Guest yod Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 praise God that SOMEONE still preaches fire and brimstone!!!!! I doubt that there is enough of that. It takes more guts than most preachers have these days... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keslc Posted April 13, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 25 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 745 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/27/1976 Share Posted April 13, 2005 I completely understand what you are saying. I too feel discouraged to see people on the street corners basically picking fights with passers-by and yelling and shaking their fist at them, and calling it evangelism. HOWEVER, as was brought up, balance is very nessecary and there are times when we must share the wrath of God as well as His love. Otherwise, we can be mislead into false doctrines and we can mislead others. We are warned in 2 Timothy 4:3 "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teacher in accordance to their own desires." We cannot only accept the truths we WANT to hear about God, but all of the truths He has given in His word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted April 13, 2005 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,309 Content Per Day: 7.55 Reputation: 28,062 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted April 13, 2005 Well, the most productive presentation I have seen used with average people is to start with everyone. Everyone is on their way to hell. Humankind is just not capable of standing up to God's standards. Tell one little lie, on your way to hell; lust after one man/woman, on your way to hell; hate someone without very good cause, on your way to hell; ever taken something that was not yours (even a pen or pencil from work, on your way to hell. Every one on this planett deserves to be thrown into the fires and done away with. However, God has made a way for us go be with Him throughout eternity, and if you are interested..... lets talk about it. This way you can show anyone that they along with the whole world are on the way to hell, and let them know that you used to be in that same position, but there is a different road through eternity. That way people don't usually feel like you are comdemning them, but offering them out of a place you used to be in yourself. It still lets people know that they are truly on the way to hell without forcing them to become defensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keslc Posted April 13, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 25 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 745 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/27/1976 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Well, the most productive presentation I have seen used with average people is to start with everyone. Everyone is on their way to hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VisionLife Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 I was simply talking about the approach, not the longstanding friendship or discipleship that may be gained after a loving approach is taken. Someday I know God will allow me the opportunity to share my testimony with other young people who have spent a large majority of their lives on the streets. I attend Scum of The Earth church here in Denver, Colo. and the head pastor got up and said to the entire congregation that God wants leaders who have been completely broken in life. God wants people who have been there and hit rock bottom. Out of all the churches I've ever attended or visited (there's a lot of them!) I've never heard a pastor speak so candidly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IslandRose Posted April 13, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 476 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,266 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 63 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/21/1954 Share Posted April 13, 2005 I believe that you have to be led by the Holy Spirit in what approach to take with each person. There are some people who are so moved by the love of God sending His to die that they will turn to Him. Others will need to know the consequences of our sin to understand the seriousness of this decision. Jude 1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference: 23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted April 13, 2005 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,309 Content Per Day: 7.55 Reputation: 28,062 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted April 13, 2005 I personally have not seen any good results of offering Jesus as fire insurance. People may take out a policy, but does it really change them the way it should, or do they just fill up the seats on Sunday?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerioke Posted April 14, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 97 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,850 Content Per Day: 0.83 Reputation: 128 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/19/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/11/1911 Share Posted April 14, 2005 My concern is that there are people who will disregard the truth to win debates. If Jeses needed us to cover up for Him I would think His ministry would have went the way of Jim Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christ's Free Servant Posted April 14, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 197 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,461 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/18/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/31/1949 Share Posted April 14, 2005 A couple of weeks ago I was at Auraria campus here in Denver, Colo. and I was listening to this young man as he talked about the truth of the Bible in a very judgemental, condescending manner. He was basically telling other young adult college students that they were going to hell if they didn't change there ways and that God's judgement would be swift and just. I have a problem with this approach. I was brought up in a very legalistic environment. My father is a former Independent Baptist minister. His approach to evangelizing is of the fire and brimstone genre. The way I see it is completely different. We live