Sister Posted December 8, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 17 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,727 Content Per Day: 1.04 Reputation: 2,305 Days Won: 5 Joined: 06/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted December 8, 2017 5 hours ago, Unfailing Presence said: Sister , God did not cause any of the obedient & faithful to be killed during the Passover. I was asking for examples in scripture where God abandons large numbers of the obedient & faithful to death ? Unfailing Presence Sorry I misunderstood because you gave the example of this; Quote For example the well known instance of this remnant theme where King Nebuchadnezzar threw all three faithful and obedient servants of God Shadrach , Meshach , Abednego into the tribulation of the fiery furnace , allowing Meshach and Abednego to burn to death , but rapturing Shadrach away from the fiery flames . I just saw the names of the three and remembered the story that these three were saved, but I didn't notice until now that you said that Meshach and Abednego was burnt to death?....which didn't happen as all three were saved. So maybe a typo error? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 51 minutes ago, inchrist said: Really doesnt sound like it all With your following statement Read your Bible. Dan. 9:27. The "one week" is the 7 year covenant which marks the beginning of the Tribulation It is possible to have complete confidence in one's view on something like the rapture, and still allow for the possibility that you might be wrong. Quote provide evidence as such By claiming that being a dispensationalist/pre-tribber is akin to the curse of Balaam and connecting that curse to failing to keep the commandments of God/Torah. ' You made that connection and so you believe that pre-tribber /dispensationalists are under that curse and no one under that curse can be a believer at the same time. Ultimately, though you don't have the manly courage to admit it publicly, you do attach salvation to works. Quote Really? This is the common held belief on the topic to prove pretrib In the next several sections, we will further discuss the differences between the dispensations of Law, grace, and judgment, where the Law covered the time from Moses to the cross, grace covers the time from the cross to the Tribulation, and judgment covers the Tribulation period. This discussion of dispensations will lay the groundwork to understand why the rapture of the Church must occur before the Tribulation begins. ://trackingbibleprophecy.org/rapture.php Yep, like I said, no connection to Balaam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted December 8, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,629 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,368 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted December 8, 2017 10 hours ago, Unfailing Presence said: I must have missed them then . Which example of a faithful and obedient group of God's children being allowed by God to suffer death from a specific threat , with only a " remnant " being spirited away to safety was given in this thread ? If you would , please give me the page number and the author of that example ? I would love to read it ? I know of no example that fits the conditions you propose. As far as I know, my knowledge on this may be incomplete, our Father keeps the faithful safe, always. I apologize for misunderstanding your question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inchrist Posted December 8, 2017 Group: Non-Trinitarian Followers: 3 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 3,490 Content Per Day: 0.96 Reputation: 88 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted December 8, 2017 (edited) 14 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: It is possible to have complete confidence in one's view on something like the rapture, and still allow for the possibility that you might be wrong. But youre not allowing for that possibility by telling people to go read their bible and by posttrib and mid trib contradicting the words of christ. Lets be honest, your stubborness is preventing you from such a possibility. Quote believer at the same time Of cause they can, is God not allowed to discipline a believer? Hebrews 12:7-11New International Version (NIV) 7 Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children. For what children are not disciplined by their father Yep, like I said, no connection to Balaam. So much for your talk on the possibility you could be wrong. Edited December 8, 2017 by inchrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted December 8, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,629 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,368 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted December 8, 2017 11 hours ago, Psalms37:4 said: I'm sure you've posted your view on the rapture numerous times on Worthy. I just haven't read them yet because I don't get a chance to read all posts. So are you post-trib or the new rapture view "pre wrath/post trib?" A distinction must be made. It's not my view. I didn't create any particular scenario. I learned a pretrib rapture in the beginning, a view held by many. By learning to study and listen I found many do indeed hold, 'views' on many biblical concepts. Most of what I learned while in the church was always a spin on the real concepts. I have let the scriptures speak and conform my thinking to what the Lord is saying. There is no 'rapture' as defined by mankind. There is only a 'gathering of the elect' as Jesus said in Matt 24, and as Paul talked about in 2 Thess. A gathering that takes place sometime after the A of D when Jesus returns. In mans terms I guess that would fall into a prewrath system. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 (edited) 11 minutes ago, inchrist said: But youre not allowing for that possibility by telling people to go read their bible and by posttrib and mid trib contradicting the words of christ. I am allowing for the possibility of being wrong. But at this point, I don't think I am wrong. I do think that mid trib and post trib contradict the words of Jesus. I am every bit as confident in my view as you are in yours. Quote Lets be honest, your stubborness is preventing you from such a possibility. I can afford to be stubborn when I think I am right. Quote Of cause they can, is God not allowed to discipline a believer? Hebrews 12:7-11New International Version (NIV) 7 Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children. For what children are not disciplined by their father Cursing and disciplining are not the same thing. Quote So much for your talk on the possibility you could be wrong. No, you simply never made a good case that dispensationalism puts anyone under the curse of balaam. It's a pretty ignorant and silly claim, to be honest. Edited December 8, 2017 by shiloh357 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted December 8, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,629 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,368 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted December 8, 2017 9 hours ago, Unfailing Presence said: Not there I guess since God saved them all and caused none of them to suffer the tribulation of the fiery furnace . Well I know there are other multiple examples in scripture demonstrating this common theme of God allowing the majority of those , obedient & faithful , to perish while rapturing away a small remnant . What about the time God's people where being pursued by Pharaoh's army to the edge of the Red sea and they all died in the waters trying to escape except for a small remnant God saved ? I don't see where any Israelis died in the Red Sea parting. Pharaoh's army was drowned, but no Jews. Unless I'm mistaken. Got chapter and verse? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inchrist Posted December 8, 2017 Group: Non-Trinitarian Followers: 3 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 3,490 Content Per Day: 0.96 Reputation: 88 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted December 8, 2017 17 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: I am allowing for the possibility of being wrong. But at this point, I don't think I am wrong. I do think that mid trib and post trib contradict the words of Jesus. I am every bit as confident in my view as you are in yours. I can afford to be stubborn when I think I am right. Contradicting yourself, you can not maintain a position of stubberness and be open to being wrong. At this point in time youll defiantly remain stubborn until God proves you wrong not God working through other believers proving that youre wrong. Thats a big difference. Cursing and disciplining are not the same thing. You might want to study King David abit. A believer, who ended up violating Gods laws and yet still a believer cursed and disciplined David then said to Abishai and all his officials, "My son, my own flesh and blood, is trying to kill me. How much more, then, this Benjamite! Leave him alone; let him curse, for the LORD has told him to. No, you simply never made a good case that dispensationalism puts anyone No youre ignoring the connection. Big difference. Again stubberness does not allow for the possibility of being wrong. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unfailing Presence Posted December 8, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 649 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 170 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/26/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 8, 2017 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Diaste said: I don't see where any Israelis died in the Red Sea parting. Pharaoh's army was drowned, but no Jews. Unless I'm mistaken. Got chapter and verse? Right you are I forgot that God saved the all those obedient to Him from it . One of the rare instances where a " remnant " from the obedient & faithful was not required , and the majority of the faithful & obedient where not caused to perish . My bad . Well, we know there are multiple example throughout both old and new testament of this common theme where God causes the great majority of those faithful & obedient to suffer the consequences of some dire circumstance , while saving a " remnant " . Would you like to give one ? Edited December 8, 2017 by Unfailing Presence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 (edited) 24 minutes ago, inchrist said: Contradicting yourself, you can not maintain a position of stubberness and be open to being wrong. I am not stubborn. I am confident. And arrogant cult-like people such as you get frustrated when you encounter people who think for themselves instead of cow-towing to your teachings. I am not contradicting anything I have said. I can be confident that I am correct and still be open to the possibility of new data that might cause me to change my mind entirely or simply tweak what I believe. I am sorry that you are not competent to understand that. Quote At this point in time youll defiantly remain stubborn until God proves you wrong not God working through other believers proving that youre wrong. Thats a big difference. I am open to being corrected by God. I am not open to being corrected by a sinner, who rejects the deity of Jesus. Quote You might want to study King David abit. A believer, who ended up violating Gods laws and yet still a believer cursed and disciplined David then said to Abishai and all his officials, "My son, my own flesh and blood, is trying to kill me. How much more, then, this Benjamite! Leave him alone; let him curse, for the LORD has told him to. Discipline and the curse of Balaam are not the same thing. God disciplines us but as believers he does not curse us. It is unbelievers, idolators who worship a Jesus who is not God that are under a curse for their idolatry. Quote No youre ignoring the connection. Big difference. Again stubberness does not allow for the possibility of being wrong. I am not being stubborn. You cannot discern the things of God and that is evidenced in your inability to know the difference between the discipline of God for believers and the curse of God that is reserved for those who are not believers, such as those unbelievers who deny the deity of Jesus. Edited December 8, 2017 by shiloh357 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts