The Dark Side of Christianity

[frienduff thaylorde]

34 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

His Word is not permitted in many places (churches, forums, chat rooms) - as illustrated sadly with great sorrow for the members of one church in usa - (a 'regular' congregation by all measurements and appearances) --

Men of YHWH from Russia,  whose fathers are in prison camps in siberia for preaching the Gospel of Jesus,

men who got to the USA when someone paid their way as they had no money themselves to travel,

were at first welcome in the congregation, and shared God's Word by reading the Bible from the pulpit to the congregation

and the licensed ordained set in place 'pastors'/'elders'/'deacons'/ 

in that God-forsaken place kicked them out saying "That is not permitted here - it is NOT what our denomination/congregation teaches." !!!!!!    Don't be so surprised.... it happens every day in churches and on forums....

Then here is a simple question.   for men do say its not what our denomination teaches and etc.

WHO is THE ONLY JUDGE.     can man save man....................

And if men rejected the ONLY ONE who can save one , BY DENYING HIS SAYINGS ,  then Where will they appear on JUDGMENT DAY.

I pray many ponder this long , deep until it sinks in so deep it cannot be removed.   

[frienduff thaylorde]

1 hour ago, Heleadethme said:

Truth as revealed by the Holy Spirit is always simple......this is why we must become as little children to receive it.  If it takes pages and pages to open one little passage of scripture, then it's not simple anymore.  It was simple how the Lord showed me....and I'm glad because I don't do complexity very well, especially as I get older. 

And this is how many approach, due to its how they deceive.    They twist and change and have to write a book to get something said.

and always it is to justify why THEY DO as THEY DO.

an example , lets say   NOT TO SWEAR PERIOD.      they will go around all over to justify why its okay to do so .

me..............its short and quick .    IF JESUS said DO we DO , IF JESUS called something a sin.  IT IS.   

IF JESUS said do we do , if he said not to we don't.    NOW HOW CHILDLIKE and SIMPLE is that .   AND I don't have to justify why I don't do as he said or I do what he said NOT TOO.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPS.    most men don't see that .

[TickledPinkinChristWoot!]

On 1/3/2018 at 4:13 PM, Butero said:

Look again at the parable of the prodigal son and you will see that it is not a picture of unconditional eternal security.  When the prodigal was in the hog pen, he is referred to as dead and lost.  This parable shows one can be a son of the Father, and die spiritually.  It also shows they can be restored again.  Re-read it, because I have used that parable to show just the opposite of what you claim it says.  

You don't work to stay saved.  Your faith will bring about good works automatically because the born again nature will want to please God.  A person that has no good works is showing they have no real faith and are still walking in the sin nature.  

Sadly the dark side of Christianity is that which hopes to teach against eternal security in our Lord so as to make his mission to Earth and sacrifice for sins on the last sin altar, the cross, invalid of its purpose. God knows his own. There is no fear of His truth ever being vanquished by actors in the dark. 

The parable of the prodigal shows that while we may give up on God and die to our relationship with him in our own minds and actions, God shall never give up on us. Otherwise, we would know more than does the Omniscient source of all existence. We who are in Christ are told God wrote our names into the Lambs Book of Life before the world came to exist. God knew our names, those sheep who would know and respond to the voice of Christ, before we were in the womb. 

John 10 – Jesus said:
²⁷My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. ²⁸I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.
²⁹My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. ³⁰I and the Father are one.

Our will to go into the world after finding Salvation does not revoke God's free gift of grace. The older son in the Prodigal parable was angry that the younger brother could return to the family, the father, and be welcomed and loved as if he'd never left. Because the father knew his son and loved him still and always. The son did not re-enter his mother's womb in order to be reborn into the family. He simply returned to the embrace of his father and it was as if he'd never left. Celebration broke out because the son, a backslider, was never not his fathers son. 

When the sovereign power within all creation as creator makes the covenant to never leave us, He means exactly what He says. Never means never. Not even when / if we fall away. We are known by God by name before he created this world we live in. 

There are indeed those who are not actually in Christ. They assume the title of Christian but they are not reborn in the spirit. They are false. And they likely do not even know. But God does. Those were warned of also in God's word.  1 John 2:19 They went out from us but they were not of us, for if they had been of us, they would have remained; but they went out from us to disclose that they were not of us.

 

 

A born again Christian may fall away, but when they are in Christ, Jesus never leaves them.  Hebrews 13 

5."...God has said, “Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you.” 

 

John 5 – Jesus said:
²⁴I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes Him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.

1 John 5
¹¹And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.¹²He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
¹³I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

[simplejeff]

33 minutes ago, TickledPinkinChristWoot! said:

We who are in Christ are told God wrote our names into the Lambs Book of Life before the world came to exist.

