Could the antichrist be a Muslim

[Diaste]

1 minute ago, fixerupper said:

I don't have to go to Worthy to figure out how other people interpret scripture.  I have a simple hermeneutic and that's what I use.  If I read the works of others, I research their claims.  Just because a theory has been around for centuries doesn't mean it's right.  The only reason all of you believe Rome and the EU are involved in end-time prophecy is because that's what "the experts" have neen teaching for decades if not centuries.  I don't agree with it because the scriptural evidence isn't there.

Well said. 

[fixerupper]

1 hour ago, simplejeff said:

This was already proven completely centuries ago.

Today ?  All you will find is immense deception and 500 threads arguing something else,  distracting from the true beast.

You want proof?   It has been on this site for a long, long, time, compliments of the owner, admin, and moderators.

You can find it,  complete,  in worthychristianlibrary dot com.   (or by clicking above left on worthy network then click on the library.

No,  don't ask - it is no use to argue it in any forum / thread/ open to the world to post.   You will only get what has already been gotten - 95% deception from all the world,  and a few posting the truth...

so, again,  if you really want to know,  start reading at worthychristianlibrary,  and rejoice that the truth is know perfectly,

in line with and total harmony with all of God's Word.

What interpretation IS in harmony with all of God's Word?

It's not Europe, the local Catholic Church or priest, or altar boys that are a threat to the world today.  It's Islam.  In nearly every country on earth they are causing problems.  The Mid-East is gone and will soon fall into the prophesied men of sin.  The man of sin will save and unite the region.  And to think.  Here's a little strong delusion for you...

ISIS believes Jesus Christ will return to help them defeat the dajjal, AKA the Islamic anti-Christ.

Edited June 21, 2017 by fixerupper

[Diaste]

3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

What you really mean to say is 75-80 percent of Christendom agree with me on this....Is that it?  OK....The only Seven Kingdoms to Conquer, Rule or Enslave Israel weren't Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome and the coming Anti-Christ, EVEN THOUGH THEY WERE !!

You are so full of yourself that you can't see clearly. I don't care if those 7 kingdoms did what you say or not. The point is your contention that Rome is the "one is" is unsupported. The idea that the criteria for a beast/beast kingdom is, "because they conquered, enslaved or ruled Israel." is not biblical criteria, nor fact, nor proven by explicit verses for identification purposes. It's made up. It holds no weight. It's a pipe dream. A boondoggle. Or as the scriptures would put it, a blasphemous lie.

 Jews were not Enslaved under their Roman Rulers who destroyed the Temple and Destroyed Jerusalem.

You cite a moment in time where the Romans put down a Jewish rebellion and compare it the entire time the Romans and Jews interacted. The Jews and Romans intermingled peacefully and to great benefit of each other for 100 years before the Temple was destroyed. Even then the Jews remained in the Roman empire and were not subject to persecution until Christianity was made the official religion in the Empire, around 300 AD. Then the Jews were persecuted by Christian leaders in Rome, much like the Jews persecuted Christians before that.

Not buying that, even though what you stated is not quite what I stated. I said Conquered, ENSLAVED or Ruled. Nevertheless Rome did Conquer, Enslave via TAXES and RULED Israel. 

I believe you fell behind somewhere. The ONE IS is speaking of Rome, not a certain King per se.

How convenient, and incorrect. From Strong's, Rev 17:10, 'king'.

Strong's Concordance

basileus: a king

Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: basileus
Short Definition: a king, ruler, emperor
Definition: a king, ruler, but in some passages clearly to be translated: emperor.

A king. Not a kingdom, country, province, state, municipality, township, or village. Lets compare 'kingdom'.

Strong's Concordance

basileia: kingdom, sovereignty, royal power

Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: basileia
Short Definition: kingship, sovereignty, authority, rule, kingdom
Definition: kingship, sovereignty, authority, rule, especially of God, both in the world, and in the hearts of men; hence: kingdom, in the concrete sense

Not even close and cannot be construed as interchangeable. One is actually a KING, and the other is the concept of ruling. How do you sleep at night? So your fanciful interpretation is now proven as incorrect. You should be careful when interpreting biblical prophecy willy nilly.

God Reduced them to FIVE who had fallen because of course there is ONE KING at the helm when a BEAST POWER loses its Power, What? this makes no sense.  thus the FIVE WHO HAD FALLEN, were just speaking of Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia and Greece

You do realize that Babylon Persia and Greece are the first three empire of the Dan 2 statue? How are you adding two empires? And where is the biblical proof that allows you to add these? And don't give me the tired line, "Because they conquered, enslaved or ruled in Israel.", because it's not scripture, it's a rationale that has no premise, factual or otherwise.

 , the ONE THAT IS was Rome.....An impossibility as we see that the 7 kings from Rev 17:10 are kings and not kingdoms. So you have to alter your stance and propose another scenario that fits actual fact. and the one that is YET TO COME is the Anti-Christ. The Seven Headed Beast was reduced to KINGS so that we would know the LAST BEAST is a mere MAN not a Kingdom. Oh now we are back to kings? So you interpret basileus as kingdom for the first 7 kings in Rev 17:10 but then revert back to king when it suits your purpose? I bet you don't do that in Rev 17:12 do you?  John wrote Revelation on 90ish AD, its irrelevant Fully relevant since we are viewing kings that have fallen, one existing and the other not yet come, a prophecy for the future as we know from Rev 4:1, not the past nor the present.  who the King/Emperor was at the time, the message is ROME was the Current Beast.

