Faith without works is Dead

[Heleadethme]

30 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Again, your quote from Revelation has absolutely NOTHING to do with born again Christians. The White Throne judgement has to do with a judgement of works for those who refused the FREE GIFT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS through Jesus Christ our Lord. He bore the wrath due my sins...your scare tactics don't phase me. His love is sufficient.

I don't know if this will help to resolve some of these questions.....we are saved by faith in the Son of God....but how do we know we are saved.....if we are His disciples we will take up our cross and follow Him......that means to obey, even when it hurts.  So if for example a person can't even obey the simple command to get baptized.....are they in Christ?  Are they obeying or have they already fallen away by the disobedience of refusing His first command.  So the Blood of Jesus is what saves us initially, but then as some are well-saying here, we need to continue in Him, continue obeying and following, remain in Him to make it to the end.  Disobedience is sin......so if the Lord is SO gracious to reveal His Son to us and we get saved and then live a life of willful disobedience, are we still going to be saved in the end?  God is not mocked.  So, it's kind of a matter that we need to combine obedience with faith in Christ in order to be saved........remember where it talks about obeying the gospel....... but not that we give any credit to obedience for our salvation, no that is only our reasonable service.

[Heleadethme]

1 hour ago, Yowm said:

Again our salvation hinges on His perfect obedience not our imperfect obedience. Once we become His child through the new birth we are given a new heart/new nature so that we will be willing to please Him such as being baptized. One who despises baptism is indicating he has not received the new birth. All our sins were nailed to Calvary's cross not just some and we are a work in progress...His handiwork.

According to scripture it hinges on a few things.  Faith must be proven....tested and tried.  We will reign with Him IF so be that we also suffer with Him......we too must carry a cross and there is such a thing as filling up that which is behind of the sufferings of Christ.  The Lord Himself chastises us as sons for a reason, so that we may partake of His holiness, so we must endure chastening.  Salvation is just the beginning of the battle, we have a whole walk to walk with Him yet and Christ ever lives to make intercession for us, for a reason.  We have things to overcome, we must work out our own salvation, we must fight the good fight, we must endure to the end.  To the FAITHFUL He shows Himself faithful, so we also need to be faithful.  It is the obedient who will get to eat of the fat of the land, not the disobedient.  There remains a sabbath rest that we must not fail to enter.  So yes salvation is by faith, but continuing in it and making it to the end hinges on a lot of things...we have a part in it and that part is to humble ourselves and obey the Master, and even that is by His grace and strength so no glory to us, when we do these things to glorify HIM.

Just want to add.....brother, we have to run so as to WIN the prize!

Edited September 9, 2017 by Heleadethme

[Willa]

 

 

Rom 1:17  for in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; even as it has been written, "But the just shall live by faith." Hab. 2:4q

Gal 2:21  NKJV I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain."

Gal 5:18  But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under Law.

But through love serve one another.  Gal 5:14  For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in this: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Lev. 19:18

Eph 2:8 ESV For by grace you are saved, through faith, and this not of yourselves; it is the gift of God; Eph 2:9  not of works, that not anyone should boast;  Eph 2:10  for we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God before prepared that we should walk in them.

Rom 6:23  NKJV For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God iseverlasting life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Gal 5:4  LITV You are alienated from Christ, you who desire to be justified by the law. You have fallen away from grace.

Gal 1:6 ESV I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel,  Gal 1:7  which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.  Gal 1:8  But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.

 

I SPENT YEARS TRYING TO BE GOOD ENOUGH TO GO TO HEAVEN, TRAPPED BY THE ENEMY  IN FALSE TEACHING.  I THOUGHT JESUS HAD GIVEN ME A FRESH START BY FORGIVING MY SINS, AND THAT HE STILL EXPECTED MY TO TRY TO BE GOOD ENOUGH TO SEE GOD.  THIS CAUSED ME TO FALL FROM GRACE AND TRY TO ESTABLISH MY OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS.  SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS.  IT IS A FALSE GOSPEL.  

GOD WANTS US TO OBEY THE LEADING AND GUIDANCE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT TO REACH OUT TO OTHERS IN LOVE.  BY WALKING IN THE SPIRIT WE FULFILL THE GOOD WORKS THAT GOD HAS PREPARED FOR US TO DO THAT ARE AN EXPRESSION OF CHRIST IN US.  ACTS OF LOVING COMPASSION FULFILL THE LAW OF CHRIST. 

 BY NO MEANS IS GOD'S GRACE A LICENSE TO SIN.  BY BEING FREED FROM THE POWER OF SIN WE CAN CHOOSE TO SERVE GOD.  WE PRESENT OUR BODIES TO HIM TO DWELL IN AND USE US FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS TO SERVE OTHERS IN LOVE.

[Reinitin]

4 hours ago, Davida said:

It's by the Word of God we receive guidance, and judge truth by the scripture. For me, when people start talking Spirit my alarm bells start going off. I've met many who claimed it was "Spirit" guiding them but I'm pretty sure it was "spirit" 's confusing them. Deceiving spirits move around the denominations that believe in prophets & receiving a special "word" from God for others. I always found the messages vague, hazy and unclear or just a mixture of scripture used out of context and platitudes.  I find this whole thread like that, it is unclear exactly what some are saying.

