Who goes to hell?

[IslandRose]

OK here is my understanding of this problem in my own simple terms:

First God created the world perfect. He placed Adam and Eve in a perfect environment and they had all they needed. But sin entered the picture and they rebelled against God.

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

One thing that most people have a hard time getting a hold of is the difference between the sin nature and the act of sin. We are not sinners because we sin, rather we sin (commit acts against the law of God) because we are sinners (we have the sin nature passed down from our father Adam.)

We are separated from the Holy God because of our sin nature. In that we are all guilty. But God provided a way of salvation through His Son, Jesus. All of us who claim to be in Christ agree with this so far I believe.

But what of those who have never heard...

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath showed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Romans 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Those who have not heard the good news are responsible to keep to perfection the law that has been revealed unto them. If they break it in any part, if their conscience is in anyway offended, they are held responsible for their transgression of the law. Has any man any where ever been able to live a perfect life, not in any way offending his own conscience? Only one man has ever been able to do that.

I do believe that if any man truly is seeking after God and His way, that God will make a way for him to be saved. Unfortunately we read:

Romans 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Rarely will you hear of this, and yet, I have heard stories from missionaries who have to of people telling them after they were saved that they had prayed and asked God to send someone to them to tell them the right way to serve Him.

As far as babies and those who are forever mentally incompetent, I believe that they never come to a place where they violate their conscience and so they never become accountable for their sin.

It's late so I hope I have explained this in clear terms..

IR

[Fiosh]

OK here is my understanding of this problem in my own simple terms:

First God created the world perfect.  He placed Adam and Eve in a perfect environment and they had all they needed.  But sin entered the picture and they rebelled against God. 

Romans 5:12  Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

One thing that most people have a hard time  getting a hold of is the difference between the sin nature and the act of sin.  We are not sinners because we sin, rather we sin (commit acts against the law of God) because we are sinners (we have the sin nature passed down from our father Adam.) 

We are separated from the Holy God because of our sin nature.  In that we are all guilty.  But God provided a way of salvation through His Son, Jesus.    All of us who claim to be in Christ agree with this so far I believe.

But what of those who have never heard...

Romans 1:18  For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19  Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath showed it unto them.

20  For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Romans 2:11  For there is no respect of persons with God.

12  For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

13  (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

14  For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15  Which show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

16  In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. 

Those who have not heard the good news are responsible to keep to perfection the law that has been revealed unto them.  If they break it in any part, if their conscience is in anyway offended, they are held responsible for their transgression of the law.  Has any man any where ever been able to live a perfect life, not in any way offending his own conscience?  Only one man has ever been able to do that.

I do believe that if any man truly is seeking after God and His way, that God will make a way for him to be saved.  Unfortunately we read:

Romans 3:11  There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Rarely will you hear of this, and yet, I have heard stories from missionaries who have to of people telling them after they were saved that they had prayed and asked God to send someone to them to tell them the right way to serve Him.

As far as babies and those who are forever mentally incompetent, I believe that they never come to a place where they violate their conscience and so they never become accountable for their sin.

It's late so I hope I have explained this in clear terms..

IR

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I appreciate the effort, but no, you didn't answer my question....

I'm not trying to be purposely obtuse, but it's a simple yes or no question. An "I don't know" is understandable, but I honestly can't tell if your answer is a "yes" or "no".

{I can relate to your being tired...so I do truly appreciate your time.}

My question was...

Do you and your brothers/sisters here at WB believe that children and all Jews, and Native Americans pre-1492, and all those who died before the Word reached their part of the world, etc...will go to hell?

This is what I don't quite understand.

Yes or no???

Peace,

Fiosh

[Guest Bro David™]

Bro', maybe you can talk straight with me.  Please don't just throw verses at me---I know them.  I read my Bible daily.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I seriously do not see how I did not talk straight with you.

I gave you that verse and did not throw it at you.

Not everyone who reads the Bible knows the Bible and the meaning it entails.

Here's the thing....

I can't understand how someone could think that a little child will go to hell. I also have trouble understanding how you could think a sincere Jew could go to hell.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Matthew 18

1 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying,

Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?

2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,

3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and

become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

It states plainly there that ALL the young ones and those who think innocently like the young ones will go into Heaven.

Salvation.

On your thoughts if a sincere jew would go to hell, I again would not want to assume anything.

I again rely on the word of God for understanding.

So will Jews go to heaven? Yes, but only those who have put their faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. (These Jewish believers are sometimes known today as Messianic Jews). There needs to be a separation between Jews (who are so by birth) and those whose faith is Judaism. Judaism does not believe that the Messiah (Christ) has come and they are still are waiting for a Savior. For this reason they have rejected Jesus Christ and cannot be saved (i.e. go to heaven). This Jew (Paul), who wrote the following, is one that has gone to heaven.

I say then, has God cast away His people (the Jews)? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, "Lord, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life"? But what does the divine response say to him? "I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal." Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. (Romans 11:1-5, NKJ)

Salvation is found only through placing your faith and trust in Jesus Christ alone -- not by works -- nor can it ever be found by following after a Jesus other than the one revealed in Scriptures. The Jesus of Scriptures is fully God, fully man, sinless, eternally part of the one true God -- who is forever Father, Son and Holy Spirit. His sacrifice on the cross was the perfect and complete payment for the sins of mankind.

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9, NKJ)

[Lion Tracks] 2002-WBA

Do you and your brothers/sisters here at WB believe that children and all Jews, and Native Americans pre-1492, and all those who died before the Word reached their part of the world, etc...will go to hell?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I could not presume to answer for everyone at WB, I will however choose to answer it in how I belive it to be so.

The Bible records that PRIOR to his death on the cross, a great many were told their FAITH in Jesus (as the messenger or Word of God) had saved them.

Most every passage in the Bible that links Jesus with salvation, focuses on this belief.

In my opinion, God will not turn away people who seek His mercy, even if their understanding of Him is vague and they lack historical knowledge of Christ.

Some of God

[yomotalking]

Looking forward into the future, I am so glad Jesus won't come back 'til the gospel has been preached in every part of the world, so no more people can be lost, without having heard of Jesus Christ.

Getting back into the question of the thread......

If a child died and never heard of God, then I don't think he would be held accountable, for he/she has not reached the age of "understanding". I totally agree with this!

As for people who go to hell, the Bible clearly states:

"All those whose names were not written in the Book of Life were cast into the Lake of Fire"..........

1DIEM;

When you wrote:

It is sad that many people will suffer this fate.

Yes, it is sad...........it's heartbreaking..........

Yomo

[IslandRose]

My question was...

Do you and your brothers/sisters here at WB believe that children and all Jews, and Native Americans pre-1492, and all those who died before the Word reached their part of the world, etc...will go to hell?

This is what I don't quite understand. 

Yes or no???

Peace,

Fiosh

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Children who have not yet reached an age where they are aware of their transgressions....no.

Anyone else who has never heard the gospel but has in any way violated their own conscience ..... yes. They stand condemned. As I have said more than once, the onus is upon us to be sure those living now can hear the gospel of Christ.