 

The Little Horn arises out of Europe, out of the Fourth Beast. You are the one implying Rome is an END TIME BEAST, not me, I am not. I know full well Rome has nothing to do with the end of the age, the beast, the beast kingdom, or any other event or person as the age come to a close. the End Time Beast is the Little Horn/Anti-Christ.......A MAN. Rome was a Beast 2000 years ago. Almost All Christendom agrees that Rome was the Fourth Beast So? Talk about meaningless proof. and Jewish Scholars 2000 years ago had Rome pegged as the Fourth Beast. Again, big deal. Prophecy is written for those alive when the prophecy comes to pass. If a given prophecy came to pass 1000 years after it was given, the prophecy means nothing to those ancient people. In fact they could never accurately interpret such a prophecy as the conditions and events and people of the prophecy are for a time in the distant future, and could not occur for the ancients, and can only be known in full by the people experiencing the fulfillment.  

Nero is nothing to me. I don't eve understand why you mention him. Oh? If you have all the experience you say you have you would know authors like Hal Lindsey, and many others,  promoted the idea of 'one is' as Nero, in more than one book. Your denial is telling. The Beast ROME was not about a MAN but about a Kingdom. Daniel 2 doesn't have to connect anything, they are not the SAME STORY. Again, you don't understand the history of your own ideology.   The Daniel 2 is about Kingdoms of the Earth following Satan not God and Daniel 7 is about BEASTS Conquering Israel. Do you hear what you say? What does that have to do with anything? And in one breath you say Babylon, Persia and Greece conquered Israel but the statue isn't related even though Babylon, Persia, and Greece are named,(The ones you say did all the conquering, enslaving and ruling) while they are not named in Dan 7. Babylon is where Daniel lived when the he penned the book of his name. I would say it's not just related but paramount to understanding not only Daniel but Revelation as well. Assyria and Egypt don't have to be mentioned by Daniel. Of course not, you can just add as you need to. God sent the Angel to mention what needed to be mentioned. During Revelation the WHOLE STORY was told. Not true. There is a great deal of the story of the end of the age in several OT books. If you think Revelation tells the entire story of the end then you are shortsighted and misinformed.

The Seven Headed Beast is in the Bible, the Lion, Leopard and Bear is in Rev. 13, now add it up, since they are a part of the SEVEN HEADED BEAST then the other 4 must be just like them....that's you encoded key so to speak. The Four Beats of Daniel 7 all CONQUERED, ENSLAVED OR RULED Israel. Its for us to figure out. Why did Jesus give the Disciples Parables?  Should we just say they don't count because we had to solve the riddle?  It isn't that hard to solve. Its easy....you just have to do the homework. 

I see a lot of people who are clueless about bible prophecy. You suggesting that experience doesn't matter is kind of strange, since the bible tells us that the gray hairs = Wisdom. ? I didn't say that. This is your problem. Either you don't read the text as it's written or you have rudimentary comprehension. I said "Longevity does not equal accuracy or truth." because you think;  just because you have been a pastor for 30 years means you have all the answers. You don't. What then would you say about Jesus? He only lived for 33 years. His ministry lasted about 3 years. I suppose your experience dictates you have more answers than Jesus? Yes? No? 

Of course we will be Raptured...........before the Tribulation. Thats not even debatable to me.

Maybe not debatable but incorrect none the less.

 

[Diaste]

On 6/20/2017 at 2:32 PM, Revelation Man said:

On 6/4/2017 at 6:18 AM, Diaste said:

I think we all better take a good hard look at what's going on in the world today. 

I know many here believe at the end of the age Rome will be revived and the AC will rise from some political entity representing the RRE.

The problem with this is where do we see evidence of such a revival?

Yes, the E.U. has already become a world power, it was thought up and brought into being in Rome. 

Europe’s economic integration narrative

From the Treaties of Rome (January 1958) to the Maastricht Treaty (November 1993), Europe moved gradually but unambiguously towards closer economic integration – i.e. an ‘internal market’.

I don't understand your point at all. Its already here and you are seemingly still looking for it to arise !!

I already see it in Islam, and you really need to do the reading. 

On 25th March 1957, two treaties were signed in Rome that gave birth to the European Economic Community (EEC) and to European Atomic Energy Community (Euratom): the Treaties of Rome. The signatories of the historic agreement were Christian Pineau on behalf of France, Joseph Luns from the Netherlands, Paul Henri Spaak from Belgium, Joseph Bech  from Luxemburg, Antonio Segni from Italy and Konrad Adenauer from the Federal Republic of Germany. The Treaties were ratified by National Parliaments over the following months and came into force on 1st January 1958.

http://www.historiasiglo20.org/europe/traroma.htm

No representative of Rome signed this treaty. Do you know why it was called the Treaty of Rome? Cause that's where the heads of Sate in Europe met to debate and sign the treaty! It was not by Rome's authority nor behest. Rome is a religious entity and nothing more. Rome had no hand in ratifying the treaty or administration of the treaty. No Oversight. No authority. Bollocks. 

 

On 6/4/2017 at 6:18 AM, Diaste said:

Shouldn't we be seeing a Golden Eagle emblazoned on a building in Europe? Or on a flag? Armbands? Anything signifying the desire of a group to reorganize the Roman empire would be helpful. Maybe a political party named Roman Conservative Party, or some such? Do we hear any calls for forming a senate body in the EU to elect a leader based on the Roman model of a republic or dictatorship? And where are the remnants of the Roman political entity? Not the RCC, this is a religious entity, not a political one. I'm not seeing any such thing but if someone has, please let me know.