Yeah, it is hard cause instead of opening scriptures and respecting one another, sentences are butchered out of context and attacked. Then you spend 15 posts trying to defend what the person perverting your words with their own imagination and had absolutley no clue about what you said. Then people start judging the crazy "he said, she said". Then by Satanic deception  your a false teacher or morman or pharasee and accused that you believe something you do not believe? Im sure people writting know what they believe and why they believe it, if a person is christian and really want to understand and help you grow in Christ. instead of attack and condemn you, they would ask you not accuse you).

Its all just pour judgment, pour study and pour behavior and pour dicernment.

Hopefully Christ is walking with most and will straighten it all out.

There is a Holy Spirit and we do need the Holy Spirit for salvation (same Spirit that raised Christ from the grave is in us who believe). We need biblical information to dicern the work of the Holy Spirit from false spirits and our flesh. Just like we need sound doctrin to discern false doctrin, false prophets, false teachers, false fruit, wolves in sheeps clothing, everthing God intrusts to us has a nasty worthless counterfit.

I dont copy and paste scriptures maybe I should but its a pain to swap screans on my phone and even get to the place i want to responde. So I just speak what is in me.

Im not teaching and dont think much in these forums is group study or teaching. My opinion of etiquitte; its our responsibilty to look it up if we remember a scripture different then its presented. try to see what they are saying before we agree or disagree. We should make sound arguments, be teachable when the word is presented but also study to prove or dispove. but my opinion is my etiqutte, I dont expect anyone else to follow it, agree with me or even care what I think:)

But i do attend to draw attacks from jezabell soirits and religious soirits but they attack truth not us. lol if you talk about the birds or flowers they are so gracious. Say Be baptised or grace and you can almost hear the knashing of teeth.

There are also some super kind and sweet spirited people in here that love the Lord.

I love to read their stuff. They take the time and lay out nice studies very effectively.

[frienduff thaylorde]

36 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

According to scripture it hinges on a few things.  Faith must be proven....tested and tried.  We will reign with Him IF so be that we also suffer with Him......we too must carry a cross and there is such a thing as filling up that which is behind of the sufferings of Christ.  The Lord Himself chastises us as sons for a reason, so that we may partake of His holiness, so we must endure chastening.  Salvation is just the beginning of the battle, we have a whole walk to walk with Him yet and Christ ever lives to make intercession for us, for a reason.  We have things to overcome, we must work out our own salvation, we must fight the good fight, we must endure to the end.  To the FAITHFUL He shows Himself faithful, so we also need to be faithful.  It is the obedient who will get to eat of the fat of the land, not the disobedient.  There remains a sabbath rest that we must not fail to enter.  So yes salvation is by faith, but continuing in it and making it to the end hinges on a lot of things...we have a part in it and that part is to humble ourselves and obey the Master, and even that is by His grace and strength so no glory to us, when we do these things to glorify HIM.

Just want to add.....brother, we have to run so as to WIN the prize!

This is the simple truth.   Its what the early church taught.   And always they knew that it was the work of grace within.  But they knew a man who loves CHRIST not

keeps not his sayings.  thus the whole body went to work encouraging one another  , provoking unto good works , to run the race. And yes our faith is to be tested and tried.

BUT even that , is truly for our own good.   THE LORD chastens all whom he loves.  ANd it is the righteous judgment of GOD that we do suffer for the Kingdom.

Yet all is for our good, UNTO HIS GLORY .   SINGIT .

[frienduff thaylorde]

1 minute ago, Yowm said:

Just a series of related questions.

How will you know when you have suffered enough with Him to obtain salvation?

How will you know when you have been chastised enough with Him to obtain salvation?

How will you know when you have fought the good fight enough with Him to obtain salvation?

How will you know when you have been obedient enough with Him to obtain salvation?

How will you know when you have been faithful enough with Him to obtain salvation?

How will you know when you have humbled yourself enough with Him to obtain salvation?

My salvation has been accomplished by ONE who is infinitely greater than I and so my confidence is in Him fully. Maybe we are saying the same thing but in a backward sort of way.

I see our motive for being obedient, suffering, faithful etc., is because we already believe the great salvation He has accomplished for us and are  convinced of His GREAT LOVE towards us ...not in order to obtain salvation.

And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
(Php 1:6)
 

For we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh—
(Php 3:3)
Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith—
(Php 3:8-9)
 

 

 

Hear the beauty of it.   THE TRUE BEAUTY.  the answer to all those questions is not about US obtaining salvation.  ITS simply REMAINING IN HIM TO THE END

That is the beauty of it.  Never once is it to be seen as something we earning.  Just all about us continuing in OUR SALVATION which is Christ

and looking diligently  lest any man fail OF the grace of GOD.    OH SING IT YOWM , JUST SING IT .

He leadeth me , as well as myself.  KNOW its not earned.   And we love that you keep asking the wonderful questions. SO as GOD

can give the answers too AND so that we can know we are on the same page.   Others need to see it.    Their is not point at which we obtain it , no certain day.

