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19 hours ago, Debp said:

Robert, you are misunderstanding what others and I have been saying.   We do not believe in universal atonement...that would mean everyone would be saved.  Universalists believe that everyone will be saved....we do not believe that.

Jesus died and rose for all....but not everyone will accept salvation.   Therefore, not everyone will be saved.

Perhaps this is a misunderstanding due to semantics.   We say something and you think we are saying something else.

 

Debp, anybody who's sins have been Atoned for can never end up in Hell!

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On Friday, October 27, 2017 at 6:59 AM, shiloh357 said:

I think we need to be clear about our terminology.   Universal salvation speaks to the heresy of Universalism wherein all people will be saved (even those who are already dead like Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, etc).

Saying that Jesus died for all men is NOT universal salvation.  The scope of Jesus' atonement reaches as far as the scope of sin.

 

I Tim. 2:6 says that Jesus gave His life as a ransom for ALL, meaning all men.

That is false teaching.   To say that "all" doesnt mean that Jesus died for every person, defies the clear meaning of the word, "all"  and the plain sense of the text and defies I Tim. 2:4,"Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."

There is no context where all simply means, "many."  Those are not interchangeable terms.  
 

A man is at enmity with God so long as that man remains in his unregenerate state.  God offers the plan of salvation to him and calls him, but man is not obligated to obey that call. Man can refuse God's call to salvation.   The ransom paid the full price, but that does not mean that all men will come to Christ.  In their foolish, stubborn rebellion, many will love their sin more than anything God offers to them.

Those who reject the offer of salvation will be punished and there is no injustice on God's part for doing so.

 

Amen a ransom for all, not for some.

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5 minutes ago, RustyAngeL said:

Amen a ransom for all, not for some.

Sorry, but scriptures do NOT preach universal salvation.

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18 hours ago, Debp said:

Robert, I said Jesus died and rose for all....but not everyone will accept His salvation.   Therefore, not everyone goes to Heaven.  If people reject Christ's offer of salvation, their sins are not atoned for.

What I said is different from the Universalists cult's belief of everyone going to be saved. 

 

 

Robert, you are misunderstanding what I am saying.  The above is what I said.  You seem to like to contend with people, rather than trying to understand what we are really saying.

Again, if people reject Christ's offer of salvation, then their sins are not forgiven, not atoned for.

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12 hours ago, Robert William said:

Sorry, but scripture does not teach universal salvation!

You have been told many many times we speak not of universal salvation but that salvation has been offered to all men by God as per the will of God
2 Peter 3:9 (KJV)
[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

and defined as elect and non elect by this verse

1 John 2:2 (KJV)
[2] And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


as the hermeneutic flows we see why all are without excuse they rejected what was freely offered


Philippians 2:10-11 (KJV)
[10] That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
 [11] And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
              As all hearts of all beings here elect and non elect ‘with all lies removed’ confirming they are without excuse... others out of joy for the way given them to be forever with God...

 

 

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12 hours ago, Robert William said:

Sorry, but scripture does not teach universal salvation!

You believe in monergism correct?

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On 12/5/2017 at 11:56 AM, enoob57 said:

You believe in monergism correct?

Yes.

 

Monergism is the view within Christian theology which holds that God works through the Holy Spirit to bring about the salvation of an individual through spiritual regeneration, regardless of the individual's cooperation. It is most often associated with Calvinism (such as Presbyterianism and the Dutch Reformed Church) and its doctrine of irresistible grace, and particularly with historical doctrinal differences between Calvinism and Arminianism. This position contrasts with Arminian synergism, the belief that God and individuals cooperate to bring individuals salvation

Monergism states that the regeneration of an individual is the work of God through the Holy Spirit alone, as opposed to Synergism, which, in its simplest form, argues that the human will cooperates with God's grace in order to be regenerated. To most synergists, regeneration is a process that begins when a man responds to God's initiative, repents, and begins the labor of loving God and his neighbor. Monergists believe that regeneration takes place as a single act in which God regenerates a man from his fleshly state and, thus now enabled, a man can believe, and that he inevitably and invariably will do so.

While most synergists hold that God initiates all the work but that the work of salvation requires man's "free will," monergists maintain that God alone initiates and completes all the work of salvation. To a monergist, a person does possess human freedom before regeneration (if by freedom, is meant the ability to choose what one wants). Yet, a man; because of his unregenerate and fallen nature is in slavery to sin (i.e. man chooses sin; because that is what he wants); because he is dead in his sin before God's regeneration and in this state he is unable to choose God (because he does not want GOD; he may want the gifts from GOD, but not GOD). Synergists, on the other hand, have varying beliefs regarding man's freedom to respond to God. According to monergism, faith in Christ only springs from a heart first renewed by God. Among various arguments, proponents believe 1Corinthians 12:3 to mean that no one can possibly confess Jesus as Lord apart from the Holy Spirit's prompting and being a true conviction of his heart.

According to monergists, all men are conceived and born with an unregenerated human nature, and faith to believe is beyond the power of this unregenerated human nature. God circumcises the heart. The apostle John is understood by some monergists as having recorded Jesus saying that we love darkness, hate the light and will not come into the light (John 3:19,20; monergists assume that "doing the truth" and "loving the light" in consequence are the results of God's irresistible grace which brings a love and faith enabled by grace. The natural man, apart from the quickening work of the Holy Spirit, will not come to Christ on his own; since he is at enmity with God; and so, will not understand spiritual things (meaning the experience of loving GOD; i.e. seeing GOD's loveliness) (1Cor 2:14). Reading or hearing the word of God alone cannot elicit saving faith in the reader(1Thess 1:4,5). The monergist believes in heralding the gospel indiscriminately, and the Holy Spirit regenerates whom He will, according to His sovereign grace.

Monergists know that once the "eyes have been made healthy" a person will inevitably follow God; because the Infinite is effective to what the Infinite wills to effect. "Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose." Philippians 2:12-13. GOD always does according to His good pleasure; and no thing can stop an infinite Being's good pleasure.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monergism

Edited by Robert William

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On 12/4/2017 at 11:50 PM, Debp said:

Robert, you are misunderstanding what I am saying.  The above is what I said.  You seem to like to contend with people, rather than trying to understand what we are really saying.

Again, if people reject Christ's offer of salvation, then their sins are not forgiven, not atoned for.

Debp, previously you wrote, that Jesus Atoned for ALL humans, that would mean that ALL humans sins are gone.

ALL humans are born depraved and will always view the things of God as foolishness.

1Co 2:14  But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

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