Faith without works is Dead

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Reinitin said:

oh then by your rule of how Christ works Paul found a false Christ. 

Care to explain your line of thought? Scripture would be beneficial although I have a sneaky suspicion you wont use it

[Reinitin]

15 minutes ago, Blueyedjewel said:

How many days are going to pass until you study up on legalism? The judiazers were legalists. 

One thing you did say is correct: legalism is doctrine of man ie pharisees. It has nothing to do with the grace given by Christ shed blood. We are bought! Christ paid the price in full. It is finished

Paul wrote it. so what are you missing? Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling?

12 So then, my dear friends, just as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now even more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13 For it is God who is working in you, enabling you both to desire and to work out His good purpose. 14 Do everything without grumbling and arguing, 15 so that you may be blameless and pure, children of God who are faultless in a crooked and perverted generation, among whom you shine like stars in the world. 16 Hold firmly to[c]the message of life. Then I can boast in the day of Christ that I didn’t run or labor for nothing. 17 But even if I am poured out as a drink offering on the sacrifice and service of your faith, I am glad and rejoice with all of you. 18 In the same way you should also be glad and rejoice with me.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Reinitin said:

 So then, my dear friends, just as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now even more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13 For it is God who is working in you, enabling you both to desire and to work out His good purpose

Who is working in me? Who is enabling me? Who gave me the desire to obey? For who's purpose? 

Romans 8:Heirs with Christ
…15For you did not receive a spirit of slavery that returns you to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” 16The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17And if we are children, then we are heirs: heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ—if indeed we suffer with Him, so that we may also be glorified with Him.…

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Reinitin said:

If people think the house God built for Paul on Christ is The only house to serve in the kngdom of heaven they are fools and should ask the Lord to remove their scales

Edited 7 hours ago by Reinitin

Where do you get this stuff?   

 There is one TRUE church and it is defined in the whole word . The head priest being Jesus Christ not Paul! 

The only ones of whom God speaks of scales on their eyes are the jews because he blinded them  for a time until the 70th week of Daniel and the lost because God has allowed satan to  blind them.

 

I dont follow you . 

 

[frienduff thaylorde]

2 hours ago, Blueyedjewel said:

Yes it if way off the rails!! It is the mother load of missing the mark !! Portrays  God The Father as an African American woman and the Holy Spirit as a mysterious Asian woman named Sarayu. These two characters as the promotion of “goddess worship” or a feminist God. Those that applaud it are lacking discernment. That is so very sad.

Thirteen other heresies of the shack.

1. God the Father was crucified with Jesus.

Because God’s eyes are pure and cannot look upon sin, the Bible says that God would not look upon His own beloved Son as He hung on the Cross, carrying our sins (Habakkuk 1:13; Matthew 27:45).

2. God is limited by His love and cannot practice justice.

The Bible declares that God’s love and His justice are two sides of the same coin – equally a part of the personality and the character of God (Isaiah 61:8; Hosea 2:19).

3. On the Cross, God forgave all of humanity, whether they repent or not. Some choose a relationship with Him, but He forgives them all regardless.

Jesus explained that only those who come to Him will be saved (John 14:6).

4. Hierarchical structures, whether they are in the Church or in the government, are evil.

Our God is a God of order (Job 25:2).

5. God will never judge people for their sins.

The Word of God repeatedly invites people to escape from the judgment of God by believing in Jesus Christ, His Son (Romans 2:16; 2 Timothy 4:1-3).

6. There is not a hierarchical structure in the Godhead, just a circle of unity.

The Bible says that Jesus submitted to the will of the Father. This doesn’t mean that one Person is higher or better than the other; just unique. Jesus said, “I came to do the will of Him who sent me. I am here to obey my Father.” Jesus also said, “I will send you the Holy Spirit” (John 4:34, 6:44, 14:26, 15:26).

 

7. God submits to human wishes and choices.

Far from God submitting to us, Jesus said, “Narrow is the way that leads to eternal life.” We are to submit to Him in all things, for His glory and because of what He has accomplished for us (Matthew 7:13-15).

8. Justice will never take place because of love.

The Bible teaches that when God’s love is rejected, and when the offer of salvation and forgiveness is rejected, justice must take place or God has sent Jesus Christ to die on the cross for nothing (Matthew 12:20; Romans 3:25-26).

9. There is no such a thing as eternal judgment or torment in hell.

Jesus’ own description of hell is vivid. It cannot be denied (Luke 12:5, 16:23).

10. Jesus is walking with all people in their different journeys to God, and it doesn’t matter which way you get to Him.

Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life, and no one will come to the Father but by me” (John 14:6).

11. Jesus is constantly being transformed along with us.

Jesus, who dwells in the splendor of heaven, sits at the right hand of God, reigning and ruling the universe. The Bible says, “In Him there is no change, for He is yesterday, today, and forever” (Hebrews 11:12, 13:8; James1:17).

12. There is no need for faith or reconciliation with God because everyone will make it to heaven.

Jesus said, “Only those who believe in me will have eternal life” (John 3:15, 3:36, 5:24, 6:40).

13. The Bible is not true because it reduces God to paper.

The Bible is God-breathed. Sure, there were many men through 1,800 years who put pen to paper (so to speak), each from different professions and different backgrounds, but the Holy Spirit infused their work with God’s words. These men were writing the same message from Genesis to Revelation. If you want to read more about the place of Christ in the Scripture, read “We Preach Christ” (2 Timothy 3:16).

https://www.movieguide.org/news-articles/thirteen-heresies-in-the-shack.html

ITS that false love version of GOD , the wont who wont send none to hell etc.   I guess it says all are forgiven.   NOT true.  the forgivness o sins is by Christ blood alone.

Its got that new age mindset.   The all roads off shoot in it.   this is the dung I am talking about.  this kind of junk really aggravates me.

I bet the muslims will love this book , they saved too , if their is no need for faith or reconciliation.  Means everyone is.   THIS TRAMPLES JESUS UNDERFOOT and counts

it UNHOLY.  I am so worn out , so worn out this this stuff.    People just love this stuff, cause it means they can love the world , love the darkness and hey its all good

Cause God is love and all will be saved.   JESUS never said all will be saved.   Did anyone ever hear JESUS say this.   Heck he even says MANY who use his name WONT BE.

That HE IS THE ONLY DOOR and that IF one LOVES HIM they keep HIS sayings.  This book is a lie .   I did not quite knew it had all that in it.  I knew of some of the new age

but man.  This might as well been written by LUCIFER.  I am so aggravated right now.  YET many I KNOW love this book .   Me.  I LOVE ONLY THE BIBLE and for good reason

most all things written and on best sellers are what the WORLD loves.  but they package it as Christain.    I am just wore out with this stuff.

WHY cant we just LOVE TRUTH GOD , why cant the church JUST be as ITS LORD and Walk as HE DID and just LOVE EVERY SAYING of HIS.

ITS BEEN MY JOY , MY GREATEST JOY to have this LOVE FROM GOD that he shed on my heart FOR HIS TRUTH amen.   No other taste will do. 

[Heleadethme]

9 hours ago, Reinitin said:

My point is Jesus saves not the faith by grace doctrin. Saying anyone that doesn't know and hail the roman road of salvation A B.C is a heritic, legalist and damnable is rediculous. People that found Christ want to be doers of the word and share his instructions and encouragments and wisdom and of course if the Holy Spirit is at work people will do acts of righteousness  and good works by the empowerment of Christ. But getting attacked anytime a person posts a scripture that isn't the 15 verse and partial verse foundation of OSAS doctrin is demonic.