This kind of shows why you are having the problems you are, YOU chose to call it the Revived Roman Empire, I did not! This idea has been around for centuries. I sometimes go along with this jargon, even though I have made it abundantly clear that these two BEASTS are Unique Beasts unto themselves, one only Arises from the others FOOTPRINT, but hes is DIFFERENT FROM THE FIRST !! The Roman Beast is Dead forever more. There is another Final Beast that shall Arise out of his head, IN EUROPE, and he will be different in that he will be a MAN BEAST, and there will be no Kings but him, once he dies his Kingdom is over. You seemingly think because he Arises out of his Head, Europe it has to be a RRE, it doesn't, it ain't and it never will be the Roman Beast. That's Wrong Thinking. I don't think that. The Pretrib doctrine states this. I know Rome has never been a part of any end of the age event, kingdom. My above quote is satire, Mr. Experience. Probably a little more than sarcastic. 

Daniel clearly tells us this is a different Beast that arises in the End Times. The Fourth Beast and the LITTLE HORN are two separate Beasts who arise out of the same Land Mass, Europe. Its really pretty simple, just two verses is all that needs to be read to understand this.

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth (ROME) Nope. Islam., which shall be diverse from all kingdoms (Before it arose, Babylon, Persia and Greece), and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another (Little Horn) shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

The Fourth Beast is Rome, he is Different from the First Three Beasts or ALL THE KINGDOMS before him. (Pax-Romanus). Bet you don't know what that is. He shall devour the Whole Earth which means all the Land Spoken of, just like Nebuchadnezzar was said to have Conquered all the Whole Earth, just like the He Goat was said to conquer the Whole Earth.....MANY.....Jump to the conclusion that this has to be an End Time Event because Rome couldn't conquer the Whole Earth, when the word used has been proven time and again not to mean the WHOLE EARTH,Oh? What about the following?

Strong's Concordance

kol: the whole, all

Original Word: כֹּל
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: kol
Phonetic Spelling: (kole)
Short Definition: all

NAS Exhaustive Concordance

Word Origin
(Aramaic) corresponding to kol
Definition
the whole, all

It sure looks like it means the entire earth.

thus they change the Fourth Beast, erroneously, to and End Time Beast and have done away with the Little Horns unique nature as being the Last Beast, different from the Fourth Beast. .Is this supposed to be your interpretation of the above verse from Daniel?

Picking back up, he Devours the Whole Earth....then 10 Horns arise and a LITTLE HORN arises with them or amongst them. This Little Horn IS AN End Time Beast because when he dies he is cast straight into hell by Jesus/Ancient One (Dan. 7:11) This Little horn is DIFFERENT FROM THE FIRST !!! Not different from ALL but from the FIRST.....Meaning the First Kingdom that arose from Rome, this Little Horn will be a Single Dictator, he will not share is power with anyone. Excuse me? The Roman dictators didn't share power either. How is this then different? The difference is in the type of kingdom. Babylon Persia and Greece were secular empires. The last one is based in religion. This is the difference.   Yet he is a BEAST unto himself, hence you have Seven Heads, Egypt, Assyria, From Daniel on...Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome and the ANTI-CHRIST. The Fourth Kingdom and the Little Horn are two Separate Beasts who Arise out of the Same Footprint. 

 

On 6/4/2017 at 6:18 AM, Diaste said:

The facts are Radical Islam is on the rise. This theocracy is bent on killing or enslaving everyone refusing to convert. They slaughter men, women and children all over the world by any means necessary. They use vehicles to mow down anyone not them and use beheadings to terrorize everyone, and they increase in number. Their numbers increase in populated areas not just on the battlefield. This is worse and more difficult than fighting against an army in a defined theater. The army of radical Islam is spread far and wide in many western cities and it's much larger than most know. 

We have already been invaded by enormous sleeper cells just waiting for the moment when their leader rises to world prominence. 

That leader is going to be Islamic. They are well prepared and in place to carry out the commands of this coming leader. We all to need to be prepared ourselves.

You can't fit "FEELINGS" toward scriptures, that is not how it works. Its irrelevant how many people Islam has killed, how radical they are, how crazy they are, how barbaric they are, they are not named in Scripture as any Beast. And they can not be the Little Horn, as per the Scriptures. They have no power to conquer, they are all weak Militarily speaking they can't even conquer Israel, thus just as Daniel 8:25 says, he will Destroy via a Peace/Security Deal. The Islamic nation will never trick Israel into a Peace Deal that threatens their Security. That defies common sense. BUT....a European Leader could force a deal between all the Parties, after he.... lets says WIPES OUT Radical Islam !! This causes Israel to trust him somewhat, and he forces a Deal between Israel and the Muslims/Arabs. Its like NATO, he orders the Islamic Nations to DISARM or Else, them he requires a Treaty where he himself alone guarantees the Security/Peace of the Region, no weapons in any Arab Nations or in Israel, Europe is the the what the USA now is to Europe via NATO. 

This is where most that think like you go wrong. The beast is not coming to power through secular means. 

Rev 13

³ And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

⁴ And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Only after the beast suffers the deadly head wound and is empowered by the dragon does the beast rise. The beast is revived and given power by the dragon and the world worships both the beast and the dragon. This means the world sees the soon to be beast die, revive and be empowered. The world also sees the dragon. Notice how scripture says, "And they worshiped the dragon..."?  Means they can see the dragon. If the beast was going to come to power through some world consortium, one would think scripture could mention it right here; right where scripture tells of the rise of the beast. Let me tell you how this goes:

The Islamic beast is alive right now and is engaged in battle in the Mideast. ISIS is almost defeated on the battlefield but the point of this is to trap the leaders, arrest them and bring them to trial. The one who will be the beast will be convicted and executed, likely by the Saudis through a beheading. The whole world will see the capture, arrest, trial and execution. A short time later he will rise through the power of the dragon. This is the beginning of his reign and just prior to the start of the last week. Now with great supernatural power, and the false prophet at his side deceiving the world, he will make the 7 year peace treaty with Israel and allow Israel to build their beloved temple. This will infuriate many in the Muslim world and they will attempt to attack Israel. While the beast is defeating those who attack Israel to stop Temple construction, per Daniel, the two witnesses prophesy in Israel for the first half of the week. At or near to the A of D the beast kills the two witnesses and sits in the newly dedicated Temple declaring himself god. Great tribulation begins here and the false prophet commands all to make idols of the image of the beast. I suspect sometime around three years later Jesus appears to gather the elect, shortening the days of great tribulation, and bringing the wrath of God on the whole earth. 

