simplejeff Posted November 10, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted November 10, 2017 Gentiles often never learn the truth. (according to all Scripture, and Jesus Own Words) Some are deceived by demons, willingly , and later unwillingly, wittingly and unwittingly, learning doctrines opposed to Jesus, contrary to Scripture, but "close enough" for them to grasp hold and accept them without knowing they grabbed a counterfeit, or are controlled by a demon. i.e the deceptions and the false gospels abound all around us and around the world. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted November 10, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,605 Content Per Day: 3.97 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted November 10, 2017 When quoting the Fathers, make sure you have the original undoctored words. No father condoned doing away with the Sabbath as did no apostle. They warned only about Judaizers and told them to remove the Sabbath burden of the law so they could keep the Sabbath in harmony. Much of what the fathers wrote has been added to or misquoted deliberately. If you are thinking of the eighth day reference, then that is the circumcision of the resurrection and new beginnings of the Christian life, not the 8th day of the week (1st day). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted November 10, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted November 10, 2017 Best still to stick simply with Scripture, as the ecf were often wrong, and/or used to promote what is wrong, even right up until today, and until Jesus Returns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted November 10, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,605 Content Per Day: 3.97 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted November 10, 2017 1 minute ago, simplejeff said: Best still to stick simply with Scripture, as the ecf were often wrong, and/or used to promote what is wrong, even right up until today, and until Jesus Returns. However, they were instrumental in 'choosing' the canon, and it was quite a fight of personality and contemporary thought. If revelations had been left out and Enoch in its place, then things might be different today. We would be castigated for reading Revelations instead.. But Saul said, before the canon, all scripture is beneficial for teaching and admonition etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted November 10, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted November 10, 2017 And as others have shown from many Scriptures, Yahweh is the Guard, Yahweh is the Source, Yahweh Provided outside of and instead of and Sovereignly Himself all the Scriptures - HIS WORD BREATHED BY HIM to His Called and Chosen Brethren unknown to the enemy (and/or never approved by the enemy of Christ). The Authority, the Accomplishment, the Fullness, all is from and of Yahweh, not those men who are not reliable witnesses, not by the desire of the flesh, nor of blood, nor of mankind, but BY THE WILL OF THE FATHER in HEAVEN as HE SAYS. Yes, there is always a lot of other 'trust' placed in men/flesh/ man's system by those who don't know, (most all people), Rather Yahweh Divinely Guarded and Kept His Word, (most importanly and least understood perhaps: especially as He put TORAH in the hearts of all those He Called and He Chose, which no man can get to, purchase, or change) ..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted November 10, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,128 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,855 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted November 10, 2017 4 hours ago, Abdicate said: Neither does not lying, cheating, cussing, but we don't do those either... so why single out the 4th commandment to dismiss? Despite everything naysayers push, to "keep" the Sabbath is just to set apart the day dedicated entirely to God and rest. That's it. That's what the commandment states. As for the government of Israel, they had to do a litany of stuff which never applied to the average Joe anyway. In other words, God's asking for just over a 14% tithe of your time. Malachi 3:7-9 (KJV) Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return? Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. If this was for the Jews alone, why pass around the "tithes and offering" plates at Christian gatherings? We have tens of thousands of denominations because of the fact people pick and choose scripture. and I would say that your entire life is dedicated to Jesus and he is our rest..... and it's not one day a week, it's every day no matter where you are and what you might be doing... The people in the Old Testament days of Moses did not have the Holy Spirit living within them and they needed things that we do not in this present age..... if you have the Holy Spirit you don't need a day t ponder on God for you live with him every second of your life. Understand that I don't have a problem with the ten commandments if that is what you want..... but if you make it a salvation issue, it's not a good thing. You can do all the ten commandments faithfully including the Sabbath all your life and still go to hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted November 10, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted November 10, 2017 4 hours ago, Abdicate said: Neither does not lying, cheating, cussing, but we don't do those either... so why single out the 4th commandment to dismiss? Despite everything naysayers push, to "keep" the Sabbath is just to set apart the day dedicated entirely to God and rest. That's it. That's what the commandment states. As for the government of Israel, they had to do a litany of stuff which never applied to the average Joe anyway. In other words, God's asking for just over a 14% tithe of your time. Malachi 3:7-9 (KJV) Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return? Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. If this was for the Jews alone, why pass around the "tithes and offering" plates at Christian gatherings? We have tens of thousands of denominations because of the fact people pick and choose scripture. Yes, Scripture is clear, of course. Oh, but not nearly to most people..... of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted November 11, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted November 11, 2017 31 minutes ago, Abdicate said: Can we agree that we're not to lie? not to kill? not to cheat? No. Not on most forums anyway , with most posters, from what they have posted. Almost all say something like this : (did you not say this too?) : we all sin and cannot stop sinning..... if you say you don't lie , if you keep the commandment to ... oh, wait, there is NO commandment to not lie.... sorry ... if you say you do KEEP A COMMANDMENT, (one of the ten, not the widespread error of 2) , if you say you do keep a commandment, you lose your salvation, or you're not saved !!!!!!!! (yes, astonishingly repeated very often on forum threads and posts, at least when it comes up.... ) What did /does Jesus say ? (Directly about TORAH) ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted November 11, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,128 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,855 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted November 11, 2017 43 minutes ago, Abdicate said: See that's the issue I have with any conversation on this subject, I never once mentioned salvation and yet it's thrown at me each and every time. Anyone who is a real Christians knows full well no one can keep the Ten Commandments and Paul reiterates this in Romans 9, otherwise, why did Jesus have to come if we could keep them without him. Even Jesus pointed this out that even though the rich young ruler kept the law, his riches was his God. While sin exists in our flesh, we will fail, Rom 7:25. Jesus is the only way. So, with that false idea of salvation requiring anything on our part put aside, can you see that God chose a day. Can we agree that we're not to lie? not to kill? not to cheat? not to ... so answer this simple question: why single out the 4th commandment as something we can ignore and not the others? No we can't agree to that for Jesus told us that we can't even want to. Wanting to kill someone is as bad as doing it according to Jesus.... Wanting to cheat is the same as doing it, and that is my point..... when you push the ten commandments you are somewhat saying that you are ok if you don't do those things, but Jesus says that you are already guilty if you want to..... and that's why you can live by the ten commandments your whole life and still go to hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted November 11, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted November 11, 2017 3 minutes ago, other one said: No we can't agree to that for Jesus told us that we can't even want to. No, that's not what He Says/ Said, nor what Yahweh Says/ Said in His Word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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