Matthew 24: Rapture, Second Coming or Both?

[Swords99]

Just now, Keras said:

What God promises to His people, when He sends disaster onto the world, Isaiah 66:15-16, Zephaniah 3:8, Rev 6:11-17, +, is protection, NOT removal.

Kept from the hour of Trial…

How do Revelation 3:10 and 1 Thessalonians 5:9 say we are to be ‘kept from the hour of trial’ and ‘not destined for retribution’?

They are in the context of: Hold on to what you have, [your faith] let no one rob you of your crown. [your reward]  Keep sober, armed with faith and love…..continue to encourage one another.

When we examine the Greek word ‘peirasmos’, translated as ‘trial’ in Rev. 3, we see it doesn’t match with ‘thlipsis’, used in Matthew 24:21; which refers to the Great Tribulation.   1 Thess. 5 is in the context of a sudden destruction the Lord is going to send upon the ungodly peoples.  We should not be in the dark about it, knowing what it will be and be prepared for it, spiritually and physically.

 

For those who stand firm in faith and love, there are two possibilities.  One is a rapture removal to heaven, the other is the Lord’s protection during that time of trouble.

I discount the rapture because such a thing as a general removal of the Lord’s people has never happened before, the Israelites and up to now Christians have always had to face attacks, persecution and disasters. God doesn’t change, Malachi 3:6, and what happened in the past was symbolic and examples for us, upon whom the end of the age is coming: 1 Corinthians 10:6   Besides the fact that a mass rapture to heaven in the end times, is nowhere prophesied or found in the Bible.

Protection does have a precedent; the three men in the furnace, Daniel 3:19-27 But scriptures like Psalms 23 and Isaiah 43:2 ….walk thru fire and you will not be scorched….  plus over 30 other prophesies assuring safety and protection through what is to come. Jesus prayed for this in John 17:15 and promises like; Zephaniah 2:3, 2 Peter 2:9, Psalms 91:1-16, Jeremiah 17:7-8, Isaiah 26:20 are a great comfort and support when trouble strikes.

It’s simple, really; we are plainly told what to do on the terrible Day of the Lord: Call upon the Name of the Lord and you will be saved. Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21

 

 

God spared a very small remnant in Noah and his family.

I don't see anything in the Bible about God protecting anyone during the Tribulation except for a third of the Jews. Again, a small remnant.

[Revelation Man]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I agree with this post. Perhaps I would have worded it a little differently, but same idea.

They imagined, due perhaps to a forged letter, that the Day of the Lord had come, and they were IN IT.

Paul is explaining how anyone can know for sure that the DAY has come and they are in it: if they see the man of sin revealed, they anyone can know the DAY has started and they are in it.

With this knowledge, they then knew the Day had NOT come and they were not in it, so they were still waiting for the rapture.

How amazing, some today imagine it is the DAY.  The day will not come until the church has departed.

One of these days you will awake to the Islam angle. You are debating, somewhat in vain, with people who have a preconceived ideas and its hard to overcome that. That's the way I feel about the Islam angle.

 

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Now that you explain it, I see what you mean. By ceasing to restrain, the man if sin is allowed to come forth and be revealed.

Exactly, the KJV basically says things in a warped Old English style, and we have to dig out the truth nugget. 

[iamlamad]

22 minutes ago, Swords99 said:

God spared a very small remnant in Noah and his family.

I don't see anything in the Bible about God protecting anyone during the Tribulation except for a third of the Jews. Again, a small remnant.

And what God does say about the saints, is that they will be overcome.

I have never been able to understand what is so difficult to understand about being overcome. It is a simply concept.  Yet some have such thick preconceived glasses on, they are blind to these verses.

[iamlamad]

37 minutes ago, Keras said:

It’s simple, really; we are plainly told what to do on the terrible Day of the Lord: Call upon the Name of the Lord and you will be saved. Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21

New International Version
And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the LORD has said, even among the survivors whom the LORD calls.
 

How interesting: this calling on the Lord is further  qualified as being in JERUSALEM. God specifically says that there will be deliverance in Jerusalem.  So what verse would fit those in any other city? They will be overcome.

It seems you plan on getting to Jerusalem. Will you fly? When will you leave? What signs will you look for to know when to leave? Or will you move ahead of time to Europe or Africa so you can drive / walk to Jerusalem?

Edited July 4, 2017 by iamlamad

[fixerupper]

4 hours ago, Davida said:

So to you the "restrainer" is apostasy?    

This is why I don't care for these threads.  You don't have to respond I'm leaving.

Learn something big guy, it's common sense!  Read the passage again and pay attention!  The word WITHHOLD (restrain) is used TWICE. 

In verse 3 Paul says...

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

In verse 4 he says...

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

In verse 5 he says...

Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

Withholdeth is used once In verse 6 he says...

And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

Paul is saying that he already told them WHAT WITHHOLDETH!  So they already knew!  That is an APOSTASY!

The word, "letteth" is the word 'withholdeth' and is also used here in verse 7...

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

That verse is the one in contention.

Edited July 4, 2017 by fixerupper

[fixerupper]

44 minutes ago, Swords99 said:

God spared a very small remnant in Noah and his family.

I don't see anything in the Bible about God protecting anyone during the Tribulation except for a third of the Jews. Again, a small remnant.

Maybe you would if you guys wouldn't mistranslate this verse...

Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

[Swords99]

Born again believers in Christ are not under God's wrath. ( 1 Thessalonians 1:10) His wrath will be poured out in the earth, but not on His people.

[fixerupper]

3 minutes ago, Swords99 said:

Born again believers in Christ are not under God's wrath. ( 1 Thessalonians 1:10) His wrath will be poured out in the earth, but not on His people.

Maybe you should pay attention to the context of the passage instead of paying attention to your pre-trib mentors.

9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;

10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

This passage is about the Thessalonians who turned from idol worship to Christ.  The wrath Jesus delivers them from is the wrath that is averted by Christ through repentance.

[n2thelight]

You as a pre trib cannot under any circumstances use Matt 24 as a rapture,period!!!

You can like many do that it was'nt written 4 the Church,but in light of He telling you He returns AFTER the trib won't work....

[Keras]

6 hours ago, Swords99 said:

God spared a very small remnant in Noah and his family.

I don't see anything in the Bible about God protecting anyone during the Tribulation except for a third of the Jews. Again, a small remnant.

It isn't the Great Tribulation that I am referring to here, but the Lord's Day of wrath, and event years before the GT and the Return of Jesus. 

In the next prophesied event; the Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath, The Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, He will judge and punish His enemies, but also He will protect and save His true believing people.

Two prophesies specifically say that He will save those who call upon His Name; Joel 2:32 and Acts 2:21. Many others detail how He will do this:

Isaiah 30:26…on the Day the Lord will heal His people….The sun will shine with seven times its normal strength, like seven days in one. A Coronal Mass Ejection; as  is what the Lord will use on His Day of wrath.

Psalms 23:4 If I walk through a valley of darkness, I will fear no harm, for You are with me.

Isaiah 41:3 For I the Lord, will hold your right hand, saying: fear not, I will help you.

Isaiah 43:2b…walk thru fire and you will not be scorched, thru flames and not be burned.

Zephaniah 2:3 Seek the Lord, all you who obey Him, it may be that you will be sheltered on the Day of the Lord’s anger.

Proverbs 3:25 Do not be afraid when fools are frightened or when destruction overtakes the wicked, for the Lord will be at your side on that Day.

Daniel 3:25 An angel protects the 3 men in the furnace, an example of the Lord’s protection.

Psalms 9:10 The Lord does not abandon those who seek Him and trust in Him.

 

1 Corinthians 10:13.... God will not test you beyond your powers and when the test comes, He will provide a way out to enable you to endure.

2 Peter 2:9 God knows how to rescue the godly from their trials.

Psalms 18:3 I shall call upon the Lord, then I will be made safe.

Psalms 31:23-24 The Lord protects the faithful. Be strong, all you whose hope is in the Lord.

Zechariah 9:15-16 The Lord of hosts will protect His people...On that Day, He will save them, like a flock, for they are precious to Him. Isaiah 61:10

Psalms 37:18-19 The Lord watches over the righteous, when times are bad, they will not be distressed.

Psalms 64:10 The righteous rejoice, their refuge in the Lord.

Job 22:30 He will deliver the innocent, because their hands are pure.

Isaiah 51:16 I keep you covered under the shelter of My hand.

Psalms 97:10-12 He keeps His loyal servants safe and rescues them from the wicked.

Jeremiah 17:7-8 Blessed is anyone who trusts in the Lord, they will be like trees by a stream, when the heat comes it has nothing to fear.

Nahum 1:7 The Lord is a sure protection in times of trouble and cares for all those who make Him their refuge.

Psalms 60:4-5 To those who fear the Lord, He will show the way to escape from trouble.

Psalms 37:9 For evildoers will be destroyed, those who trust in the Lord will prosper in the Land.

Isaiah 26:20 On that Day, I will come to your aid.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-8 ...to give you relief when the Lord Jesus comes in blazing fire.

Ecclesiasticus 34:13-17 Those who fear the Lord will live, for their trust in Him can keep them safe. The Lord keeps watch over those who love Him, He is their shield and support, a shelter from the scorching wind and the heat of the sun. He raises their spirits and gives healing, life and blessings.

                                                                           Reference: Revised English Bible.