hmbld Posted July 8, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,491 Content Per Day: 0.54 Reputation: 1,457 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/23/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/02/1971 Author Share Posted July 8, 2017 On July 2, 2017 at 5:40 PM, Yowm said: Most of Matt 18 deals with offenses including this one... "If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. (Mat 18:15-17) Thanks Yowm, I value your wisdom here at Worthy. While this scripture does deal with offenses, my main interest is should I be offended, or easily offended, or can I simply choose not to be offended? Should I choose not to be offended? After all, if I am offended, what is it that is actually hurt by the offense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmbld Posted July 8, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,491 Content Per Day: 0.54 Reputation: 1,457 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/23/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/02/1971 Author Share Posted July 8, 2017 On July 3, 2017 at 7:47 AM, Neighbor said: Please allow me a question- to whom is Jesus speaking? Is everyone a brother, or not? I ask for there is great doubt in my mind that the principle, the command, applies univerally, for what benefit is there in attempting to take a non-brother (or non-sister) to church for resolution of a conflict? I deal with a non-believing world, a world to which I am a foreigner. I am like most that may be here on this board, held to a standard the world does not obey and does not want. In that world I find offense against God all day everyday. I cannot take the world into a court of church. And so I must simply be content to suffer even as God Himself suffered the world's abuse. I do so as my Lord Jesus' bond-servant. I do so happily regardless of the "incoming" assaults on my own body because of my own adherence to the faith of Jesus. Instead I chose to let my own non retaliation become introduction to my own testimony of the awesomeness of our creator. Doing so as best I know how, to be loyal as a soldier of Christ Jesus. I try to not go act for act, response for response, cutting word for cutting word, as there is no good fruit on that tree. To paraphrase it may be sweet on the tongue but it will be bitter in the stomach. In the Old testament the standard from God was to not be excessive in response to offense, an eye for an eye is a limit- not a demand. It is a limit on the cruelty of response to an affront one that is not to be exceeded. The New testament steps up our game a bit. Matthew 5:38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’39 But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41 And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42 Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you. Personally I conclude that there is one standard and provision for dealing with brothers for they are aware of Jesus and are his bond-servants, and there is another way for dealing in and with an unbelieving world that does not yet kneel before God. My testimony as a witness must be honest and also greater than my old self would ever allow. And I must let patience have it's victory that comes with time. I must become humble* by being humbled* enough to withstand the assaults for my Lord's gospel, the gospel of Jesus the Christ. * One cannot brag about being humble can they? Therefore it is a difficult experience to describe that state of being actively passive in response to assault. Thank you Neighbor, I love your presence here at Worthy, and I agree with your post! Now, while I agree that only another Christian can be brought before the church in these events, my question remains, whether I am offended by a Christian or a unbeliever, can I choose not to be offended? This board has many who proclaim Jesus is Lord, yet so many are offended, this place should be emitting light with all the wisdom God has blessed us with, yet recently there seems to be so much contention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmbld Posted July 8, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,491 Content Per Day: 0.54 Reputation: 1,457 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/23/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/02/1971 Author Share Posted July 8, 2017 On July 3, 2017 at 9:22 AM, kwikphilly said: Excellent thread Hmbld.....the "spirit of pride" is indeed the adversary,that busy little demon is very fast to tell us"They just offended YOU!!!" Oh my,we must rebuke that spirit....bringing our thoughts to the obedience of Christ!!!! Never ever ever to repay evil with evil,9 times out of ten that spirit will have persuaded a Believer that there was much more than what was actually said......