in a hurting, dying world. There is sickness of the mind and body all around us. I've taken the time and opportunity to show God's love to others through acts of kindness. I see a world that is in dire need of God's love, mercy and grace. The same love, mercy and grace we have received through Jesus Christ. It pains me to see street preachers and supposed evangelists spout their 'holier than thou' jargon at a world that is sick and tired of hearing the former. I have personally known God's unconditional love through selfless acts of His people. We are not here to be God's instruments of judgement. It brings me to tears when I think of the people out there who are dying inside, much the same way I was before I came to Christ. While churches grapple over theological differences and ministries go bankrupt because of unsavory financial practices single mothers and other disenfranchised people in our world are suffering and dying because of our selfishness. We worry about and protect those around us that we love and shun those we do not know. At church many of us ignore new visitors or people we consider unsavory. Well it's time to wake up and smell the coffee people. Heaven is not a popularity contest and God is no respecter of persons. From the bottom of my heart I'm asking everyone who reads this post to search deep within yourselves and ask God what sacrifice(s) he wants you to make in your life. Who does God want me to help? Who does God want you to reach out to? Please take the time to care. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I hear you! I've been down much the same road as you. I grew up in a very legalistic home environment. My dad was abusing all of us in every way possible and hitting us over the head with the Bible all at the same time. Three of my siblings rejected Christianity for a time because of the obvious contradictions, but one sister and I clung to God with all our hearts. God became my father and my mother and my closest and dearest friend. He would listen to my cries and he would not criticize me or yell at me (well, a couple of times he had to yell at me), but he would take me in his arms and comfort and encourage and instruct and sometimes rebuke me, too. But, I always knew his rebuke was in love. This is why I have such a close relationship with him to this date. I went on the bandwagon of trying to rescue all the hurting, all the rejected and neglected, all the oppressed and forsaken and forgotten, and I'm still ministering to those who have been rejected and neglected. But, I have learned something in the process. It is called "tough love." You see, God is both a God of grace, mercy and love and he is a God of justice and judgment and wrath. The old time way of doing things was to preach mainly the wrath part of God and to try to scare people out of hell and into heaven, and if this is not done in love, mixed with God's grace, then you are right, it will turn people away from Christianity. Nonetheless, the problem with the popular teaching of today is that we want all grace, mercy and love but we don't want to accept God's chastisement, correction, discipline, etc. We want to see only the "good" side of God, and so what happens is we have this distorted view of God as this big cuddly grandfather who will let us get away with murder all in the name of "grace." But, God is not like that. Ok, I do have a point here. I totally agree with what you are saying and I feel what you are saying from personal experience and I agree that the preachers you speak of are probably preaching harshly, but the scriptures do talk much about the other side of God and to preach accurately, we must give the whole message. God does love us and he is gracious and forgiving and patient with us, but he will send people to hell and hell is real and he will pour out his wrath upon this world of ours in the very near future. So, we have to find the right balance. We can't be all "I'm ok, you're ok, everyone's ok," but at the same time we can't be all heavy handed either. It is a difficult balance. But, we need to not forget to stand in awe of God and to humble ourselves before him and we need not forget to fear him with a healthy fear and respect. I think this is lost today, honestly. Sorry for going on so long. This has all been a transition in my life from a harsh judgmental legalistic upbringing to all grace, kindness, love, etc. to finding the right balance between tolerance in order to love and confronting sin out of true love. And, I must admit that I don't always balance both sides very well, but I'm learning. It is really odd that God would choose me to give messages of God's judgments, because I have fought so hard for people to feel loved, accepted, needed, valued and wanted most all of my life. I still do fight that fight, but at the same time God is saying that "tough love" is coming, because people have failed to honor God as God and to stand in awe of him. Well, he used Paul, a killer of Christians to be the leader of the Christian movement at that time in history, so why not use someone who has rejected the idea of judgment most of her life to be a deliverer of God's message of his coming judgments. We need to find the right balance, we need to examine the motives of our hearts, and we need to make sure whatever we are doing we are doing it in love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christ's Free Servant Posted April 14, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 197 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,461 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/18/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/31/1949 Share Posted April 14, 2005 I see what you are trying to say, but I also must direct you to the fact that if you tell someone that God is only love, they won't have a proper fear of God that is required. Ray Comfort put it in the terms of telling someone in a plane about to crash that a pararchute would enchance their ride instead of saving them from certain destruction. We need to find the ballance between love and judgment. We need to account for the entire personality of God, not just the love and compassion. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Very well stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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