2 Thessalonians 2:6-7

[simplejeff]

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

The church isn't stopping evil in any way.

Who says ?  ("in any way") .....  keep seeking,  and don't stop seeking,  and you will find where they "go and sin no more" , what Jesus Says and what Jesus means.....

36 minutes ago, Diaste said:

You still are not answering the question. "If the church restrained evil then why is so much evil alive and well on earth today? "

See how difficult it is here ?   Evil is more popular than righteousness, even more than God and His Word.

[frienduff thaylorde]

Their is no need to war and stive over this .   Just take the simple advice and read the word for yourselves.

remember paul is talking about the DAY OF THE LORD and what must occur before HIS COMING.

I am off to go encourage elsewhere.  I love you all.  and letus praise the Lord on high , and sing great praises of thanksgiving to His name.

[Diaste]

2 minutes ago, Davida said:

Your statement above is a false accusation, plus you are trying to change the definition of the word - "LIE".  The DICTIONARY has the definition of what a Lie is.

A lie is something that is done knowingly  for the PURPOSE to deceive. 

People have different OPINIONS on when the Tribulation will occur, they are not knowingly trying to deceive others.

If a person starts misapplying and changing the dictionary definitions of common English words that doesn't present well for their Bible interpretations imo. 

And Satan has knowingly and with purpose perpetrated a lie on the church. And you have no idea whether this, "they are not knowingly trying to deceive others." is true of everyone or not. It may not be true of anyone. You have no way of knowing the heart of anyone so anyone of the people you are defending could be purposely trying to deceive. Big money in religion and feel good theology.  Besides, I'm not interested in the Dictionary definition of a lie. It's God's definition that is important, not man's. 

a lie, falsehood, untruth; false religion.

 deceive, lie, speak falsely.

a falsehood, lie, untruthfulness

scheming, craftiness, deceit.

[frienduff thaylorde]

1 minute ago, Davida said:

No one holds back Jesus.  Jesus returns at the appointed time. The anti-Christ is the one being held back from appearing.

But in heaven HE will remain till all things prophesied are done.   Davida .    let us not war over this .   IF we would just read the letter As is

in time , in time it becomes clearer.   For now let us be prepared to endure in Christ what is and will come against us.    You be blessed davida.  you know i LOVE you.

I don't desire to look wise at all.   Just wanting to help and encouarage.  

[Diaste]

2 minutes ago, Davida said:

No one holds back Jesus.  Jesus returns at the appointed time. The anti-Christ is the one being held back from appearing.

Going back in time? Offer proof of your contention. Just saying it doesn't make it so. I offered lots of proof that the revealing of the antichrist is what is restraining the appearance of Jesus and the gathering of the elect. As Paul perfectly points out in 2 Thess 2. 

As before this is the order:

Beginning of Sorrows

The A of D

Great tribulation

Jesus appears and we are gathered

Wrath of God.

And none other.

[Diaste]

1 minute ago, Davida said:

LOL!!  GOD sticks with the Truth and doesn't twist things. The Bible uses dictionary definitions for words.

But you are twisting the meaning of the word "lie" to suit your own purpose and making false accusation against other Christians.

Those definitions I posted are from the NT Greek defining the word 'lie' as in deception, the way the NT authors used the words. A far better set of definitions than what arises in the mind of man.

And the pretrib ideology is still a lie and always will be.

Soon you will see.

[frienduff thaylorde]

What is coming to pass is coming to pass.    It is high time we do all to remind one another , warn, encourage , just do all

because i am truly in heart warning us all.  A serious bad delusion has began and i promise its leading the world right to the beast ,

right to it.  We will be betrayed by so many, even by those who in mouth only said JESUS>

yall its began, this delusion its truly began.  And we cannot in any way expect to escape being persecuted or killed even.

I understand to many the idea of all inclusive , interfaith , the idea of world peace sounds like an answer to the worlds ills. ITS NOT

IT is what IS leading the world right to the head of all evil which SOON stands.

all inclusive , interfaith is a LIE , compare it to JESUS OWN WORDS.  its DENYING and DENIES HIM

its pointing the world under a false love , WORLD love , WORLD unity WORLD peace.   key word WORLD.

its the wisdom of darkness, appearing as light , appearing as love to those who know not GOD

appearing as wisdom to those whose minds are carnal , NOT SPIRITUAL in CHRIST

its a trap and a heavy deception.     And the whole core of interfaith is to promote MANKIND , humanity Above everything.

it places false gods reoligoins and even Christanity the TRUE RELIGOIN , SECOND to humanity FIRST

ITS LEADING THE DARK ONE.  ITS going to stand , king and kings will rule one hour with the beast and the religion

that leads to this all, HAS BEGAN to lead to this .    ITS BEGAN.     TIME is running out .    WE have to come to the mindset to NOT escape

persecution , but to IN CHRIST be able to endure and remain FAITHFUL in HIM to the end, no matter what the cost.    ITS COMING

and itwont be stopped.

[simplejeff]

3 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

IT is what IS leading the world right to the head of all evil which SOON stands.

Amein friend.....

 

Romans 1:25

KJ21

They changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshiped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

[When Is Jesus Coming?]

40 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Thanks for clarifying. But there is no restrainer in the context you propose.

2 Thess

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ[a] had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God[c] in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

The question here concerns the Coming of Jesus and the gathering of us to Him. Both events forever linked in time/space. Paul says that day had not come no matter what rumors were floating about. Paul now says when the day (Jesus coming AND the gathering) will occur.  The man of sin and the son of perdition are the same person in a normal reading. The fact that this person is now prophesied to, "opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God[c] in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God." means this is the beast/AC and both "the man of sin, the son of perdition," are descriptions of the one person that will sit in the Temple declaring himself god. 