 

The Muslims will never rule the World,. Well, they already have ruled the world, pushing the great Roman empire all the way back to the fortified cities in Asia Minor. they will never be trusted, Not about trust. It's about power. It's always about power and authority. The one with the most power rules and the beast will have the power of the dragon to defeat those who come against Israel in the first half of the week, while Israel is rebuilding the Temple. If it was about trust the treaty would never get done. Any leader that represents one side will never be trusted by the other side. And Israel will never trust any world body like the UN, as past history shows the UN is always against Israel. And the EU? It's in full breakdown mode and  has no military to enforce the peace. Do you know what the EU is? it's an economic entity, not a civil nor military group. Basically powerless on the world stage except for the markets and the Euro.   but Satan will confuse many via this Muslim angle. But it doesn't fit and never will. .It really fits several prophecies very well, fulfilling prophecy in Daniel in current affairs. You are just blind to this.  These "Sleeper" cells you speak of will be the reason this new European President (Anti-Christ/Beast) comes against Radical Islam. Satan is of course BRILLIANT, he will use that which he has brought forth, to give HIS MAN CRED. He will gain much trust by destroying Radical Islam.

But the Beast is the Little Horn that Arises out of Europe. No. From the desert sands of the Mideast somewhere around Babylon. 

Edited Tuesday at 02:42 PM by Revelation Man

 

[Revelation Man]

14 hours ago, fixerupper said:

What does it matter that Greece conquered Rome.  Using that method we can point the finger at any ancient empire.  I don't follow your point because I don't believe it.  

Greece didn't Conquer Rome............Rome Conquered Greece. You stated, and I quote "The Grecian empire never conquered Europe.  It surprises me that you believe that. (I NEVER SAD THAT, so I straightened it out !! ) Habakkuk says God would raise up the Babylonians in the last days, not the Romans...

Babylon will never inhabited again, you better go read the Scriptures in Jeremiah. God sees the Nations that come against Israel in the 6th Via as BABYLON....I posted the verse....You chose to ignore it. (Revelation 16:19).  Babylon is a Metaphor, not a CITY.  

 

Its pretty evident what Babylon is and what the Harlot is, they are two different entities.

15 hours ago, fixerupper said:

I forgot to mention....

The number of the verses in the Koran according to the scholars:
Ibn-i Abbas (ra): 6616,

As I stated before, I don't worry about an UNGODLY RELIGION....We are given power over all Demons.

God Bless

[Revelation Man]

8 hours ago, BobRyan said:

I think everyone probably agrees that the term "antichrist" only occurs in the Bible - in the books of  1John  and 2John. Right?

So then are these texts the focus of this thread - or is this thread simply "all over the map" with guesswork on the topic?

I have not read all the posts on it - but they appear to be guessing in almost every location but 1 John and 2 John. Is that right?

The word Anti-Christ is used instead of Christendom trying to use 7-10 names for him, the Assyrian, the Little Horn, the Beast, the Man of Sin, the Wicked One the Anti-Christ etc. all. And he is called the Anti-Christ by John ONCE.

1 John 2:18 - Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come,................. even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

THAT ANTI-CHRIST is the Beast, Little Horn and is spoken of in the SINGULAR who is to come..........Even though many anti-christs are already here. So this Anti-Christ is the Man of Sin, the Beast, the Little Horn. 

Thus we call him the Anti-Christ.......I usually say Anti-Christ/Beast/Little Horn.

[Revelation Man]

7 hours ago, fixerupper said:

All I basically get from you is that everyone is wrong except yourself.  Step up to the plate and show me HOW you attach Rome to any of this. Show me not only the verse, but what it is in the verse that implicates Rome.  

Quote

All you get from me is the Facts.....once the Holy Spirit reveals something to me I ain't changing. The fact is I have already told you. It would be a wasted effort to show you again, because you already know 100 percent that he is going to be an Islamic leader, even though he isn't. He arises out of the Fourth Beasts Head. If you can't figure out plain speak from the bible, there is nothing I can do to help you. 

7 hours ago, fixerupper said:

Where does the bible say the man of sin will be born in Greece and come to power in Europe?  What verses and what words in those verses implicate a Turkish man coming to power in Europe?  I say NOT ONE VERSE implicates EUROPE!  Show me how you come up with EUROPE!

Quote

I gave you this link about 3 TIMES........So I will just post it that way you will understand my understanding.

The Birth Place of the Anti-Christ Revealed

Isaiah says the Anti-Christ is an Assyrian.The Anti-Christ is said to come to power via the fourth beast in the last days per Daniel Chapter Seven. The Anti-Christ is also said to arise out of the Grecian empire in the last days, so how do we reconcile these different understandings ?

This is established fairly easily, Daniel did say the understandings would be bound up until the end. The Anti-Christ in Daniel chapters seven and eight is shown, if read properly, to arise out of two kingdoms at once, but how can this be ?

Daniel chapter seven is fairly straightforward, we understand this to be about the four beast systems, the fourth beast is where the little horn (Anti-Christ) will arise out of, most everyone understands the fourth beast to have been Rome, but in the last days/end times this has to be the European Union.

Now Daniel chapter eight is explained in detail by Gabriel the angel, was the he goat (Alexander the Great) conquering Persia ( the Ram ) and Gabriel interpreted this dream for Daniel.

Daniel 8:19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.

 We should note, this is speaking of the end time, it is not speaking of Antiochus who came before Jesus was even born. The word Indignation means: ( Greek Word za'am meaning Gods Fury at Sin) so at the Last End of Indignation means right before Gods Judgment of Sin/Vials or Bowls of Gods Wrath (Revelation).

20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia. 21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king. 22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power. ( The Four Generals that stood up in Alexanders stead were Ptolemy , Seleucus , Cassander and Lysimachus. )

23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

This is clearly speaking about the end times/last days when the sins have come full/ bowls of Gods wrath, a fierce king shall arise out of one of the four kingdoms that stood up in Alexander the Greats Stead, speaking dark sentences (understanding Riddles and conundrums) and he comes to power. 

24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: (Satan gives him his power) and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people. 25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, (he claims to Be God) and by peace shall destroy many:(Through a Peace/Security Treaty he deceives many) he shall also stand up against the Prince (Jesus) of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

 Jesus destroys the Anti-Christ his kings and their armies without hand ( with the Sword of the Spirit/Holy Spirit) by the countenance of his coming, Amen. This guy magnifies himself and says in the temple of God, I am God !! 

Now,  so many people say this is about Antiochus, so I always feel the need to prove that this is about the end times, when Gods wrath is come full. This is about the Little Horn/Anti-Christ. And he arises out of their kingdom in the last days, so in essence he arises out of one of the Four Generals kingdoms in the last days, but which one ? Well, since the Anti-Christ arises out of the fourth beast also, then this other Kingdom has to lie within the borders of the European Union. Only Cassander's kingdom of Greece is in the European Union !! The "Assyrian" arising from Greece would be very understandable since Greece shares a border with Turkey, and many, many Turks live in Greece, so the Assyrian Anti-Christ is born in Greece, and comes to power in Greece, then in the European Union. What does John say in Revelation about the Beast that arises out of the Sea ? By the way, he was on Patmos, a small Greek Island when he saw this vision.

Rev. 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

The Main body is described by John as like a leopard !!

Put it all together, the "Assyrian" Anti-Christ is born in Greece, of Turkish parents or grandparents , he comes to power in the European Union.

This is where the Anti-Christ is from.  

[Revelation Man]

20 hours ago, fixerupper said:

Habakkuk added the Babylonians.  Ezekiel 38-39 and Psalm 83 addaed Arab and Islamic nations.  I didn't.  Maybe you should care about Muhammad.  He has a following of 1.7 billion people who are bent on world domination through violence and demographics.  There's no doubt in my mind that locust represent the Arabs.

Quote

But you ADDED.....ASSUME.......IMPLY that the Anti-Christ is a Muslim. Babylon is used as a Metaphor for the Kingdoms of the World. I gave you the Scripture a few times, Rev. 16:19 is Jesus destroying the NATIONS that come against Israel and God at Armageddon, and he calls them BABYLON !! Babylon was the Head of Gold, the Statue will be Destroyed by God via the Rock that was cut out of the Mountain. Babylon as a City will NEVER be inhabited again.

Isaiah 13:19 And Babylon, the beauty of kingdoms, the glory of the Chaldeans' pride, Will be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. 20 It will never be inhabited or lived in from generation to generation; Nor will the Arab pitch his tent there, Nor will shepherds make their flocks lie down there. 

So is Babylon going to be a Great power again or did Isaiah via God LIE? Babylon will NEVER be a power again. When Babylon is used its used as a Metaphor. 

The Kings of the East are ARABS.......That doesn't mean the Anti-Christ is, it only mean he SEDUCES the Kings of the East. 

Rev. 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. 13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

So the Kings of the East are not a part of the Anti-Christ and False Prophets Kingdoms IF you read between the lines, they had to be deceived by Demonic entities to join in the fight, the way had to be prepared, the Anti-Christs 10 Kings will fight with him, they have given their powers over unto him, so says Rev. 17. 

Islam will be destroyed by the Anti-Christ. You argue against your own point(s) and don't even realize it. You say that Islam is the Harlot (Its is the biggest part today) but then you seem to say that the Anti-Christ and his Kings WORK WITH Islam and their hordes, even though Rev. 17:16 says the Kings in League with the Anti-Christ HATE the Harlot and Destroy her.....Rev. 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. 

So these Kings of the Anti-Christ KILL OFF the Harlot..........So which is it? Does the Anti-Christ lead the Islamic Hordes or does he KILL THEM OFF like Scriptures say? I will go with the Scriptures, that's my point to you, I didn't just come up with answers as you seem to suppose, I went through every verse and put it together. NO GUESSING. 

The Locust are let out of the Bottomless pit, they are Demonic Spirits, Apollyon is a Demonic Spirit, as a matter of fact he is the 8th King of Rev. 17. He is/was over the Seven Beast Heads spoken of. (Six plus the coming Anti-Christ/Beast)

Rev. 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. 9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. 2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. 3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

11 And they had a king over them, which is the ANGEL (Demon) of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon. (8TH KING)

Two-Witnesses....REVELATION 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

7 And when  they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Do you see that brother? I am not playing around, I have done my due diligence with MUCH STUDY. It all ties together, the Locusts are Demonic Beings. Apollyon is the 8th Beast, he is over the 7 BEASTS (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome and the Anti-Christ and his 10 Kings......Or the Seven Headed Beast !! ) He is the one that Kills the Two-witnesses. Muslims are not in the Bottomless pit, but I can tell you who is.........Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. (They are RELEASED on that Great Day of Judgment, a 3 1/2 year period of Gods Wrath.)

20 hours ago, fixerupper said:

I've never read much from either of those two.  But I bet they're mostly right and you're mostly wrong!