& then who is truly the disobedient one? We must be extra careful on the computer,all there is ,is words.....there is no sound,tone,we can't see gestures or facial expressions ,body language is absent and most the time there are many assumptions being made in regards to someones intent,motives,agenda.......assumptions are never a good thing,especially to assume you've just been personally offended We must be SLOW to anger,ready to forgive and also have the Wisdom to know better than to entertain the enemy I don't remember ever being easily offended & as a matter of fact I wrestled with the spirit of pride for a long time,still never easily offended & I thank God for that but I was always a pretty confident person....Then as I matured(in Christ) I really understood the difference between Gods Righteousness & being "self righteous",so its pretty difficult for me to take offense knowing it is not flesh & blood that is the adversary I have "heard" many things that were probably meant to be offensive but it just doesn't work out real well for the enemy,I know WHO I am in Christ Before I fully submitted to Christ Lordship I was prideful & would more often than not be the one to offend & Holy Spirit Revealed my own heart to me......that hurt,I seek Gods Approval,not mans and its very easy to say"I'm sorry" because I don't want anyone to be hurt because of the Love of Christ I think usually it is hurt people that hurt people,the best prayer is to ask the Lord to Reveal our own hearts to us.......What I've learned in all these years is that "hurt" is also due to "pride" With love-in Christ,Kwik Thanks Kwik! Rebuke the spirit of pride, and bringing our thoughts captive, yes, I agree. Thank you for always shining light here at Worthy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmbld Posted July 8, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,491 Content Per Day: 0.54 Reputation: 1,457 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/23/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/02/1971 Author Share Posted July 8, 2017 On July 3, 2017 at 10:48 AM, Neighbor said: I asked because the premise of the thread, as I understood it, was that someone of the world, not a believer in Jesus as Lord, had called a saint a demon. Your Bible quote, I have thought to date deals with believers, and relations between believers, in Christ Jesus as Lord God and savior. I was left with the question how do I make application of that guidance when dealing with nonbelievers, does it fit? It may not fit well for dealing with the world of nonbelievers. Or then again, maybe you think it does and I want to learn. I am curious; and so I have asked. You have answered, leaving me to think- evidently it doesn't "fit", but is profitable to know. ??? But that is okay, Bible stuff is always good for making me think things through and to pray about gaining understanding. So thanks.. Just a clarification, the thread was not about someone calling a saint a demon, though it was posted by someone. I intended it to be in the spirit of my personal responsibility to not pick up offenses. If you throw an offense at me, do I have to catch it or can (or should) I leave it fall to the ground and never even pick it up? How do I choose that? Willa's post helped me see what I was asking, though George just sent me a link to read so I'll do that next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1to3 Posted July 8, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 139 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,228 Content Per Day: 1.23 Reputation: 3,076 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/28/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 8, 2017 (edited) On 2017-07-02 at 3:43 PM, hmbld said: Can I choose not to be offended? It depends on a persons ability of comprehension, its inner self esteem, and its capacity to reason and hopefully reason through the Holy Spirit of God working in a persons heart. It has been mentioned here " the turning of the other cheek ". That passage is not a passage to be used to allow a person to get abused or walked on. ( tha's not what Christ Jesus meant) I do think He means to not take offense. To turn the other cheek just like a plash of water leaving a ducks back and not remaining on it so not to soak it unnecessarily. No God does not want that for His children. God desires His children to know with confidence who they are in Christ Jesus and with a christian stance of peace, to go boldly speaking your truth in firmness, kindness and understanding, with Gods wisdom and Grace behind your actions and words. Cool Calm Collected is the best way to handle when being offended. And there is such a thing as to having a correct anger for what is wrong and stating your anger in a polite controlled way to make your point clear. Christ Jesus expressed his anger by exposing the money grabbers in the synagogue. He did not stay with his anger he made His point clear that it was wrong what they were doing, by turning over their trading tables and that was that. He stated it was wrong and moved on. We loose the battle for our rights when we succumb to anger, loose control of our temper and let our ego take control over Godly temperance. Of course we can become offended by a another persons bullying, deceitfulness, evil doing. And we should be able to stand for what is right, unless to do so, can bring-on unnecessary peril. ( the wisdom of God is needed here) especially when dealing with a cunning deceitful opposition. The thing is to know where we stand in Christ and to stand firm on that. If we are His children, we then when feeling offended bring our concerns to God and look into His Word for Answers before shooting off the lip or overreacting without much control. Then we will react in a more centered way, a more God centered way, with inner confidence c0nfi deo= trust in God that He is with us when we stand up for our rights or the rights of another, as another human being. Unfortunately abused children don't have many rights and can get quite broken from continuous abusive offenses given to them by their primary care gives and those that they were subjected to in their early developmental stages of life who acted abusively towards and instilled Trauma/sin into their innocent hearts. This is when Trauma=Sin can set in to the heart of the one offended/defiled, especially when it done at a very young developmental age. Healing from early inner trauma/sin is a process. This world if filled with broken people. And brokenness, defilement by sin and trauma can put people to sleep or in different hypnotic trances. Coming to God, tuning to God is the beginning of healing and waking up from diverse hypnotic trances this world has tried to impose on us through all manner of Trauma/sin. The only way complete healing can happen is by going to God and asking for His Mercy and Grace to set you free. God will come to the heart soul of the hurting one who truly seeks Him earnestly, and God will began His healing process in a broken heart once we ask God for forgiveness and to please come and make His home in our hearts. The inner healing of early Trauma that can make a person the way they are, takes time and patience for healing to happen. Assuredly as His Word is TRUE, healing in God will happen in anyone who comes to God and asks for His help, healing and forgiveness Many people have what we now call mental illness in ALL its varying degrees. With mental illness can come also learning liabilities, and having a very low self esteem that the early trauma brought on, compounded now with the mental illness that have set into a persons way of being. The only ONE that I know that can transform a broken person into a healed person from early Trauma is God and also the human Godly love of a true christian believer towards the broken person-people- in question I think the more you know who God is and are experiencing God working in your life and heart, the less you will become offended and the better you will know how to deal with the arrows of the enemies. If God is with you, who is going against you should not matter or carry its heaviness in your heart. Bring all concerns to God first, especially before taking any action. In all circumstances Speak your truth with firmness, kindness and understanding. with Gods truth (confi deo =confidence in God) by your side and as your guide. Not being offended to easily depends a lot on a person own confidence (confi deo= confidence in God) that they have within themselves and that begins with God working in your heart, healing your own heart and walking in confidence with God and knowing where you stand with God. Non of us is perfect, we are perfected though Christ working in our hearts, because of this, God has made His plan of Mercy to be working in all who call on Him And Godly forgiveness is a major key to the ingredient of not keeping offenses alive in ones heart and towards anyone . How many times are we to forgive? Matthew 18:21 20For where two or three gather together in My name, there am I with them.” 21Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother who sins against me? Up to seven times?” 22Jesus answered, “I tell you, not just seven times, but seventy-seven times!… (Matt. 7:2); Mark 11:25; (Eph. 4:32; Col. 3:13) Matt 6: 14-15“For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15But #Matt. 18:35; James 2:13if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. Edited July 8, 2017 by 1to3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmbld Posted July 8, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,491 Content Per Day: 0.54 Reputation: 1,457 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/23/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/02/1971 Author Share Posted July 8, 2017 3 hours ago, 1to3 said: It depends on a persons ability of comprehension, its inner self esteem, and its capacity to reason and hopefully reason through the Holy Spirit of God working in a persons heart. It has been mentioned here " the turning of the other cheek ". That passage is not a passage to be used to allow a person to get abused or walked on. ( tha's not what Christ Jesus meant) I do think He means to not take offense. To turn the other cheek just like a plash of water leaving a ducks back and not remaining on it so not to soak it unnecessarily. No God does not want that for His children. God desires His children to know with confidence who they are in Christ Jesus and with a christian stance of peace, to go boldly speaking your truth in firmness, kindness and understanding, with Gods wisdom and Grace behind your actions and words. Cool Calm Collected is the best way to handle when being offended. And there is such a thing as to having a correct anger for what is wrong and stating your anger in a polite controlled way to make your point clear. Christ Jesus expressed his anger by exposing the money grabbers in the synagogue. He did not stay with his anger he made His point clear that it was wrong what they were doing, by turning over their trading tables and that was that. He stated it was wrong and moved on. We loose the battle for our rights when we succumb to anger, loose control of our temper and let our ego take control over Godly temperance. Of course we can become offended by a another persons bullying, deceitfulness, evil doing. And we should be able to stand for what is right, unless to do so, can bring-on unnecessary peril. ( the wisdom of God is needed here) especially when dealing with a cunning deceitful opposition. The thing is to know where we stand in Christ and to stand firm on that. If we are His children, we then when feeling offended bring our concerns to God and look into His Word for Answers before shooting off the lip or overreacting without much control. Then we will react in a more centered way, a more God centered way, with inner confidence c0nfi deo= trust in God that He is with us when we stand