Pride seems to be at the root of so much error..........Jesus is for sure greater than all false doctrine, and sometimes false doctrine is just the truth set in cement and encased in a shrine, and then they die.  Sometimes it's as though even if it is in spirit, a wrong spirit can enter in when pride gets involved, that can happen too.  God judging the pride....He will always show Himself greater.  There are many dangers, toils and snares...and the devil is always standing ready to devour it for himself as soon as something is born in spirit and comes into the light.  Oh, lead us safely home, Lord.  But all truth belongs to God, not to us, we didnt' invent it,  it is not our truth and we can't even see it lest He open it to us.........so we need to continually hold the truth in spirit then, His Spirit, it's like pouring the drink offering out back to Him to whom it belongs, constantly laying our crowns at His feet because He is the only one worthy and He is the one we are serving, not ourselves.  The Master sitting at table and we are garbed to serve Him, and only then do we get to sit down and have some more to eat.  Otherwise we stay camped out hoarding the last revelation to ourselves and glorying in it, until we starve.........His truth is an ever flowing River of living waters and that's the only thing that keeps it clean, otherwise it stagnates into denominations.  Even more deceptive is if a foul tributary of a wrong spirit starts flowing with truth and it gets mixed and becomes new age.  We must be on our guard, test ourselves, test the spirits, in the light and let the Lord search and know us, always.......and He is always so gracious and faithful to forgive and cleanse us when we confess to Him.  This is the God we serve....bending down to wash the dirty feet of such as I.  I cannot fathom......there is no pride in Him. 

[Heleadethme]

9 hours ago, Davida said:

But Reinitin, I'm late to this thread, forgive me.  But I have a question - how can people be "doers of the Word" if they don't read, know the Word, study & obey it?  I've seen some of the people that claimed that the "Spirit" was moving them - but it was clearly not the Holy Spirit, but"spirits" i.e. drunk in the spirit and other things . How does anyone know if they are "acts of righteousness & good works?"  

I missed some of the conversation too, so I'm a bit boon-doggled, if that's the right word.  Well one thing is that we need to be careful of throwing the baby out with the bathwater......salvation is not just an experience, it is a lifetime of walking and fighting the good fight of faith, and for that we need His light unto our path.........along with the helmet of salvation we need the whole armour of God including both the belt of truth and the sword of the spirit....etc.

[brakelite]

On 9/5/2017 at 11:31 PM, Yowm said:

I'm speaking of justification, not obedience once we are His child.

Oh, okay; I'm coming from the perspective laid out in the OP...that of final salvation, and what we are judged on. To me, justification makes us right before God judicially, but doesn't necessarily secure our salvation experientially. While fruit is the natural result of abiding in the vine, not everyone remains abiding, thus they are found wanting at harvest time. No fruits of righteousness.No wedding garment.

[Reinitin]

32 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

I missed some of the conversation too, so I'm a bit boon-doggled, if that's the right word.  Well one thing is that we need to be careful of throwing the baby out with the bathwater......salvation is not just an experience, it is a lifetime of walking and fighting the good fight of faith, and for that we need His light unto our path.........along with the helmet of salvation we need the whole armour of God including both the belt of truth and the sword of the spirit....etc.

Amen

[Heleadethme]

20 minutes ago, Davida said:

Of course true salvation produces "works" there is evidence, there is fruit.  But James did not say you will have spiritual experiences. I think one of the issues comes with people defining or understanding what works means. I think we need to prove everything by the Word of God.

Yes, bringing forth fruits of repentance.......and where it says you will know them by their fruits.  But we do have spiritual experiences as well, just that we have to be careful of how we respond to spiritual experiences, not to make too much of them, or camp out in any of them, or idolize.  I mean the Holy Spirit blows where and how it willeth, like the wind, we can't see the wind but we can often tell when it's blowing by the affect it's having.....and the bible is full of examples of spiritual experiences and miracles.........dreams, visions, prophecies, miracles, hearing God's voice, etc.  Works.......is tied to believing in the one whom God sent, it has to do with things like carrying our cross, trusting Him and remaining faithful through trials and testing....it is not all about how we 'behave' as such, though don't misunderstand me, that is is also a very important part of the works He is after.  What I mean is that it's the whole package of what it means to be a follower of  Christ, the benefits, the Helps, encouragements, personal instructions, as well as the responsibilities and how He changes our behaviour, how we live, and I just think who am I to exclude any of God's will and ways or limit Him by my limitations, because He is able to do exceedingly more than I could ever ask or imagine.  There are things that I can't conceive of but that's okay, because He is God, not me, and He can do anything He wants.