And even if this is two different people, the beast and the false prophet say, Jesus appearance and the gathering only occurs after this revealing and taking a seat in the Temple.

Now the same context exists in the next passage:

5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time.

This means the beast is the "what is restraining". "Now you know what is restraining", directly after the explanation of timing for the appearance of Jesus and the gathering. More accurately, the events of the revealing of the beast, sitting in the Temple, declaring himself god, and exalting himself have to occur before Jesus appears and we are gathered to him.

Witness this study concerning the OP and 2 Thess 2:7.

Greek:

μόνον ὁ κατέχων ἄρτι ἕως ἐκ μέσου γένηται.

Transliterated Greek:

...monon arti kateco heos ginomai ek mesos

 

KJV:                 only       he who now       letteth        [will let],

Literal Greek:  Merely      just now        hold fast        until.

 

KJV :                  until               he be taken             out of               the way. 

Literal Greek:     until               to emerge           from out of         in the midst.

"Only he who now letteth will let until he be taken out of the way" makes sense in light of this.

The beast is what is restraining the coming of Jesus until the beast is revealed. This all fits in with the revealing of the beast at the midpoint or, "emerges in the midst" is the last week.

Consider:

 

‘Ginomai’ (he be taken)

Definition

to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen of events to arise, appear in history, come upon the stage of men appearing in public to be made, finished of miracles, to be performed, wrought to become, be made

‘Mesos’ (the way)

Definition

middle the midst in the midst of, amongst

These are the two most important points from the verse in question and they completely change the understanding of 2 Thess 2:7. This is a profound change especially in light of the real meaning of “what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.” In context what withholds is the fulfillment of apostasia and the revealing of the man of sin, that Jesus may be revealed in His time. The context of the passage is the 2^nd coming and the fear of the people they missed it. Paul explains they did not miss this and relates what must occur first. Since apostasia and the revealing must happen before Jesus returns, WHAT withholds, not WHO, are the coming events of apostasia, and the revealing of the man of sin, and what they are withholding is the 2^nd coming and the gathering of the elect.

Please read it all in context. 

2  Thessalonians 2 

 

1Now we implore you, brothers, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together unto Him, 2for you not quickly to be shaken in mind, nor to be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as if by us, as that day of the Lord is present. 3No one should deceive you in any way, because it is not until the apostasy shall have come first, and the man of lawlessness shall have been revealed—the son of destruction, 4the one opposing and exalting himself above every so-called god or object of worship—so as for him to sit down in the temple of God, setting forth that he himself is God.5Do you not remember that, being yet with you, I was saying these things to you? 6And now you know that which is restraining for his being revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of lawlessness is working already; there is only the one at present restraining it, until he might be gone out of themidst. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will consume with the breath of His mouth and will annul by the appearing of His coming, 9whose coming is according to the working of Satan, in every power, and in signs, and in wonders of falsehood, 10and in every deception of wickedness unto those perishing, in return for which they did not receive the love of the truth in order for them to be saved. 11And because of this, God will send to them a working of delusion, for them to believe what is false, 12in order that all those not having believed the truth but having delighted in unrighteousness should be judged.

verse 3: apostasy of the Church and the man of lawlessness is the anti-Christ

verse 6: the restrainer is the Holy Spirit filled Church on Earth. 

verse 11: the delusion will be Satan's end times alien deception.

 

[frienduff thaylorde]

3 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

Amein friend.....

 

Romans 1:25

KJ21

They changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshiped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

any wonder why this generation has been given over to a reprobate mind to do these things.........................why gay marriage is rampant

ITS BEEN GIVEN OVER TO A TOTAL REPROBATE MIND............................Generation back did not want GOD in its conscious as a whole

they don't want any reminders of him at all................LOOKOUT REPROBATION NATION AND NATIONS has occurred , a heavey delusion that is leading

the world right to the day of armegeddon and so few see it .    OH yeah,   the spirit of anti Christ is not COMING...........ITS BEEN HERE for a LONG TIME.

now nigh the end , through generation to generation it has been at work to shape the world, to ready the system to get the whole world ready for

the HEAD of all evil, the dragon to hand the kingdom,  the system is ready, the hearts are ready , but not for Christ ...............FOR SON OF PERDITION ANTI CHRIST

WE close to the end and less and less see it.  Many are under its spell,  and now are uniting as one more and more from the relgions to non reloigous

from wicans , to atheists to false christains to buddists , new age , politics media.  I SEE ONE COMMON GOAL and its SPIRIT is ran by SATAN.

WORLD PEACE , And its leading the world RIGHT as ONE MIND , ONE HEART , ONE SPRIIT to come full force against those who stand in the way OF WORLD PEACE.

and as more and more go under the all inclusive delusion religion which panders to all ,  in time ALL will worship the beast, with one mind , one heart

one soul as the world was led to this through religioins, through media , through politics, through songs, through the famous, through those of the dark spirit.

ITS COMING TO  A FINAL CLIMAX in which many lambs will be butchered so fast.   only most who are infected under its guise now

see what will lead the world right to this king and kings , they see its messenger as love ,as unity , as hope , as peace as tolerance.

THEY GOT no idea they under a spell, all they see is a false love , a need for world peace............if they cannot discern this as evil now

HOW On earth will they be able to discern the head when it stands, IF THEY CANNOT discen its spirit NOW.    NOPE they will see it as a man and men of PEACE LOVE and UNITY

and when ones like us are killed..............all they will see was...........THIS WAS GODS DESIRE, THIS WAS HIS WILL, fOR HIS WILL WAS WORLD PEACE AND UNITY.

OOOOS>........wrong god world , wrong god .     its coming and wont be stopped.