up for our rights or the rights of another, as another human being. Unfortunately abused children don't have many rights and can get quite broken from continuous abusive offenses given to them by their primary care gives and those that they were subjected to in their early developmental stages of life who acted abusively towards and instilled Trauma/sin into their innocent hearts. This is when Trauma=Sin can set in to the heart of the one offended/defiled, especially when it done at a very young developmental age. Healing from early inner trauma/sin is a process. This world if filled with broken people. And brokenness, defilement by sin and trauma can put people to sleep or in different hypnotic trances. Coming to God, tuning to God is the beginning of healing and waking up from diverse hypnotic trances this world has tried to impose on us through all manner of Trauma/sin. The only way complete healing can happen is by going to God and asking for His Mercy and Grace to set you free. God will come to the heart soul of the hurting one who truly seeks Him earnestly, and God will began His healing process in a broken heart once we ask God for forgiveness and to please come and make His home in our hearts. The inner healing of early Trauma that can make a person the way they are, takes time and patience for healing to happen. Assuredly as His Word is TRUE, healing in God will happen in anyone who comes to God and asks for His help, healing and forgiveness Many people have what we now call mental illness in ALL its varying degrees. With mental illness can come also learning liabilities, and having a very low self esteem that the early trauma brought on, compounded now with the mental illness that have set into a persons way of being. The only ONE that I know that can transform a broken person into a healed person from early Trauma is God and also the human Godly love of a true christian believer towards the broken person-people- in question I think the more you know who God is and are experiencing God working in your life and heart, the less you will become offended and the better you will know how to deal with the arrows of the enemies. If God is with you, who is going against you should not matter or carry its heaviness in your heart. Bring all concerns to God first, especially before taking any action. In all circumstances Speak your truth with firmness, kindness and understanding. with Gods truth (confi deo =confidence in God) by your side and as your guide. Not being offended to easily depends a lot on a person own confidence (confi deo= confidence in God) that they have within themselves and that begins with God working in your heart, healing your own heart and walking in confidence with God and knowing where you stand with God. Non of us is perfect, we are perfected though Christ working in our hearts, because of this, God has made His plan of Mercy to be working in all who call on Him And Godly forgiveness is a major key to the ingredient of not keeping offenses alive in ones heart and towards anyone . How many times are we to forgive? Matthew 18:21 20For where two or three gather together in My name, there am I with them.” 21Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother who sins against me? Up to seven times?” 22Jesus answered, “I tell you, not just seven times, but seventy-seven times!… (Matt. 7:2); Mark 11:25; (Eph. 4:32; Col. 3:13) Matt 6: 14-15“For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15But #Matt. 18:35; James 2:13if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. I think you get what I am asking. God does transform our hearts, yet some responsibility falls on us as to how we respond to situations and words said, and while I agree with what I originally copied and posted, the "how" escapes me, though you have touched on the how with your post, thanks! I am trying to learn to bring it to God first, prayers are welcome. A wise man here at worthy many years ago stated that one needs not to protect his heart, God will take care of it. Been pondering that all these years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted July 8, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 953 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,589 Content Per Day: 5.03 Reputation: 9,056 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted July 8, 2017 8 hours ago, hmbld said: Thank you Neighbor, I love your presence here at Worthy, and I agree with your post! Now, while I agree that only another Christian can be brought before the church in these events, my question remains, whether I am offended by a Christian or a unbeliever, can I choose not to be offended? This board has many who proclaim Jesus is Lord, yet so many are offended, this place should be emitting light with all the wisdom God has blessed us with, yet recently there seems to be so much contention. Thank you! Can "I" choose not to be offended? Yes! Contention is only a tactic, one used by those engaging in "the ministry of distraction" as Zola Levitt described the users of contention. He said,...they have no point. They just minister their contention to distract from Jesus. As for me, I try to not grant the distractor any victories in my becoming offended by their attempts at causing contentiousness. "We" need simply stay on point which is Jesus our Lord and savior in our life eternal. Let the joy of that sustain in all situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1to3 Posted July 9, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 139 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,228 