by pulling verses out of context. STOP IT! DON'T DO IT! This "king of fierce countenance" is talking about Antiochus Epiphanes. You will find most commentators knew this.

24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people. Antiochus Epiphanes.

25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes;(Jesus Christ...Capital P) but he shall be broken without hand. { It is NOT Antiochus, never has been, never will be and CAN'T BE. }  WRONG! Your human reasoning again! Jesus is the same, yesterday (in the time of Antiochus) today and forever. When He was attacking Israel, He was coming against the Prince of princes. Believe it! It is truth.

Everyone knows it, it isn't even that hard. I find some people grab a "Narrative" and let it lead them to a conclusion. I follow the Holy Scriptures, nit traditions of men. So you imagine others don't follow the Holy Scriptures? The truth is, YOU are not following the Holy Scriptures here. This is about Antiochus.

Antiochus means NOTHING !! WRONG! He was a TYPE of the Beast of Rev. 14. I suspect that is why some of the scriptures spent time on him. He did terrible things to Israel.   It has nothing to do with Rev. 13 per se. That is only showing the Seven Heads of the Beast. Where he is born has everything to do with following the map God laid out for us in Daniel 7 and 8. He has to arise from TWO KINGDOMS at once. From the Fourth Beasts Head and from one of the Four Generals..........thus he has to arise from BOTH....Thus it can only be Greece. This is just more human reasoning. We don't need to know where the Antichrist Beast was born.  Of course if your foundation is faulty (and it is) your conclusion will be faulty. Leave Daniel 8 for Antiochus and start over.

You guys better start sticking with the Scriptures, Daniel 7 is VERY CLEAR and Daniel 8 is VERY CLEAR.....Ah! Got it! So when anyone disagrees with you - they are not following the scripture! No, it is that I REFUSE to pull scripture out of its context. You, apparently, have no problem with doing it. The Riddle has always been (in your human reasoning. I have never had this riddle because I know Daniel 8 is about Antiochus) how can he arise out of BOTH at the same time, well, that's easy, Jesus was a citizen of both Judea and Rome. That is why I Cross referenced the FACTS..........God will always lead us to the truth, when it is time for things to be revealed.

No I am not, (Just admit it: Daniel 8 is ALL about Persia, and Alexander and then the dynasties of the four generals that follow. I hope you realize this was FUTURE TENSE to Daniel at the time and was prophecy for Israel to read and know ahead of time.)  you are trying to hold on to an untenable position. (The TRUTH is not untenable). NO....you don't grasp it, the Grecian Empire is told about in Daniel 7, (Daniel, the book, is not written in chronological order. Daniel 8 is placed in Daniel 8 for a place to put it. I think you need to spend more time there.)  as is Rome, but the only reason to RETELL the story about the Grecian Empire is to tell about the Little Horn that comes forth from him in the LATTER TIME....(No, Daniel was writing prophecy, a FORETELLING at that time, of what was soon to come: Alexander would destroy Medo-persia.) Greece is still here buddy. (But the land area in question, which is ISRAEL, changed hands from part of the Greecian Kingdom to a part of the Roman Kingdom. It is written in history that Alexander met the Priests in Jerusalem and asked them to petition God for him. I believe this happened. By the way, it is a waste of time trying to rewrite history. Why even try?)There would be no reason to retell the story, except the BEAST arises out of Daniel 8 just like he arises out of Daniel 7. (WRONG! Antiochus came and Daniel wrote about it. )We have to figure it out. You refuse to understand what is plain as day, the Prince of princes is Jesus Christ. 

Babylon will not be alive as a Beast......The 7 Horns are whats left of the 10 Kings and have nothing to do with the Daniel 7 Little Horn per se, except they arise WITH HIM, and give their power unto him. The Little Horn is THE BEAST.

I follow the Holy Spirit, not men, so it is what it is..........Daniel 8 is going to make all understanding to be off kilter by those who think its Antiochus. 

If you followed the Holy Spirit completely, then you would believe the scriptures and follow them. And then you would KNOW that "Mystery Babylon" is a city. Why is it you have such a hard time believing that Babylon in Revelation is a city, just as it is written? Ah! Those dreaded preconceived glasses!

The truth is, your theory is off kilter because you pulled verses from Daniel 8 out of context to make them say what was never intended by the Author. You may have heard from the Holy Spirit, but you have added human reasoning. It is almost impossible not to. However, in many things you are dead on. 

[iamlamad]

40 minutes ago, Giller said:

Here are interesting scriptures, which talks of 7 heads, and these 7 heads, actually refer to 3 things.