ITS JUST we continue in the completed works of Christ , IN HIM .   

[frienduff thaylorde]

Just now, frienduff thaylorde said:

Hear the beauty of it.   THE TRUE BEAUTY.  the answer to all those questions is not about US obtaining salvation.  ITS simply REMAINING IN HIM TO THE END

That is the beauty of it.  Never once is it to be seen as something we earning.  Just all about us continuing in OUR SALVATION which is Christ

and looking diligently  lest any man fail OF the grace of GOD.    OH SING IT YOWM , JUST SING IT .

He leadeth me , as well as myself.  KNOW its not earned.   And we love that you keep asking the wonderful questions. SO as GOD

can give the answers too AND so that we can know we are on the same page.   Others need to see it.    Their is not point at which we obtain it , no certain day.

ITS JUST we continue in the completed works of Christ , IN HIM .   

Its wonderful this is getting explained .   I think a few of us are on the same page.  WE just don't fully realize it yet.    I can see it.

at least four of us.   we just ironing out any assumptions we may have is all.  ITS getting explained .  the four I think for sure are on the same page.

are DYHF Perhaps B too.  but their are still things that need more ironing out in us all.   IF I missed a name its because I did not read the responses.

 

[frienduff thaylorde]

I am still a bit sad for one.    But I aint giving up .     TO THE LORD be all glory to the LORD be all praise.

[frienduff thaylorde]

48 minutes ago, Willa said:

 

 

Rom 1:17  for in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; even as it has been written, "But the just shall live by faith." Hab. 2:4q

Gal 2:21  NKJV I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain."

Gal 5:18  But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under Law.

But through love serve one another.  Gal 5:14  For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in this: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Lev. 19:18

Eph 2:8 ESV For by grace you are saved, through faith, and this not of yourselves; it is the gift of God; Eph 2:9  not of works, that not anyone should boast;  Eph 2:10  for we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God before prepared that we should walk in them.

Rom 6:23  NKJV For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God iseverlasting life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Gal 5:4  LITV You are alienated from Christ, you who desire to be justified by the law. You have fallen away from grace.

Gal 1:6 ESV I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel,  Gal 1:7  which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.  Gal 1:8  But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.

 

I SPENT YEARS TRYING TO BE GOOD ENOUGH TO GO TO HEAVEN, TRAPPED BY THE ENEMY  IN FALSE TEACHING.  I THOUGHT JESUS HAD GIVEN ME A FRESH START BY FORGIVING MY SINS, AND THAT HE STILL EXPECTED MY TO TRY TO BE GOOD ENOUGH TO SEE GOD.  THIS CAUSED ME TO FALL FROM GRACE AND TRY TO ESTABLISH MY OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS.  SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS.  IT IS A FALSE GOSPEL.  

GOD WANTS US TO OBEY THE LEADING AND GUIDANCE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT TO REACH OUT TO OTHERS IN LOVE.  BY WALKING IN THE SPIRIT WE FULFILL THE GOOD WORKS THAT GOD HAS PREPARED FOR US TO DO THAT ARE AN EXPRESSION OF CHRIST IN US.  ACTS OF LOVING COMPASSION FULFILL THE LAW OF CHRIST. 

 BY NO MEANS IS GOD'S GRACE A LICENSE TO SIN.  BY BEING FREED FROM THE POWER OF SIN WE CAN CHOOSE TO SERVE GOD.  WE PRESENT OUR BODIES TO HIM TO DWELL IN AND USE US FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS TO SERVE OTHERS IN LOVE.

So long as it aint the wrong version of love .    I am sure willa you have seen what I am bout to say.  A love is being preached in many a church

and this love DONT REJOICE in TRUTH , IT aint HOLY , and it does not honor God.  it rejoices in inquity and makes many FEEL saved by just doing good works and hugs.

THE LOVE that comes from GOD, don't exalt man nor sin , nor allow any to remain in error or sin.   IT does all to BRING GLORY TO GOD, amen. 

our repentance as seen in revelations chapter nineteen.  GIVES GOD THE GLORY , so the entire preaching of the gospel on our part gives Him glory and on the one

who hears repents and receives , it brings GOD GLORY .    Sin don't.    sin exalts our own lusts.    You be blessed willa.

[frienduff thaylorde]

16 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

Hear the beauty of it.   THE TRUE BEAUTY.  the answer to all those questions is not about US obtaining salvation.  ITS simply REMAINING IN HIM TO THE END

That is the beauty of it.  Never once is it to be seen as something we earning.  Just all about us continuing in OUR SALVATION which is Christ

and looking diligently  lest any man fail OF the grace of GOD.    OH SING IT YOWM , JUST SING IT .

He leadeth me , as well as myself.  KNOW its not earned.   And we love that you keep asking the wonderful questions. SO as GOD

can give the answers too AND so that we can know we are on the same page.   Others need to see it.    Their is not point at which we obtain it , no certain day.

ITS JUST we continue in the completed works of Christ , IN HIM .   

yes amen willa , amen.   the simple beauty of it all.