Content Per Day: 1.23 Reputation: 3,076 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/28/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 9, 2017 (edited) 23 hours ago, hmbld said: A wise man here at worthy many years ago stated that one needs not to protect his heart, God will take care of it. Been pondering that all these years. Thank you for your reply back hmbld The passage I have quoted that you wrote, puzzles me, because When I was young, I used to trust to easily . I had to learn through the school of hard knocks, that we must be discerning in this world. A wise man who now has passed told me in 2005, to trust no one but God. His name was Eddy and he came from a Jewish background but came to believe in Christ Jesus. I believe God placed us together in friendship for a time, and it was done for His glory, because I got to remind him back of his faith and through that he helped me straighten mine.Eddie passed away in 2010 at the age of 73 yrs Also the bible does tell us that in: Psalm 118:8 7The LORD is for me among those who help me; Therefore I will look with satisfaction on those who hate me. 8It is better to take refuge in the LORD Than to trust in man. 9It is better to take refuge in the LORD Than to trust in princes.… 1 John 4 4 My dear brothers, do not trust every spirit. But test the spirits to see if they belong to God. There are many prophets who are not true who have gone out into the world. 2 Here is how you can know the Spirit of God. Every spirit that believes that Jesus Christ has come in the body of a man is from God. 3 And every spirit that does not say this about Jesus, does not belong to God. That is the spirit of the one who is against Christ. You have heard that he is coming. And now he is already in the world. 4 My children, you belong to God. You have won the victory over those prophets who are not true. You have won because the Spirit that is in you is stronger than the spirit that is in the world. 5 Those prophets belong to the world. That is why they teach about things in the world. And that is why the people of the world listen to them. 6 But we belong to God. Anyone who knows God listens to us. Anyone who does not belong to God does not listen to us. This is how we know if a spirit is true or not true. 7 My dear brothers, we must love one another, because love comes from God. Everyone who loves others is God's child and he knows God. 8 But anyone who does not love others does not know God, because God is love. 9 This is how God showed his love for us. He sent his only Son into the world to give us life. 10 This is love! We did not love God, but he loved us. And he sent his Son to be the sacrifice to pay for the wrong things we have done. 11 My dear brothers, if God loved us so much, we must love one another also. 12 No man has ever seen God. But God lives in us if we love one another. And in loving one another, his love is made perfect. 13 He has given us of his own Spirit. That is how we know that we are in him and he is in us. 14 And we have seen and we are telling you that the Father sent his Son to save the people in the world. 15 If anyone says, `Jesus is the Son of God,' God is in him and he is in God. 16 We know and we believe that God loves us. God is love. And anyone who loves others is in God and God is in him. 17 That is why we love each other very much. Then we will not be afraid on the day when people are judged. We are like Christ in this world. 18 Where God's love is, there is no fear. God's perfect love takes away fear. It is punishment that makes a person fear. Anyone who has fear does not have perfect love. 19 We love others because God first loved us. 20 If anyone says, `I love God', and he hates his brother, he is telling a lie. If he does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 21 God gave us this law. The person who loves God must love his brother also. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Because of many diverse things happening at once within our frame of being when engaging with someone i.e. -our culture, out past upbringing, our past social history,our basic personality,our past trauma/sin, our faith or lack of it- I don't think we can control when we feel offended because part of it is a reaction but I do think we can learn NEW ways to diffuse whatever is going on that offends us when we feel offended. And that is part of healing the broken soul/spirit. We need God and His Holy Spirit working in us to help us to diffuse and learn to diffuse our offenses or what we perceive as offensives in a Godly manner "Our battles are fought on our knees." Charles Stanley Edited July 9, 2017 by 1to3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1to3 Posted July 9, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 139 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,228 Content Per Day: 1.23 Reputation: 3,076 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/28/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 9, 2017 (edited) erased Edited July 9, 2017 by 1to3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrior12 Posted July 9, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 54 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,428 Content Per Day: 0.88 Reputation: 1,516 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/05/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted July 9, 2017 3 hours ago, 1to3 said: "Our battles are fought on our knees." Charles Stanley Great quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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