simplejeff Posted November 30, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted November 30, 2017 Excerpt from an unknown book online: "As God's child, you should realize that if you do not apologize and ask forgiveness from a person against whom you have sinned, your spiritual life will be adversely affected if that one mentions your name with sighing before God. The gifts you offer to God will not be accepted, and your prayers will not be heard. His sigh will ..." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 2 Posted November 30, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 499 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 277 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/06/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted November 30, 2017 Mat 6:12 and forgive us our sins, as we have forgiven those who have sinned against us. What bearing does this verse from the "Our Father" have on the Matthew verse in question? They're both in the same passage Mat 6:15 But if you do not forgive people their offenses, your Father will not forgive your offenses." Can it be similar to Mat 7:2 because the way that you judge others will be the way that you will be judged, and you will be evaluated by the standard with which you evaluate others. By setting a standard for which we are willing to judge someone we then set the same standard to which we say "If I were to go beyond that I would be judged this way" Could it be that in light of Mat 6:12 that if we set the standard that " I am only willing to forgive this much sin", we also say to ourselves, "God would never forgive me if I did the same thing" You see forgiveness is freely handed to us, but if we don't accept it.....it hasn't been received and it's fullness is not realized. If we don't receive the Fathers forgiveness the forgiveness is not complete and although the Father wants to give it it cannot be fulfilled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 2 Posted November 30, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 499 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 277 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/06/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted November 30, 2017 (edited) 22 minutes ago, simplejeff said: Excerpt from an unknown book online: "As God's child, you should realize that if you do not apologize and ask forgiveness from a person against whom you have sinned, your spiritual life will be adversely affected if that one mentions your name with sighing before God. The gifts you offer to God will not be accepted, and your prayers will not be heard. His sigh will ..." We hear over and over again that IF we ask God for forgiveness we will receive it but where does it say in the bible that we must ask for forgiveness of sins. Edited November 30, 2017 by Mike 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 2 Posted November 30, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 499 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 277 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/06/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted November 30, 2017 We hear over and over again that IF we ask God for forgiveness we will receive it but where does it say in the bible that we must ask for forgiveness of sins. I don't believe it does because forgiveness is something that is given, not asked for. An apology is the approach to receiving forgiveness and that apology is only valid if it is done with the intent of not letting the transgression happen again. (repentance). If we are not willing to forgive a certain thing, that then indicates that we feel there is no repentance possible, if we in turn commit the same transgression we then put ourselves in the position of doing something that we feel is unredeemable and God cannot possibly forgive me for. Although the forgiveness is freely offered from God we think it is impossible and in so doing, God "can not" forgive us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted November 30, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 minute ago, Mike 2 said: We hear over and over again that IF we ask God for forgiveness we will receive it but where does it say in the bible that we must ask for forgiveness of sins. Think on this a little, if someone is holding a note that you owe, and it is payable on demand, or at some specific time in the future, and you cannot in any way ever hope to cover it, would you ever then think of going to the person to seek them to release you from it ? (or to work it out in a way so that they do not get everything you have and/or so that they cannot throw you in prison until the last penny is paid ?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted November 30, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.10 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted November 30, 2017 38 minutes ago, simplejeff said: Excerpt from an unknown book online: "As God's child, you should realize that if you do not apologize and ask forgiveness from a person against whom you have sinned, your spiritual life will be adversely affected if that one mentions your name with sighing before God. The gifts you offer to God will not be accepted, and your prayers will not be heard. His sigh will ..." That's just a book written by man; it's not Scripture. And not relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted November 30, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted November 30, 2017 23 minutes ago, Mike 2 said: We hear over and over again that IF we ask God for forgiveness we will receive it but where does it say in the bible that we must ask for forgiveness of sins. Don't worry about this. The overall instructions and training of the GOOD SHEPHERD JESUS is virtually unknown here on earth. (as seen by most threads and posts written by men) He is the ONE to FOLLOW, not men. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 2 Posted November 30, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 499 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 277 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/06/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 minute ago, simplejeff said: Think on this a little, if someone is holding a note that you owe, and it is payable on demand, or at some specific time in the future, and you cannot in any way ever hope to cover it, would you ever then think of going to the person to seek them to release you from it ? (or to work it out in a way so that they do not get everything you have and/or so that they cannot throw you in prison until the last penny is paid ?) I would have to realize that I cannot pay them back. Go to them and apologize for putting them in the position I have and then ask them if there is anyway that they can work something out. It will only work if 1) they understand that I believe I have truly done something wrong. 2) I know that their forgiveness will be based on knowing I truly believe I will do what it takes to not to let it happen again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted November 30, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 minute ago, Mike 2 said: It will only work if 1) they understand that I believe I have truly done something wrong. 2) I know that their forgiveness will be based on knowing I truly believe I will do what it takes to not to let it happen again If they choose to release you from the debt, it doesn't matter what they think you believe. Also, it doesn't matter what you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 2 Posted November 30, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 499 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 277 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/06/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 minute ago, simplejeff said: Don't worry about this. The overall instructions and training of the GOOD SHEPHERD JESUS is virtually unknown here on earth. (as seen by most threads and posts) He is the ONE to FOLLOW, not men. I beg to differ ... We are constantly telling people that we are to ask God for forgiveness when we know that it has already been given. We should not be telling people that they need to ask God for forgiveness so they can be in a good relationship with Him. We should be telling them ...You know how much God loves you, Ill tell you, He has already forgiven you, even the worst you have done, He didnt put any , any stipulation on it, you just gotta accept it. I think there is more to understand about the questions brought up around the verses in the OP and the GOOD SHEPHERD JESUS has not left a lofty mystery but has actually given us the understanding, we just need to talk it out and learn. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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