Quote

You wouldn't know....I understand that much

Edited June 22, 2017 by Revelation Man

[Revelation Man]

16 hours ago, Diaste said:

You are so full of yourself that you can't see clearly. I don't care if those 7 kingdoms did what you say or not. The point is your contention that Rome is the "one is" is unsupported. The idea that the criteria for a beast/beast kingdom is, "because they conquered, enslaved or ruled Israel." is not biblical criteria, nor fact, nor proven by explicit verses for identification purposes. It's made up. It holds no weight. It's a pipe dream. A boondoggle. Or as the scriptures would put it, a blasphemous lie.

 

I am full of the Truth.....I am not ashamed of the Truth. Sir it is supported, that's why they are NAMED BEASTS is Daniel. Its amazing you can not pick up the common thread. God is a God of Symmetrical doings. And ROME WAS the Kingdom ruling over Israel at the time Jesus died/was Crucified and at the time John wrote the book of Revelation. That's just a fact. If you can't grasp why they are called Beasts then I can't help you any further in that endeavor. God gives us the clear information, but like Jesus told his disciples, its not given that all people should understand. 

16 hours ago, Diaste said:

You cite a moment in time where the Romans put down a Jewish rebellion and compare it the entire time the Romans and Jews interacted. The Jews and Romans intermingled peacefully and to great benefit of each other for 100 years before the Temple was destroyed. Even then the Jews remained in the Roman empire and were not subject to persecution until Christianity was made the official religion in the Empire, around 300 AD. Then the Jews were persecuted by Christian leaders in Rome, much like the Jews persecuted Christians before that.

 

If Mexico made us pay taxes to them for 100's of years we would be Conquered/Ruled by them. The Jews would not have willingly allowed Rome to rule them, they could not stop them. You even suggesting otherwise is just way out there to me. There was NO BEAST after Israel as a Nation was Dispersed. All of the fudging makes no sense. Rome was the Fourth Beast. That's the facts, and the facts will never change IMHO. You guys have to try and FUDGE EVERYTHING to get an Islamic Beast !!

16 hours ago, Diaste said:

How convenient, and incorrect. From Strong's, Rev 17:10, 'king'.

 

Until you understand what Rev. 17 does by Reducing the Kingdoms to KINGS, so everyone would know the LAST BEAST is not going to bE like Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome, the LAST BEAST is going to be a MAN............Until you get that part of my thought process I don't think you will get my overall point on this. No use going through it again.

16 hours ago, Diaste said:

You do realize that Babylon Persia and Greece are the first three empire of the Dan 2 statue? How are you adding two empires? And where is the biblical proof that allows you to add these? And don't give me the tired line, "Because they conquered, enslaved or ruled in Israel.", because it's not scripture, it's a rationale that has no premise, factual or otherwise.

 

The Daniel Statue of METAL(S) and the BEAST Kingdoms are NOT the same in what God is conveying unto us, even though they cover the same Kingdoms. The Statue Represents all the Kingdoms of this Evil world with Babylon being the Head of Gold and on down to the Iron and Clay base, this represents the World Governance WITHOUT GOD.........The Beats Represents Seven Kingdoms that tried to Conquer Israel. That's why we have a SEVEN HEADED BEAST. We don't need the Statue. Rev. 16:19 is THE STATUE.......Babylon is Destroyed. Revelation 14, 16 and 18 are all the Same Event. Babylon FALLS.....Rev. 14 is the Harvest/Wine-press, Rev. 16 is Jesus Destroying the Anti-Christ and thus BABYLON and Rev. 18 is only BABYLON (World Governance) FALLING to Gods Plagues (Seals, Trumpets and Vials). 

In Rev. 13 and 17 we see brother, that the Beast is a SEVEN HEADED BEAST, in Daniel 7 we see the Four Beasts all Conquer Israel. We understand the coming Anti-Christ will Conquer Israel, we also know that Israel was as DEAD MEN'S BONES for 2000 years, thus they were not a Nation, thus they could not be Conquered, Thus there could be NO BEAST for 2000 years, but then Alas....Israel is REBORN (Can these bones live again Son of Man ? YES THEY CAN AND DID...Amen) So now we can have the Final Beast come forth or the Anti-Christ. So finding the OTHER TWO HEADS is not that hard. We understand that Israel was in Bondage in Egypt for MANY, MANY Years and we understand that Assyria took the 10 Tribes Away. These are just simple facts brother. Its a SEVEN HEADED BEAST. It's not adding, its understanding the RIDDLES just like the Disciples understood the parables. The Angel in Rev. 17 said he was going to show us the Mystery. That's what he did. The Seven Kings were the Seven Heads of the Beast and 5 HAD FALLEN before Rome or the ONE THAT WAS.....Its just not that difficult to figure out who the 5 were.

16 hours ago, Diaste said:

An impossibility as we see that the 7 kings from Rev 17:10 are kings and not kingdoms. So you have to alter your stance and propose another scenario that fits actual fact.

Once again, this doesn't seem to be registering with you. That's not to be critical, you have to get what the Angel is doing, he is telling you the MYSTERY of the WOMAN (Harlot) and the BEAST She Rides. So the Seven Kings are the SEVEN HEADED BEAST Explained......Rev. 17:7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the BEAST that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads.....AND ten horns.

So there is NO MYSTERY, the BEAST is explained unto us. The SEVEN HEADS become SEVEN KINGS.......Mountains are nothing except a MISNOMER.....It says oros or one that arises above the plains, the very next verse speaks about KINGS so the SEVEN MOUNTAINS are actually SEVEN RULERS who arise.

