Wayne222 Posted April 17, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 32 Topic Count: 476 Topics Per Day: 0.17 Content Count: 6,559 Content Per Day: 2.28 Reputation: 7,638 Days Won: 9 Joined: 06/12/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, Yowm said: We could set up a Worthy Council and anathematize all the tares...(just kiddin folks) James said you show me your faith without works and I will show my faith by my works. I think you have a poor understanding of the subject. I never say that works earn you salvation but it's clear that works bring the fruit that Jesus wants. If you love me keep my commandments he said. I know a lot of Christians who have very little works. Because they have little love for christ. Faith and works go together. It says in James Abraham was justified by works. You cannot take it out of the text. And you don't need to repeat christ alone. We know christ is the sin bearer. He is our righteousness. But God called us to good works. Works are a part of salvation. We were not saved so we could continue in sin. If Abraham did not go to sacrifice his son on the mountain his faith would have been a dead faith. Faith and works go hand in hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted April 17, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,853 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,761 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted April 17, 2017 8 hours ago, Paige Of The Bible said: Not even the Father of Lights loved those who acted in evil. The testament of old shares this with us. I have to admit that I am at a lost, when I read your post. I can't be sure what is the context, in this statement. If you leave it up to me to figure out the context, I have to say that you don't really believe what you posted. If you are referring to the history of the matter, like before the coming of Jesus Christ, the old testament which was given only to the Nation of the Lord of the Israelites, the Nation without the "LIFE". I may see your statement within that period of time, and the covenant that the Lord God had made with the people of this Nation , which included the principal "an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth", and the comantmets. This Lord God was not the Lord God for the whole world, only for this Nation, and could not give life to anyone, and if anyone dares to come to his presence, he gives them death. He couldn't indetify with the human race , and couldn't give what Jesus Christ can give. He couldn't save no one, how can you call him the Father of Lights for the whole world. The old has pass away, the Lord God and his Nation doesn't co-exist together with the new covenant. The Lord God does not rule anymore. JESUS CHRIST rules, and he is the Lord of Lords and he is the Lord of the Nation of the New Covenant. He can identify with the human race, and he died for the whole world , from the beginning to forever , and has inherited Heaven for his Nation, the Nation that is redeem with his blood. The Nation without boarders, spread throughout the whole earth, the Nation of his blood and of his Spirit . We are in the new covenant, no more an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth. Jesus Christ does judge the believer, who continues in sin, but he does not have the right to sent him to Hell because of his sins, and or his desobedience . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, Wayne222 said: James said you show me your faith without works and I will show my faith by my works. I think you have a poor understanding of the subject. I never say that works earn you salvation but it's clear that works bring the fruit that Jesus wants. If you love me keep my commandments he said. I know a lot of Christians who have very little works. Because they have little love for christ. Faith and works go together. It says in James Abraham was justified by works. You cannot take it out of the text. And you don't need to repeat christ alone. We know christ is the sin bearer. He is our righteousness. But God called us to good works. Works are a part of salvation. We were not saved so we could continue in sin. If Abraham did not go to sacrifice his son on the mountain his faith would have been a dead faith. Faith and works go hand in hand. No one is denying the value of works AFTER we are saved, as our works demonstrate and justify the authenticity of our profession of faith. Our works prove that our profession of faith is genuine. But they have nothing to do with salvation, either by how it is obtained or maintained. Abraham was justified by works in the sense that his faith was justified by what he did. He proved that his faith was real. Works did not justify Him before God, though. Works are not part of salvation; they are the fruit of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted April 17, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,853 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,761 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted April 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: No one is denying the value of works AFTER we are saved, as our works demonstrate and justify the authenticity of our profession of faith. Our works prove that our profession of faith is genuine. But they have nothing to do with salvation, either by how it is obtained or maintained. 2 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: Abraham was justified by works in the sense that his faith was justified by what he did. He proved that his faith was real. Works did not justify Him before God, though. Works are not part of salvation; they are the fruit of it. Abraham had the burden of carrying and remaining in his own justification, he had to continually do what the Lord would ask him to do. Example, the sircoumsission, and the offering of Issac. The Lord did not, and could not give him "LIFE", and a Heavenly inheritance. Abraham new that he had to wait for JESUS CHRIST to come . Jesus Christ testified to that, when he said: Abraham has seen my day and rejoice . Jesus Christ died to give life to Abraham also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 8 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said: Abraham had the burden of carrying and remaining in his own justification, he had to continually do what the Lord would ask him to do. Bible doesn't say that at all. The Bible says that Abraham was justified by faith alone (Romans 4). His faith was credited to his account as righteousness and we are told that it is the same for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted April 17, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,853 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,761 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted April 17, 2017 1 minute ago, shiloh357 said: Bible doesn't say that at all. The Bible says that Abraham was justified by faith alone (Romans 4). His faith was credited to his account as righteousness and we are told that it is the same for us. Reading the story of Abraham, in Genesis, we read that God justify Abraham not because he believed that Jesus Christ is the LIFE, and died for the forgiveness of his Sins, and Abraham was never given any instructions how to atone for his sins. Abraham believe that the Lord will give him descendants and a lot of them, and his descendants will not be wiped from the face of the Earth, and the Lord credited his faith as his righteousness , not that he had the Lord's righteousness, but his own righteousness. He wife was not expecting yet, and he did not say, I have to see her pregnant to believe you. Not he believed that the Lord can do that. Other Gods in the neibourhood could do that, but Abraham never went to them, all his life was waiting for the Lord to do that. Before Issac was born, the Lord gave Abraham the sircoumsission, for the reason we read in the Scriptures. And the Lord told him, he has to do what he is asking him to do. If Abraham disobey the Lord he will fall like Adam fall, and there was not reconsilation in place the same as in Adam. Jesus Christ never asked Abraham anything. Abraham never met JESUS. He did not have the faith of Jesus Christ. The way we do our selfs, who lived in the new covenant . Abraham did not lived in the Mosaic covenant, and he couldn't not have the justification through the Law, that's why the writer said , there was before the Law and before the sircoumsission, a righteousness by faith, to Abraham only, till the righteousness of the sircoumsission came to Abraham and his offspring, by inheritance without even their own faith, when born and sircumusize. Babies don't have the capacity to believe or not to believe. this righteousness ended when the Law was given. Abraham die with the righteousness of the sircoumsission, and his obedience, to what the Lord asked him to do, he may have sins, and he admitted that he had sin against other people but the Lord did not count his sins, against the other people against him. His inheritance to his people did not include the Life of God, and Heaven, because he didn't have it himself. Only the promise that one day when he meet the CHRIST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 5 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said: Reading the story of Abraham, in Genesis, we read that God justify Abraham not because he believed that Jesus Christ is the LIFE, and died for the forgiveness of his Sins, and Abraham was never given any instructions how to atone for his sins. I guess you didn't read Romans 4? What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. (Rom 4:1-3) Quote Abraham die with the righteousness of the sircoumsission, and his obedience, to what the Lord asked him to do, he may have sins, and he admitted that he had sin against other people but the Lord did not count his sins, against the other people against him. Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: (Rom 4:9-11) It should be pointed out that the Abraham was justified 25 years before circumcision. He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification. (Rom 4:20-25) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinitin Posted April 17, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,366 Content Per Day: 0.78 Reputation: 2,150 Days Won: 9 Joined: 01/10/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 17, 2017 (edited) I read through the post.. tares is being misused a little. Tares look just like wheat they are sown (in truth) in the field with the wheat, they are watered and cared for with the wheat as wheat. The laborer can not tell the difference till they bloom. When tares bloom the tares are not grain (they have no fruit) they are just black seeds that reproduce more tare which gets mixed with the wheat so it is sown again when the wheat is sown until the last harvest the tare seed is mixed with wheat. In the last harvest which is harvested by the angels the tares and wheat will be seperated and the grain braught into the store house. After the last harvest there isnt another planting so there wont be more tares. Tares are among us Annanias and Sapphires were learning from the apostals and dwelling among Christians and even participating in a move of Gods Spirit. But, the Lord could see by the fruit they were tares. This is why we call our brothers and sisters to repentance and encourage each other to submit to the Lords work in us and by faith step out on the Lords command to barefruit. None of us want to be called up like annanias and sapphires and have the Lord ask us why we let ourselves be decieved. The false teachers, false prophets, false doctrins, false spirit, anti christs are decievers that are themselves decieved. There are specific judgments of God for them. The Lord starts the saving work in us and promises to complete it. Grace covers us till the heavenly seed in us bares the eternal fruit of the kingdom of God. We are told to judge nothing prematurely concerning wheat and tares because we do not always see the Lords hand of salvation or the working of his Sporit and we might pluck out wheat judging it as a tare. He tells us to wait till he exposes all thing then we can judge rightly. Now concerning dicernment of truth and exposing false teachers and false doctrins and decievers we are to stand fully armed and expose them with the light of Christ in us and with the message of truth (The Word), even as we battle with them we are planting the heavenly seed of eternal life with our true witness of Christ. Edited April 17, 2017 by Reinitin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuasonFlower Posted April 17, 2017 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 3 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 311 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 214 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/14/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 17, 2017 23 minutes ago, Reinitin said: I read through the post.. tares is being misused a little. Tares look just like wheat they are sown (by truth) in the field with the wheat, they are watered and cared for with the wheat as wheat. The laborer can not tell the difference till they bloom. When tares bloom the tares are not grain (they have no fruit) they are just black seeds that reproduce more tare which gets mixed with the wheat so it is sown again when the wheat is sown until the last harvest the tare seed is mixed with wheat. In the last harvest which is harvested by the angels the tares and wheat will be seperated and the grain braught into the store house. After the last harvest there isnt another planting so there wont be more tares. Tares are among us Annanias and Sapphires were learning from the apostals and dwelling among Christians and even participating in a move of Gods Spirit. But, the Lord could see by the fruit they were tares. This is why we call our brothers and sisters to repentance and encourage each other to submit to the Lords work in us and by faith step out on the Lords command to barefruit. None of us want to be called up like annanias and sapphires and have the Lord ask us why we let ourselves be decieved. The false teachers, false prophets, false doctrins, false spirit, anti christs are decievers that are themselves decieved. There are specific judgments of God for them. The Lord starts the saving work in us and promises to complete it. Grace covers us till the heavenly seed in us bares the eternal fruit of the kingdom of God. We are told to judge nothing prematurely concerning wheat and tares because we do not always see the Lords hand of salvation or the working of his Sporit and we might pluck out wheat judging it as a tare. He tells us to wait till he exposes all thing then we can judge rightly. Now concerning dicernment of truth and exposing false teachers and false doctrins and decievers we are to stand fully armed and expose them with the light of Christ in us and with the message of truth (The Word), even as we battle with them we are planting the heavenly seed of eternal life with our true witness of Christ. Abraham is not the Patriarch that would know what transpired in the new testament. As you and I both know, the Messiah was prophesied in the old testament but had not yet arrived. Roman's four would therefore be a reflection upon the Abrahmic wisdom. I was dismissed by someone else in this discussion for asking this, so I shall ask you hoping for a more charitable heart. Do you get the distinct impression that this thread was posted here to couch an assault on the faith of members here according to the crass hateful judgment of the few? Including that which initiated the dialog? A violation of the rules in what I read in the terms of service concerning assailing the individual, their faith, through a thinly veiled method that involves addressing the church practice and the general population of said church and their practice being representative of those not actually Christian. Thereby , through that implication in the couching process, saying there are members here who being members of said church are fooling themselves when they call themselves of Christ. Or Christian. I expanded on my thoughts a bit more there than what I did in the first question so as to further the discussion and my concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinitin Posted April 17, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,366 Content Per Day: 0.78 Reputation: 2,150 Days Won: 9 Joined: 01/10/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 17, 2017 1 hour ago, JoshuasonFlower said: Abraham is not the Patriarch that would know what transpired in the new testament. As you and I both know, the Messiah was prophesied in the old testament but had not yet arrived. Roman's four would therefore be a reflection upon the Abrahmic wisdom. I was dismissed by someone else in this discussion for asking this, so I shall ask you hoping for a more charitable heart. Do you get the distinct impression that this thread was posted here to couch an assault on the faith of members here according to the crass hateful judgment of the few? Including that which initiated the dialog? A violation of the rules in what I read in the terms of service concerning assailing the individual, their faith, through a thinly veiled method that involves addressing the church practice and the general population of said church and their practice being representative of those not actually Christian. Thereby , through that implication in the couching process, saying there are members here who being members of said church are fooling themselves when they call themselves of Christ. Or Christian. I expanded on my thoughts a bit more there than what I did in the first question so as to further the discussion and my concern. Im not sure about the rules and how the administration interprets, applies and enforces them. But considering the administration created the community rules I think they have the ability to interprt and apply them. I do think this post was put up to complain about people that are not in agreement with the posters posts (which i have not read so i cant say if it was just propaganda or conflict with doctrins and teachings of man) or if it is just actually false witnesses trying to attack truth and decieve. As far as the post goes. I can dicern it is just rants of the flesh cause their is no elevation of Christ or humility of flesh or patient endurance of the saints or any love for those who are perishing or any sharing of the knowledge or any acknowledgment of Christ's work for us, through us and in us. But we all have flesh the Lord exposes to us and embarresses us with, dont we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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