Wayne222 Posted April 16, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 32 Topic Count: 476 Topics Per Day: 0.17 Content Count: 6,559 Content Per Day: 2.28 Reputation: 7,638 Days Won: 9 Joined: 06/12/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 16, 2017 1 minute ago, shiloh357 said: No, what you said was not true. It was a false accusation and you cannot cut and paste where I said any such thing. Wrong, I never said or implied it. That is a false value you are trying to attack to me. You are putting the lie in my mouth and arguing against it. OK then if someone believes in that the sacraments are the body and Blood of christ. And believe in infant baptism are they saved or not saved because of those beliefs. I am not trying to put words in your mouth at all. Your posts seem to inplied this and other things. I hold you as a brother in christ. But one who does not embrace others to be christians.You could actually make a weak believer fall and lose faith. Now if someone denies christ that would be diffrent. We uphold Jesus as the son of God. A person who does not would be outside the faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 5 minutes ago, Wayne222 said: OK then if someone believes in that the sacraments are the body and Blood of christ. And believe in infant baptism are they saved or not saved because of those beliefs.. Believing in those things doesn't mean someone isn't saved. Trusting in those things for salvation does. I have been crystal clear on that and have taken pains in my posts to make that point. If you read my posts, you didn't read them carefully. Salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone in Christ alone. Nothing else gets you into the Kingdom of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuasonFlower Posted April 16, 2017 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 3 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 311 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 214 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/14/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 16, 2017 1 hour ago, OneLight said: It is rather easy when you have the Love of Christ living in you. One can love the person and still despise their actions. Didn't Jesus love the sinners, yet hated the sin? No. That was Gandhi who said that. Hate the sin, love the sinner. Mahatma Gandhi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuasonFlower Posted April 16, 2017 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 3 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 311 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 214 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/14/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Wayne222 said: What I said was true you inplied people are not in the faith even through they believe christ died and rose from the dead. That is the Gospel read 1 Corth 15 . If you believe that and confess Jesus lord your are saved. You can have a diffrent take on sacraments and baptism. And still be in the faith. You don't think so and inplied people will still go to Hell even after believing in christ. What is the Hank thing? If all that you've said is here in the community isn't that a transgression of the community terms of service?I read that page when I joined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne222 Posted April 16, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 32 Topic Count: 476 Topics Per Day: 0.17 Content Count: 6,559 Content Per Day: 2.28 Reputation: 7,638 Days Won: 9 Joined: 06/12/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 16, 2017 22 minutes ago, JoshuasonFlower said: What is the Hank thing? If all that you've said is here in the community isn't that a transgression of the community terms of service?I read that page when I joined. I have no idea what you are talking about. I was talking to a brother with good intentions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne222 Posted April 16, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 32 Topic Count: 476 Topics Per Day: 0.17 Content Count: 6,559 Content Per Day: 2.28 Reputation: 7,638 Days Won: 9 Joined: 06/12/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 16, 2017 1 hour ago, shiloh357 said: Believing in those things doesn't mean someone isn't saved. Trusting in those things for salvation does. I have been crystal clear on that and have taken pains in my posts to make that point. If you read my posts, you didn't read them carefully. Salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone in Christ alone. Nothing else gets you into the Kingdom of God. Well then you agree church's that practice those things are in the faith. And I agree with you about trusting in those things will not save you. It's christ on the cross and the gift of the Holy Spirit that brings salvation. Redemption through the blood of christ. But we are commanded to take the Lord's supper. I think if a person is disobedient to the commandments then they are not saved. Is Jesus lord or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 38 minutes ago, Wayne222 said: Well then you agree church's that practice those things are in the faith. I am saying that they are unbiblical traditions. I am not saying they are not Christians for adhering to infant baptism or sacraments. I am saying that those things have no salvific value and that if they are practicing those things as necessarily for salvation, then they are not believers. Believers are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne222 Posted April 16, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 32 Topic Count: 476 Topics Per Day: 0.17 Content Count: 6,559 Content Per Day: 2.28 Reputation: 7,638 Days Won: 9 Joined: 06/12/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 16, 2017 14 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: I am saying that they are unbiblical traditions. I am not saying they are not Christians for adhering to infant baptism or sacraments. I am saying that those things have no salvific value and that if they are practicing those things as necessarily for salvation, then they are not believers. Believers are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. There are unbiblical traditions in all churchs. Calvin taught you were saved at baptism. Luther taught it was the real body and blood. I still disagree with you. If we are commanded to practice these things then it's a part of salvation. You are saved at the moment you trust in christ but if you say this is not inportant even through its commanded then that person is probably not saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted April 16, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 16, 2017 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Wayne222 said: There are unbiblical traditions in all churchs. Calvin taught you were saved at baptism. Luther taught it was the real body and blood. I still disagree with you. If we are commanded to practice these things then it's a part of salvation. You are saved at the moment you trust in christ but if you say this is not inportant even through its commanded then that person is probably not saved. Wayne,Lots of stuff being said here that has my eyebrows raised: 1. Calvin taught you were saved at baptism.- better not be infant baptism 2. Luther taught it is the real body and blood of Christ- not 3. If we are commanded to practice these things then it's a part of salvation- nope 4. "...then that person is probably not saved." - I don't believe in transubstantiation, does that mean I am not saved; I don't believe infant baptism does anything pertaining to ones salvation (may help set apart in some way though) what say ye? spock Edited April 16, 2017 by Spock Spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 20 minutes ago, Wayne222 said: There are unbiblical traditions in all churchs. Calvin taught you were saved at baptism. Luther taught it was the real body and blood. I still disagree with you. If we are commanded to practice these things then it's a part of salvation. The Gospel is salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. That's it. Nothing else to add to that We are saved through Christ absent any works. The works we do are the fruit of salvation, not the means of obtaining it. Infant baptism is not commanded and neither are the sacraments. We are not taught that the elements of communion are the real body and blood. That is unbiblical. Calvin is wrong. You are not saved at Baptism. We are commanded to be baptized, but not baptized to be saved. Communion is simply memorial of Christ's death. Baptism and Communion have nothing to do with salvation in terms getting saved or remaining saved. Salvation is 100% a work of God, from start to finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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