The "instance" of salvation

[Guest daddy]

i checked out this website a few days ago call in touch ministries,charles stanley as the pastor and se what they say/said of salvation:faith is simply a way we say yes to god's free gift of eternal life.faith and salvation are not one and the same anymore than a gift and the hand that recieves it are the same.salvation or justification or adoption stands independently of faith.god does not require a constant attitude of faith in order to be saved'oonly an act of faith.they used an illistration:if he (charles stanley) chose to have a tattoo put on his arm,that would involve a one-time act on his part.yet the tattoo would remain with him indefinitely.

he doesn't have to maintain an attitude of fondness for tattoos to ensure that the tattoo remains on his arm.in fact he may change his mind the minute he recieves it.but that does not change the fact that i have a tattoo on my arm.my request for the tattoo and the tatto itself are two diffrent entirely things.i recieved it by asking and paying for it.but asking for his money back and changing his attitude will not undo what is done.

true gifts have no strings attached.once you place a condition of any kind of gift,it becomes a trade not a gift.

to say that our salvation can be taken from us for any reason,weither it be sin or disbelief,is to ignore the plain meaning of this text.to place conditions on the permanency of our salvation is to say it is not a gift.therefore,placing conditions on the permanency of salvation is the equivalent of not believing ephesians 2:8 or john 4:10 or other passages where salvation is clearly described as a gift.

what we do with thre gift is a nother matter entirely.the fact that i don't take advantage of a gift says nothing about who it belongs to.it still belongs to me.you can take a gift and bury it in the back yard,but it is still yours.once you accept the gift,your stuck with it,like it or not!

you say,"what if i give it back?"you can give it back only if the giver accepts it in return. in this case of salvation god has a strict no-return policy & his love would keep him from doing so.christ came to seek and save the lost,why would he take back what he came to give?

faith serves as our spirituall hands by which the gift is recieved at a particular moment in time.

he is more concerned about what you will let him do for you.

to say that christians can lose their salvation is to say that the blood of christ was inadequate to perfect for all time those who god has sanctified.to say that is to equate his blood with the blood of bulls and goats.

our part is simply to respond to his unconditional love with reverance and obedience, while resting in the assurance that our eternity is secure.

[Christ's Free Servant]

It seems to me that tracts, Billy Graham, and modern evangelism movement have put so much emphasis on "the decision" that they fail to emphasize the more important aspect of "disciple".  That is living like Christ.  We were never EVER, commanded to get "decisions" for Christ or "Sinners Prayers" or to simply Preach the Cross for the sake of a raised hand.  As it is written we are commanded to "Go, therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I (Christ) have commanded."

The more I consider Assurance of Salvation, and the OSAS contraversy the more I am convinced that it stems from a misunderstanding of what constitutes a POINT at which we get saved.

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I agree. I think churches teach too much easy beliefism. They teach that all a person has to do is pray a sinner's prayer and he/she has his/her ticket into heaven. But, I don't believe the scriptures teach this philosophy. I believe the problem is that we lack understanding of what it means to "believe." James says that even the demons believe and they shudder. I don't see too many people "shuddering." There is no more fear of God. Salvation has become too easy, like ordering fast food. Too many "believers" have no clue what it truly means to be a disciple of Christ.

The Bible teaches us that we are to be crucified with Christ, that we are to take up our cross daily and follow Christ, that when we were baptized into Christ we were baptized into his death, and the list goes on. I think I John has some interesting things to say about salvation:

I JN 1:5-6: "This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth."

I JN 2:3-4: "We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says,

[Khristeeanos]

Christ's Free Servant, you speak words of wisdom.

[Christ's Free Servant]

Christ's Free Servant, you speak words of wisdom.

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God bless you!

I have been in training for the past two weeks to be a volunteer with our local Crisis Pregnancy Center, which is a Christian Pro-Life organization that helps women to be educated on alternatives to abortion, assists them with referrals to adoption agencies or has parenting classes for them should they choose to keep their babies. They also provide grief counseling and healing for post-abortion women. The training has been good and biblically sound until...

Last night they had a guest teacher. She was a pastor's wife of a local Baptist church. She was presenting the plan of salvation so that we would know how to present the plan of salvation to the women at the CPC - the clients. But, the plan she shared left out acknowledgement of sin, confession and repentance. She stated that repentance was not necessary for salvation, but that all anyone had to do was "believe." Basically, she just has them pray a prayer of "faith" in Christ and assures them they now have eternal life in heaven. She said that to add repentance on to it, it would be adding works. So, I asked her then if "faith" would not be considered a "work." I challenged her that faith and repentance are inseparable, which I learned today is in the Baptist Faith & Message - their doctrinal statement. So, she is teaching against her own beliefs.

What I think is happening in the church today is that Christians are relying too heavily upon the "teachings of man" instead of searching the scriptures out for themselves. So, if someone comes along and tells them repentance is not necessary for salvation, they buy into the lie. The problem here is that our clergy are buying into the lie. So many pastors are trying to run their churches according to the gospel of Rick Warren or others like him instead of listening to God. And, what is happening is that Satan is able then to promote his lies as truth and Christians are believing the lies.

[mrs]

"What I think is happening in the church today is that Christians are relying too heavily upon the "teachings of man" instead of searching the scriptures out for themselves. So, if someone comes along and tells them repentance is not necessary for salvation, they buy into the lie. The problem here is that our clergy are buying into the lie. So many pastors are trying to run their churches according to the gospel of Rick Warren or others like him instead of listening to God. And, what is happening is that Satan is able then to promote his lies as truth and Christians are believing the lies."

I so totally agree with this! Interesting reading everyone's views on this. And convert, I agree with you.

Salvation is only by and from God. He gives it to us - we are chosen and adopted into His family. Why would God allow one of His children to lose their salvation? Our salvation did not rest upon us, and so keeping it does not either.

.....smiles.....

[Khristeeanos]

Salvation is only by and from God. He gives it to us - we are chosen and adopted into His family. Why would God allow one of His children to lose their salvation? Our salvation did not rest upon us, and so keeping it does not either.

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Tell that to Judas Iscariot, or Annanias and his wife.

[mrs]

[Khristeeanos]

Tell that to Judas Iscariot, or Annanias and his wife. 

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I don't see what Judas has to do with salvation. The fact that Annanias and his wife died for their deception does not mean that they lost their salvation.

The Bible says that Christ loved the church and gave Himself for it. Do you think He would not also keep her? We are bought with a price - there is no place where it says God returns us for the refund, and being purchased, we don't have a say about the permanence of the transaction.

....smiles...

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Keep in mind that there were two apostles named Judas. One was named Judas Iscariot, the one we are talking about.

Judas Iscariot was an apostle, yet the Bible says he will perish.

As for Annanias, do you really believe that God would kill someone and then bring him to heaven for such behavior?

The "penal" theory of which you speak with a literal payment, let me ask you a few questions please.

1. To whom was the payment made?

2. Does the payment cover all sins made by all people for all times?

[Gerioke]

From what I've read about Judas Iscariot, it seems to me he was never saved.

Part of the criteria for salvation is to have faith in Jesus. Judas always questioned what Jesus did. He even begrudged Jesus the oil that Mary used on Him. Judas was greedy, selfish and unloyal amongst other things. Not exactly christian material.

[mrs]