seraph Posted April 19, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 21 Topic Count: 129 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,801 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 483 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/06/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted April 19, 2005 I don't get the whole voting thing These fallible cardinals vote for an "infallible" pope? The pope becomes "infallible" when he's elected??? Or is he supposed to be infallible now? and if so, shouldn't it be apparent who they should vote for? They need a 2/3 vote (?) for a pope to be elected... so 2/3 are saying he "is" or "will be" infallible??? Shouldn't the votes be unanimous??? FTR: I do not believe the pope to be infallible. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I have some catholic friends who say that their chruch does not say that the pope is infallible in all things he does or says, I believe they told me it just pertained to doctrine and those things that make up their theology. That is just what I have been told, but can't be sure it is totally the truth. se <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks for your response, se Does anyone else have more information on this? Is it the doctrine that is considered infallible or the pope or what? Just a note concerning the Cardinal from Israel -- actually it's concerning his consecration in Israel. It was presided over by Michel Sabbah who is the Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem. As far as I know this man , Sabbah, is very anti-semetic and very pro-palestinian. This gives me pause and concern. I wonder how close the Cardinal is to Sabbah? I just don't know that. Do any of you have any further information on this ? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sandy... I searched and came across Michael Sabbah's name in many places... I listed a few comments, but further reading from various sources could give a better idea about where he stands- I wouldn't want to jump to any assumptions. You may want to google his name as well and read through the many articles... Sabbah's Messages and a biography can be found on this site. BBC News "First Noel in the city of three Christmasses" "...However, the Roman Catholic Patriarch of Jerusalem, Michael Sabbah, who conducted the mass, has issued a Christmas message, in which he called on Israel to make peace with the Palestinians. The Patriarch, himself a Palestinian, said the Jewish state held the key to war or peace. But he also appealed to his fellow Palestinians not to lose hope among what he called the growing difficulties caused by the halt in the peace process..." "THE RAVAGES OF THE JIHAD-OCCUPIED MIND" by Alyssa A. Lappen "Michael Sabbah, the Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem, taught Islamology and Arab philology for decades. According to Shoebat, he hews to Islamic jihad dogma as well. The church doctrine of Jew-hatred rests on an Islamic foundation well-laid by Sabbah's predecessors, Bat Ye'or confirms." 21 December, 2004 ISRAEL - PALESTINE Days that seem to announce peace, says Patriarch Michael Sabbah Jerusalem (AsiaNews/Agencies) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seraph Posted April 19, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 21 Topic Count: 129 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,801 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 483 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/06/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted April 19, 2005 (snip) But father if this holy pope Mistakes he can not make, What if the blokes that voted him Were wrong and made mistake? (snip) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, see THAT is my question lol. How can the fallible choose the "infallible" If infallible... why rely on being chosen by the fallible... why not appoint himself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiosh Posted April 19, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,663 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted April 19, 2005 (snip) But father if this holy pope Mistakes he can not make, What if the blokes that voted him Were wrong and made mistake? (snip) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, see THAT is my question lol. How can the fallible choose the "infallible" If infallible... why rely on being chosen by the fallible... why not appoint himself? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Honest debate is stimulating. Ridicule does not become a Christian. Shame on you. Papal Infallibility: Infallibility belongs to the Pope when, as the supreme shepherd and teacher of all the faithful, who confirms the brethren in their faith (Luke 23:32), he proclaims by a definitive act some doctrine of faith or morals. Based on John 21: 15-17 Luke 23:32 Matthew 16:18 Mt 28:19-20 JOhn 16:13 I Tim 3:15 "and the powers of death shall not prevail against it" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesussaves Posted April 19, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 210 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,144 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/14/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted April 19, 2005 I heard on the news tonight that they prayed to the Holy Ghost in the name of the saints for the right person to be chosen...and that they hoped the new pope would be a prophet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Timer Posted April 19, 2005 Group: Soapbox - Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 68 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 962 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 52 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/18/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/11/1932 Share Posted April 19, 2005 A faithful crowd gather around what people believe to be an image of the Virgin Mary under a freeway underpass in Chicago. Reuters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seraph Posted April 19, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 21 Topic Count: 129 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,801 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 483 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/06/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted April 19, 2005 (snip) Papal Infallibility: Infallibility belongs to the Pope when, as the supreme shepherd and teacher of all the faithful, who confirms the brethren in their faith (Luke 23:32), he proclaims by a definitive act some doctrine of faith or morals. Based on John 21: 15-17 Luke 23:32 Matthew 16:18 Mt 28:19-20 JOhn 16:13 I Tim 3:15 (snip) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, thank you for the verses, but that does't really answer my question- are you saying the Holy Spirit guides the fallible cardinals to choose the "infallible" pope? If he was infallible shouldn't it be easy to discern who he should be? Or he "becomes infallible" only when he proclaims a doctrine??? Besides, I consider Jesus the supreme Shepherd. I don't consider the pope my teacher. Are you saying the pope is "infallible" when he proclaims which doctrines? What if some of the faithful disagree with his proclamations (for example, praying to Mary)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerioke Posted April 19, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 97 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,850 Content Per Day: 0.84 Reputation: 128 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/19/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/11/1911 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Looks more like Elvis to me Viva Las Vegas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted April 19, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 193 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,459 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/28/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/20/1965 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Sunday, April 17, 2005 5:15 p.m. EDT Cardinal Who Warned of 'Antichrist' Rises in Betting Odds Though Cardinal Dionigi Tettamanzi is the odds-on favorite to be the next pope, global betting parlors are reporting an influx of bets on Cardinal Giacomo Biffi. "From what I can see here, there's been a lot of wagers on Biffi," Mani Sanders of Pinnacle Sports, an online gambling service based on the resort island in the Netherlands Antilles, told the Providence Journal. Cardinal Biffi, emeritus bishop of the archdiocese of Bologna, was recently listed as a 125-to-1 long shot to succeed John Paul II. But does Pinnacle know something we don't? The paper reports that as an influx of "bets were placed on Biffi in the past several days, the odds on the 76-year-old Italian had dropped to 50 to 1 by Wednesday." If Biffi does win, it will be a sign that the Church leaders are trending more conservative. Biffi is strongly anti-Masonic. He was quoted as saying Catholic churches should ban Mozart's music, as the composer was a Mason. The Church and the Masonic movement have long had an antagonistic relationship. In recent years Biffi stirred controversy by saying Italy should "protect its national identity" and stop the avalanche of Muslim immigrants. In 2000, Biffi predicted that "Europe will either become Christian again or it will become Muslim." He added ominously., "The vast majority of Muslims are coming here determined to remain outside our humanity." That same year Biffi also said that he believed the Antichrist was alive and would soon rise to prominence. Biffi told a conference meeting in Bologna that the Antichrist was a prominent philanthropist who advocated causes like human rights, the environment and ecumenicism. Biffi said that this man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Timer Posted April 19, 2005 Group: Soapbox - Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 68 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 962 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 52 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/18/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/11/1932 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Honest debate is stimulating. Ridicule does not become a Christian. Shame on you. Papal Infallibility: Infallibility belongs to the Pope when, as the supreme shepherd and teacher of all the faithful, who confirms the brethren in their faith (Luke 23:32), he proclaims by a definitive act some doctrine of faith or morals. In little things that matter not, The pope perchance may make mistake. Yet when the issue grows red hot, The pope, like God, can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serotta Posted April 19, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 496 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/18/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/20/1959 Share Posted April 19, 2005 The last couple of pages of this thread are very disappointing. I think people should pray a little more before deciding to post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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