Rev. 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads ARE seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. { The Harlot was RIDING the back of the Seven Headed Beast. SITTING ON SEVEN MOUNTAINS which are Seven Rulers or KINGS !! SEE BELOW V. 10 }

10 And there are seven kings:( The proper Translation should be And THEY ARE ALSO Seven Kings) five are fallen, and one is (ROME), and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. { So the Seven Headed Beast Is Seven RULERS or Mountains and they are ALSO SEVEN KINGS. Five have Fallen, ONE IS (Rome), and one is YET TO COME. }

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. {Apollyon the Demon} 12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

The Mystery of the Seven Headed Beast is told, and the Angel Reduces the Seven Kingdoms to KINGS THAT HAVE FALLEN....Egypt had a KING over them of course when they FELL....So did Assyria...so did Babylon (Belshazzar)....so did Persia....So did Greece so FIVE KINGS HAD FALLEN....God has a way of doing things that seem out of sorts, but they are always SPOT ON because He is perfect. FIVE KINGS FELL Well yes, that's TRUE..........ONE IS........Some King/Emperor had to be ruling when Rome was the BEAST when John wrote Revelation and one is YET TO COME..............The Anti-Christ/Little Horn. So God REDUCED the Kingdoms to KINGS THAT HAVE FALLEN in order to let us know the LAST BEAST wold be a MAN !! 

It takes the Holy Spirit to understand these deep things of God, and He has indeed started to give us these deep truths, be we can't allow our own opinions and men's traditions to keep us from these deep truths. Amen.

16 hours ago, Diaste said:

Oh now we are back to kings? So you interpret basileus as kingdom for the first 7 kings in Rev 17:10 but then revert back to king when it suits your purpose? I bet you don't do that in Rev 17:12 do you?  

I could care less about basileius, he is not important to my understanding. As per Rev 17:12 that is not relevant. The SEVEN KINGS are the Seven Beast Heads............The 10 Kings are ON the Seventh Head. QUESTION...........Where is the 11th HORN of Daniel? The Little Horn is Supposed to arise with the 10 but he is NEVER mentioned in Revelation !! There is ONLY 10. That's because the Little Horn is the Seventh Head of the Beast !!! Boom.............Thus the 10 Horns has nothing to do with the Seven Heads, they arise with the Seventh Head. But the Seven Kings spoken of is the SEVEN HEADED BEAST broken down to Kings. Six are Dead and Gone, the LAST Beast Head is the Anti-Christ, the 10 KINGS RULE WITH HIM for.............ONE HOUR.

Rev. 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

16 hours ago, Diaste said:

Fully relevant since we are viewing kings that have fallen, one existing and the other not yet come, a prophecy for the future as we know from Rev 4:1, not the past nor the present. 

Its not Relevant because its Irrelevant who the King was when John wrote the book of Revelation, just like its irrelevant whom the 5 Kings that had fallen were. THE WHOLE POINT was the Last Beast is going to be a MAN....A KING...Not a Kingdom like the others, hence this BEAST will be different from the FIRST BEAST (Rome) whose head he arose from. 

16 hours ago, Diaste said:

I am not. I know full well Rome has nothing to do with the end of the age, the beast, the beast kingdom, or any other event or person as the age come to a close. 

Yes...you implied that was my understanding thus it was you implying it and not me saying it. That was my point. Rome was the Fourth Beast. The Little Horn arises out of the Fourth Beast 2000 years later, he is the 5th Beast in realty and the 7th Beast Head of Rev. 13 and 17. 

16 hours ago, Diaste said:

So? Talk about meaningless proof. and Jewish Scholars 2000 years ago had Rome pegged as the Fourth Beast. Again, big deal. Prophecy is written for those alive when the prophecy comes to pass. If a given prophecy came to pass 1000 years after it was given, the prophecy means nothing to those ancient people. In fact they could never accurately interpret such a prophecy as the conditions and events and people of the prophecy are for a time in the distant future, and could not occur for the ancients, and can only be known in full by the people experiencing the fulfillment.  

So........Everyone disagrees with you, great scholars that have put in years of research, Jewish Scholars, the Holy Spirit leads me unto this understanding that I espouse. I truly can't grasp anyone not understanding Rome is the Fourth Beast. Just being honest. I know some don't and I know why they think this, buts its straining at a gnat to me. 

 

16 hours ago, Diaste said:

Oh? If you have all the experience you say you have you would know authors like Hal Lindsey, and many others,  promoted the idea of 'one is' as Nero, in more than one book. Your denial is telling.

He COULD HAVE BEEN but the point is it doesn't matter. I don't remember Hal saying that but he could have, Hal had a lot of fresh ideas in the 70's and is a good man, but nowadays things are moving in a different direction. Though he was right about the European Common Market and many other things. The Point is it doesn't matter who the King was....God was only reducing the BEAST KINGDOMS to Kings to let us know the LAST BEAST was a MAN. Revelation is said to have been written in 90 AD or later, but like I stated, whoever was King was is IRRELEVANT to my understandings. You're not understanding the point seems Telling also.

16 hours ago, Diaste said:

Do you hear what you say? What does that have to do with anything? And in one breath you say Babylon, Persia and Greece conquered Israel but the statue isn't related even though Babylon, Persia, and Greece are named,(The ones you say did all the conquering, enslaving and ruling) while they are not named in Dan 7. Babylon is where Daniel lived when the he penned the book of his name. I would say it's not just related but paramount to understanding not only Daniel but Revelation as well

I can't make you understand it.......In Daniel 2 they are named after precious metals in Daniel 7 they are called BEASTS....One Dream was by Nebuchadnezzar and the other was by Daniel. Do you really not get that they are different dreams? 

16 hours ago, Diaste said:

? I didn't say that. This is your problem. Either you don't read the text as it's written or you have rudimentary comprehension. I said "Longevity does not equal accuracy or truth." because you think;  just because you have been a pastor for 30 years means you have all the answers. You don't. What then would you say about Jesus? He only lived for 33 years. His ministry lasted about 3 years. I suppose your experience dictates you have more answers than Jesus? Yes? No? 

