The historicity of the pre-trib rapture of the Church has always come directly from the Bible

[Justin Adams]

9 minutes ago, Yowm said:

You first say, 'no one has a handle on it all' but then you go on to quote someone who acts as if they did.

You missed a word. COMPLETE. Furthermore; one word in a prophesy book's publication has brought in millions...

Please try not to misquote me brother.

I have sufficient knowledge to smell a rat when someone it peddling questionable ideas as 'truth'.  No one can possibly KNOW about prophesy until it has happened. But they CAN know if there is something fishy about a doctrine. That is why we can determine Daniel's prophesy since it has happened and it fits well.

Edited December 13, 2017 by Justin Adams

[Justin Adams]

2 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Okay, no one has a 'complete' handle on it all. That only strengthens my case about the article.

Speaking of the article...source??

To admit a weakness shows strength.

See source below.

All we ever do is have opinions after all. My opinion is that the vast house of cards we call 'pre-trib' is in fact a huge mistake and can lead believers astray. I do NOT want to be responsible for that.
Prophesy is for encouragement not life-style changes. Prophesy is NEVER known to be valid until after the fact. You cannot expect believers to base their futures on a prophesy.

Believers CAN and MUST base their lives on Yeshua's death and resurrection FACTS about Salvation and Propitiation.

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/daniel-9-prophecy-no-seven-year-tribulation.1981359/

[Daniel 11:36]

Justin is not giving the whole picture of scripture

Here are two examples  

Zechariah 14, Revelation 12:6-17

The 70th week for Israel is still pending

[Quasar93]

10 hours ago, missmuffet said:

Let me take a stab at it. The rapture of the Church before the tribulation.

Bulls eye!   Amen to that!

 

Quasar93

[Daniel 11:36]

True

[Justin Adams]

9 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Thanks for admitting it is your opinion.

There is very little anywhere that is not the opinion of man and his imagination. Thus it behooves us to be very careful of the the words we utter. Even Chinese-whispers can become riddled with error. This Yahweh chose fallible humans to transcribe what He wanted known, in spite of their many and various world-views. The words of caution, 'that angels long to look into' should make us doubly certain of His brilliance in keeping truth very close to His chest and His ways are past finding out.

Edited December 13, 2017 by Justin Adams

[Quasar93]

5 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

1) Create a false reading of Daniel and the so-called 'week' 2000 years after the resurrection.

(do not tell everyone it has already been fulfilled - do NOT suggest they read history)

2) Jump thru hoops of imagination and 'fit' this to a '7 year trib' that supposedly 'Daniel' mentioned

(imagination gone awry)

3) Invent by extreme hypothetical doctrine that all believers get 'rescued' from this 'trib'

(make sure this is an easy out for those not wanting to be 'tested')

4) Totally obscure scriptures about a second coming, catching -up and wrath etc.

(really use your imagination here to mislead believers)

5) Hey-presto! You invented the pre-trib rapture. One more of the 18th century fake doctrines.

Forget to mention the 500 M+ that Rome killed and the umpteen millions of Israelis slaughtered world-wide since the resurrection. Forget to mention the pig killed on the temple altar Circa 70 AD.
In fact, obscure reading the scriptures except for YOUR carefully chosen texts [out of context].

 

Negative!  Review the Scriptural facts about the, "Seventy Weeks Are Determined Upon Thy People," below:

The following is a complete analysis Of the amazing prophecy found in the book of Daniel. We will begin in Dan.9:24 where the angel Gabriel is giving this prophecy to Daniel, the prophet.

"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and the prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy."

1. Referrence here is to what God has decreed upon Daniel's people, Israel. [It has nothing at all to do with the church!]

2. See Gen.29:27 to explain that this biblical term of "one week" equals seven years. So the 70 weeks here, represents a total of 490 years, or 7 X 70.]

Vs.25. "Know, therefore, and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah, the Prince, shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks; [49 + 420 + 14 = 483 years, covering 69 of the 70 weeks,] the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times." [See Neh.2:1-8.]

According to Sir Robert Armstrong, of the Royal Observatory, Greenwich, England, the exact date of King Artaxerxes, of Persia, gave the decree for some of the Israeli exiles to return to Jerusalem on March 14, 446 BC.

[From 446 B.C. to Messiah the Prince, in Dan.9:25, equates into 69 Weeks, or 483 years, leaving the 70th and final Week of 7 years yet to be fulfilled].

From the 69 weeks [Of years] from above, or 483 years, multiplied by the 360 days of the Hebrew year, equals 173,880 days.

Vs.26. "And after threescore and two weeks..."[Which followed the first 7 weeks, or 49 years of vs 25, referring to the dedication of the completed building of the city and walls of Jerusalem, in the 32nd year of the Persian king, Artaxerxes, in the 7th month, [Neh.5:14 and 8:1] leaving 62 more weeks, or 434 more years [For a total of 69 weeks, or 483 years] to the triumphant entry of Jesus into Jerusalem]. Culminating in a total of 69 weeks, or 483 years from the Persian King, Artaxerxes Decree on March 14th, 446 BC. and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary, and the end of it shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."

After Jesus was crucified, the Roman [prince] Titus comes with his legions and destroyed Jerusalem and the second temple in 70 AD, after bitter fighting, scattering Israel and the Jewish people into their diaspora.

To establish the time Jesus began His ministry, and approximate age, we find the evidence in Luke 3:1 and 3:23.

Lk.3:1. "Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilot being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip, tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Thrachonitis and Lysanias, the tetrarch of Abilene, Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John, the son of Zacharias, in the wilderness."

Which brings us to 29 AD and Jesus is about 30 years of age.

Lk.3:23. "And Jesus Himself began to be about 30 years of age, [When all Jewish priests begin their priesthood.]being [as was supposed] the son of Joseph, who was the son of Heli,"

Back to Daniel's prophecy of 70 weeks of years decreed upon his people, for a moment. We have determined as we fast close on all of the 69 weeks, 483 years, and 173,880 days in the Hebrew 360 day year as to exactly where it will take us.

Jn.12:12-13. "On the next day many people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem, Took branches of palm trees and and went forth to meet Him, and cried Hosanna! Blessed is the King of Israel, that cometh in the name of the Lord." April 6th 32 AD. [According to the Royal Observatory, Greenwich, England.]

Exactly 173,880 days from King Artaxerxes of Persia, decree of March 14,446 BC. [From Neh.2:1-8. Based on the 360 day Hebrew year. Which makes no difference whatever from a  365.2425 day year, when all the necessary corrections are made].

360 X 483 = 173,880 days.

1. 32 years [AD] X 365 days in our year = 11,680 days.
2. 445 years [BC] X 365 days in our year = 162,425 days.
3. Total 174,105 days divided by 365 = 477 years.
4. Plus 24 days between the date of the decree in 445 BC and Jesus cut-off in 32 AD = 477 years, 24 days
5. Subtract one year because there is no year zero between 1 BC and 1 AD. = 476 years, 24 days.
6. 476 years X 365 days = 173,740 days +24 = 173,764 Days
7. Add days of the leap years over 476 years. Divided by 4 = 119 days = 173,883 days
8. Subtract 1/128 Calendar year day for every solar year: Leap year omitted every 128 years.= -3 days = 173,880 days!

Which reveals the 360 day prophetic year of Israel is the very same as our present  365.2425  day year when all the corrections have been made to the latter.

The 70th week of Daniel's prophecy, of the final 7 years, is the Tribulation, or Jacob's Trouble [Jer.30:7.] which will conclude the 490 year prophecy decreed upon his people, with a 2,000 year parenthetic in between, that covers the entire church age!

 

That there is a gap of time between verses 26 and 27 is amplified and confirmed by Jesus in Mt.24:15, in His reference to the abomination of desolation in Dan.9:27, and of His second coming in verse 30, in His response to the disciples questions as to the signs of His return and of the end of the age.

Dan.9:27. "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week; and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."



Quasar93

[Quasar93]

6 hours ago, Diaste said:

 

Your editorializing in my post is unacceptable.  The content of which is a meaningless opinionated distortion of the Scriptural facts that refute your attempt to rewrite the Scriptures to fit your belief system.  Let me see you field a Scripturally based argument of your view to prove your claims anything found in my post, fully supported by Scripture, is false, or it is your views that are.

 

Quasr92

 

Quasar93

[Justin Adams]

1 hour ago, Yowm said:

Still looking for a real source. Are you the author of the above content?

Pretty sure it is from Steve Wholberg's teaching.

Edited December 13, 2017 by Steve_S
Removed youtube link. please post videos in the appropriate video forum.

[Justin Adams]

4 minutes ago, Yowm said:

The Seventh Day Adventist Wohlburg?

Probably. But that should not preclude study. Many sources for scripture were in favor of infant baptism and Calvinists etc had some weird doctrines hidden away. Yahweh hides many a truth in plain sight. It is up to us to spot them.

Just pick the meat off the bones I was taught. Don't chew the bones.