I will do a comparison, of what these 3 things are:

Rev 17:7 (7)  And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.	Rev 17:9 (9)  And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.	Rev 17:10-11 (10)  And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. (11)  And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
Comment on Revelation 17:7 : So here it refers to 7 heads that the Antichrist (the beast) has, which refers to 7 leaders of nations which will give it’s allegiance to the Antichrist. These 7, refer to modern day nations, which in ancient times was a persecutor of Israel. All of these nations, as ancient empires, are mentioned in the bible.   Here they are: 1.Egypt (modern day Egypt) 2.Assyria (modern day Syria) 3.Babylon (modern day Iraq) 4.Persia (modern day Iran) 5.Greece (modern day Greece) 6.Rome (modern day Rome) 7.Roman Catholicism (still to this day) The only empire that still exists today is Roman Catholicism which if you look at it’s history, it was a big persecutor of the Jews, In fact the pope during the time of Hitler supported Hitler, and I have another post that mentions many of it’s persecutions of the Jews.	Comment on Revelation 17:9 : In this case, the seven heads refer to seven mountains on which the woman sitteth. The seven mountains refer to the 7 hills that Rome is founded on, which some have called 7 small mountains. The woman refers to Roman Catholicism. And even though Roman Catholicism’s headquarters is the Vatican, which is said not to be on one of the seven hills, Roman Catholicism, nevertheless has a strong hold upon these 7 hills, and many of it’s headquarters, even main headquarters, of it’s many organisations, are on these seven hills, such as the Jesuits, Knights of Malta etc, even the Lateran palace.	Comment on Revelation 17:10-11 : Now concerning this scripture, it is not referring to 7 heads that the Antichrist has, but rather to 7 kings that the Antichrist is of. Now here are scriptures on the five who are fallen: Dan 11:2-4 (2)  And now will I shew thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia; and the fourth shall be far richer than they all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia. (3)  And a mighty king shall stand up, that shall rule with great dominion, and do according to his will. (4)  And when he shall stand up, his kingdom shall be broken, and shall be divided toward the four winds of heaven; and not to his posterity, nor according to his dominion which he ruled: for his kingdom shall be plucked up, even for others beside those.  These 5 who are fallen, refer to Cyrus, Cambyses, Darius I, and the 4th refers to Xerxes who stirred up all against the realm of Grecia.  And the 5th refers to Alexander the great. So from there, when Alexander the Great died, his kingdom was broken and divided into 4 . So who is the sixth King? That is the one who is? And it seems to refer to a king or leader that shall be during the time of the tribulation period, for during this time he shall be. Well we have to go to a scripture which shows a sixth king, followed by a seventh king, and unto the 8th king which is the Antichrist. Dan 11:19-22 (19)  Then he shall turn his face toward the fort of his own land: but he shall stumble and fall, and not be found. (20)  Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes in the glory of the kingdom: but within few days he shall be destroyed, neither in anger, nor in battle. (21)  And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries. (22)  And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant. In Daniel this sixth king refers to Antiochus the Great, but also it refers to a double prophecy, of a future man reigning in modern day Syria (which you can call Assyria revised). The northern kingdom referred to in Daniel 11, referred to Syria. Then we get to a raiser of taxes, which referred to Seleucus IV, but also to a modern leader that shall rise up. And the vile person that rises up, refers to both Antiochus Epiphanes, and the coming Antichrist.

 

So the 7 heads points us to 7 leaders of nations that will give their support ot the Antichrist, and it points us to 7 mountains or hills , that Roman Catholicism is seated on,  but also it shows forth 7 kings that the Antichrist shall be “of” “of “ “of” .

And I believe that these 7 that he shall be of, is referring to the Antichrist really being of these nations in some form, and I believe these nations are in order, of how he shall be of them.

The first nation it mentions is Iran (modern day Persia), and will the Antichrist first come from here?

To where he is born and raised from here?

I believe so.

And the next nation that is mentioned is Greece, how shall he be of Greece?

Well I will get into that in my next post, and will associate it with the wound that one of the Antichrist’s heads gets, and it gets healed.

Then how shall he be of Syria?

Well he shall start his political reign there as the leader of Syria.

So it is maybe in this fashion, that the Antichrist gets called “the Assyrian”.

So now what about this saying as concerns the Antichrist?

Revelation 17:8

(…when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.)

 

Well we have to surround this saying with the 6^th king that presently was, and when this 6^th king that presently was is in power, the Antichrist shall not be in power (is not), in the sense of having a political reign, but the Antichrist shall be alive during this time (that was, and yet is), but won’t yet be this eighth king, during the sixth’s king’s reign,

 

Here are 3 comparisons.

 

Rev 17:10 (10)  And there are seven kings: five are fallen,….)	Rev 17:10 (10)  And there are seven kings: …and one is, …	Rev 17:10 (10)  And there are seven kings:…, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
Dan 11:2-3 (2)  And now will I shew thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia; and the fourth shall be far richer than they all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia. (3)  And a mighty king shall stand up, that shall rule with great dominion, and do according to his will.	Dan 11:19 (19)  Then he shall turn his face toward the fort of his own land: but he shall stumble and fall, and not be found.	Dan 11:20 (20)  Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes in the glory of the kingdom: but within few days he shall be destroyed, neither in anger, nor in battle.

 

God is good.

Sorry, but the 7 "hills" are referring to KINGDOMS or nations, NOT the Vatican that some say sits on 7 hills. God is NOT talking about the Vatican here.  Without much doubt, he is writing of 7 Muslim nations that surround (or are near) to Israel.

[iamlamad]

16 hours ago, Diaste said:

Is that so? Challenge accepted

 

This is the seventh seal.

 

Rev 8:5

Then the angel took the censer, filled it with fire from the altar, and hurled it on the earth; and there came peals of thunder, rumblings, flashes of lightning and an earthquake.

 

This is the seventh trumpet

 

Rev 11:19

Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant. And there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake and a severe hailstorm.

 

This is the seventh bowl

 

Rev 16:17-18

¹⁷ The seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and out of the temple came a loud voice from the throne, saying, “It is done!” ¹⁸ Then there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder and a severe earthquake.

 

The seventh seal and the seventh trumpet have the same description. The scene for the seventh seal is in heaven before the throne; One thing is sure: heaven does not change, so of course the descriptions would be similar! Events there do change.

Rev 8

^{2 "}And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them."

^3" Another angel, who had a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense to offer, with the prayers of all God’s people,on the golden altar in front of the throne. ⁴ The smoke of the incense, together with the prayers of God’s people, went up before God from the angel’s hand."

So there are two of the main events that occur with the same attributes, lightning, rumblings, thunder, earthquake and the same setting. I know you're thinking it's a stretch but it's not, the seals really mirror the trumpets i.e., The sixth seal must occur in close proximity the 7th trumpet as the description of the seventh trumpet contains,  

In Revelation 8:5, if we just look at that verse,  we see a sensor.  But in context, the sensor is gold. It is the same setting, the throne room, but at a different time. Of course the descriptions will be similar. But as i showed you before, the earthquakes are not the same earthquake. My point: just seeing something similar does not prove they are the same event.

 

Rev 11:18

" The nations were angry,
    and your wrath has come.
The time has come for judging the dead,
    and for rewarding your servants the prophets
and your people who revere your name,
    both great and small—"

At the sixth seal we also see a great earthquake, so great the mountains and islands disappeared, No, they do not disappear! They move! They change position. Did you know that the earth axis changed with that big earthquake that hit Japan and caused the tsunami? It was not much, but it caused all mountains to move. It caused everything to move. By the way, if the mountains disappeared at the 6th seal, then there would be NO HOLES or caves in the rocks for people to hide in. "

"...hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;  And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb"

Rev 6

¹² I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake.The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, ¹³ and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. ¹⁴ The heavens receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.

We see the same kind of earthquake at the seventh bowl,

Rev 16

¹⁸ Then there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder and a severe earthquake. No earthquake like it has ever occurred since mankind has been on earth, so tremendous was the quake. ¹⁹ The great city split into three parts, and the cities of the nations collapsed.

This has to be that same earthquake because if the mountains fall at the sixth seal, the cities must also collapse, meaning the seventh bowl must be poured out nearly simultaneously with the sixth seal. There is also a great hailstorm that occurs at both the seventh trumpet and the seventh bowl. Now I suppose there could be two unrelated hailstorms but with all the other similar attributes I doubt it.  It is just human reasoning. The mountains have to remain for people to be able to climb in them and call for the mountains to fall. It is NOT as severe an earthquake as the 7th vial earthquake.

So the 7th trump, the 7th bowl and the 6th seal all occur at the same time or very nearly. Conventional thought says trumps follow seals and bowls follow trumps. From the first reading of the seal we see they span all the way to the Day of the Lord at the 6th seal, which would be well after the midpoint. This means some trumps already sounded and in the case of the 5th trumpet the people of God are still on earth, sealed in their foreheads, so the Lord has not yet come to gather them. The 5th trump must therefore sound before the 6th seal.

I think there's a few more examples but this should suffice.

Revelation 18:  Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant. And there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake and a severe hailstorm.

Did you not notice that this was seen in the temple? Do you really believe earthquakes happen in the throneroom of heaven? No, this is a VISION John is watching and these things seen in the temple are showing soon to come events: in other words, prophecy. There is not quake on earth at the 7th trumpet that sounds in heaven.

You have just shown us things that appear similar. Earthquakes would look similar! But there is a difference between mountains moving, and mountains disappearing.

Edited May 31, 2017 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

20 hours ago, wingnut- said:

 

Agreed, and that time is at the very end.  There is no favoritism amongst His own people, the apostles faced death from the beginning of this age, and that will continue until the last day at His coming.

The Old Testament saints are raised "on the last day:" the very day of the 7th vial: the last day of the 70th week of Daniel. Their resurrection will cause this great earthquake, so great the mountains shake down into the earth and disappear. In Revelation this event will be at the 7th vial.

Those "in christ" will rise right when, in time, Paul tells us: as the trigger for the Day of His wrath" as seen at the 6th seal. Again there is an earthquake, and this one will be caused by the dead  in Christ rising.  In Revelation this would be a moment before the 6th seal is opened.