Implication is the same......I can't make your understanding of this come to you, God alone gives that. I understand what the Holy Spirit is doing in my life. I can only follow the Master. You can believe as you will but it will never change my understanding. And Jesus has always been around.

16 hours ago, Diaste said:

Not true. There is a great deal of the story of the end of the age in several OT books. If you think Revelation tells the entire story of the end then you are shortsighted and misinformed.

That is not what I stated, that's what you HEARD.............I stated in Rev. God chose to tell about all the BEASTS that conquered Israel. There were SIX.........And a Seventh to come......Those are FACTS and they can't be denied. 

16 hours ago, Diaste said:

21 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Maybe not debatable but incorrect none the less.

 

SURE....I noticed the same thing about people over and over, if they are off on the Rapture.....everything else is off it seems. 

 

Edited June 22, 2017 by Revelation Man

[Revelation Man]

16 hours ago, Diaste said:

I already see it in Islam, and you really need to do the reading. 

 

Satan's deception at work.........Head Fake. Even though it fits NO SCRIPTURES. 

 

16 hours ago, Diaste said:

No representative of Rome signed this treaty. Do you know why it was called the Treaty of Rome? Cause that's where the heads of Sate in Europe met to debate and sign the treaty! It was not by Rome's authority nor behest. Rome is a religious entity and nothing more. Rome had no hand in ratifying the treaty or administration of the treaty. No Oversight. No authority. Bollocks. 

 

No Big Deal...........the Little Horn arises out of the FOURTH BEAST.......Its not going to change.

16 hours ago, Diaste said:

I don't think that. The Pretrib doctrine states this. I know Rome has never been a part of any end of the age event, kingdom. My above quote is satire, Mr. Experience. Probably a little more than sarcastic. 

...........................The Holy Spirit isn't amused. I don't think He changed his mind.

16 hours ago, Diaste said:

Bet you don't know what that is. 

My IQ is only 184.............I probably don't, even though I wrote about it as a reference. 

16 hours ago, Diaste said:

Oh? What about the following?

Strong's Concordance

kol: the whole, all

Original Word: כֹּל
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: kol
Phonetic Spelling: (kole)
Short Definition: all

NAS Exhaustive Concordance

Word Origin
(Aramaic) corresponding to kol
Definition
the whole, all

It sure looks like it means the entire earth.

So when it was used and Nebuchadnezzar was said to have CONQUERED THE WHOLE EARTH.........Did he? No he couldn't have. I have done an in depth word study on the words ARA and KOL..........Lets see if my understanding PREVAILS.

Daniel 4:1 Nebuchadnezzar the king, unto all people, nations, and languages, that dwell in all the earth; Peace be multiplied unto you. { ITS NOT ALL THE EARTH........KOL was used here, it cant really mean ALL THE EARTH can it?  ARA was used for Earth and it means the WHOLE GROUND SPOKEN OF........1) earth, world, ground........So Kol is used here and it means ALL THE GROUND BEING SPOKEN ABOUT........Doesn't that FIT? It sure doesn't mean the WHOLE EARTH !!! Nebuchadnezzar was a mighty ruler, but he Never sailed to the Americas. YOU SEE WHY YOU HAVE TO USE CONTEXT? } 

Daniel 4:11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth: { AGAIN, this can not mean ALL THE EARTH........Even though KOL is used here. NOW CAN IT? }

Dan. 4:20 The tree that thou sawest, which grew, and was strong, whose height reached unto the heaven, and the sight thereof to all the earth;  { SAME HERE........KOL.....Can't mean ALL THE EARTH because no one had discovered the Americas !!! }

Daniel 6:25 Then king Darius wrote unto all people, nations, and languages, that dwell in all the earth; Peace be multiplied unto you. {{ Again KOL is used and ARA for earth. it can't mean ALL THE EARTH CAN IT? ..............LOGIC........... }} 

Now it becomes CLEAR why Rome did not have to DEVOUR the WHOLE EARTH and thus it Couldn't be Rome according to many,  all because they haven't put their homework in. So YES Rome could be the Fourth Beast because the WHOLE EARTH doesn't really mean the WHOLE EARTH does it?  It means ALL THE EARTH SPOKEN OF !!

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, (ROME) and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. { It is Rome, because it doesn't really mean the WHOLE EARTH !!! }

Daniel 8:5 And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes. { Did Alexander the Great Conquer the WHOLE EARTH? NO Of course not. I told you it did not mean the WHOLE EARTH and I told you I had researched it in depth. Now I give you a demonstration. It takes a lot of homework, I don't just say things for no reason brother. } 

So KOL and ARA together do not always mean the WHOLE EARTH, they really mean ALL THE EARTH BEING SPOKEN OF.

 

16 hours ago, Diaste said:

Excuse me? The Roman dictators didn't share power either. How is this then different? The difference is in the type of kingdom. Babylon Persia and Greece were secular empires. The last one is based in religion. This is the difference.  

They had MANY EMPERORS............This LAST BEAST will be the ONLY KING, when he dies it will be over. Islam will be destroyed by the Anti-Christ.

16 hours ago, Diaste said:

This is where most that think like you go wrong. The beast is not coming to power through secular means. 

 

Hes a Geo Political Beast.

16 hours ago, Diaste said:

No. From the desert sands of the Mideast somewhere around Babylon. 

Babylon will never be inhabited. Islam will be Destroyed. The Anti-Christ will demand worship. Most of the Billions that die will be the Islamic horde, The Church is in Heaven, and Israel is being protected. 

Edited June 22, 2017 by Revelation Man