Those who reject Christ and trample underfoot His Grace willfully,  have their names erased.  And cannot be restored.

[simplejeff]

8 hours ago, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

Hebrews 6:4

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened,

 

3 hours ago, Heleadethme said:

Hebrews 6:5

And have tasted the good word of God

 

3 hours ago, Heleadethme said:

Hebrews 6:6

If they shall fall away

4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen[c] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 

[TickledPinkinChristWoot!]

10 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

Those who reject Christ and trample underfoot His Grace willfully,  have their names erased.  And cannot be restored.

Scripture, scripture, scripture. For all that you profess to be true, please. 

[simplejeff]

Just now, TickledPinkinChristWoot! said:

Scripture, scripture, scripture. For all that you profess to be true, please. 

Read the posts you just past by.  (and all Scripture), praying that YHWH will grant understanding.

[ScottA]

On 12/26/2017 at 11:14 AM, DesertSW said:

Let me first start off with a disclaimer. I believe in the Word of God and in all the fundamental tenants of Christianity. I became a Christian back in 1993 when I accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. I gave up trusting in my good works and put all my faith in what Jesus had done on the cross, for my salvation.

The "dark side" I speak of is something that is not really talked about or discussed in churches. I've attended all types of protestant churches in the past 25 years (Baptist, denominational, non-denominational) and not one really discussed this aspect of Christianity. It is factually evident and not just experiential, although I have personally experienced it, it is backed by factual evidence.

This dark side is about how born-again Christians will betray you and the faith. I've personally experienced 10 of those betrayals over the course of 25 years. The latest one which was my wife, and her parents, was the most devastating. You can read about it here:

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/211844-my-marriage-divorce-testimony/

It would take quite a bit of typing to go into deep detail on these betrayals but all of them involved true Believers who ended up betraying and hurting me in such ways that left deep scars that will never go away. These betrayals involved lying, breaking promises, breaking vows/covenants, leaving the faith/church, disobeying tenants of the faith and sinning against God and breaking clear Biblical tenants, church splits and behavior that would make unbelievers blush.

Modern Christianity kind of paints a picture that once you are surrounded by other Christians, things will be OK and that they will always love and honor God. That is completely false and this dark side is not discussed because it would turn off those "seekers" or unbelievers as they would clearly see hypocrisy. If the saved Christian church is no different than the unsaved sector of society, then it offers nothing different than secular society.

If we are honest, then we should put out a disclaimer in the churches. Something like this should be in the doctrinal statement after all the major tenants of the faith are posted:

Having stated the above doctrinal positions, we want to clearly state that there are times when true believers and followers of the Christian faith will do things that will grieve and shock you, sin and dishonor God, His Word and even hurt other Christians in that process. This is part of the free will that God gives believers. Even though they are indwelt with the Holy Spirit, believers will at times hurt you and sin against you and God. These incidents will really hurt you and rock you to the core as one believes that a Christian shouldn't act that way, which they shouldn't, but can and will act that way. Pastors will sin, wives & husbands will deceive & sin, brothers and sisters in Christ will lie, dishonor, sin and hurt you.

It is important to understand this facet of the Christian faith. To enter into the Christian faith thinking that other Christians can't or will not do such things is only setting up yourself for disappointment and shock. That might, in effect, make your faith stumble. So it is best that we as a church make this disclaimer that Christians can and will do these things. It is a sad but factual truth of the human being, even when indwelt with the Holy Spirit, that they will do these things. So it is best to be prepared when those incidents occur that it is not the Christian faith that failed, but that person who failed. They failed to follow God and His Word. Christians will disappoint you, sin against you and hurt you, please be prepared that this can and most likely will occur in your lifelong journey as a Christian.

 

Well, we certainly deserve every bit of that.

However, you are obviously speaking from your grief, which is not unlike our own ugly contributions to the problem - which is the point: The problem, is that we don't actually bury the old man/women that we once were when we first become born again. So, the disclaimer should be something more like:

Beware - we have all come to a place where we have nothing but love for all, but unfortunately, we have baggage and continue to drag our old self to church with us, who can be just as offensive as we ever were before meeting Jesus. It is not we who do this, but our old self, so we apologize in advance, and are here to explain further and help you with your own similar response to entering the narrow road leading unto eternal life.

[simplejeff]

2 minutes ago, ScottA said:

is that we don't actually bury the old man/women that we once were when we first become born again.

Better bury him.   AFTER he dies.

The death ?  Crucifixion with/in Christ Jesus.

The burial ? Immersion in His Name.

Alway as He Says.

 

[TickledPinkinChristWoot!]

48 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

Read the posts you just past by.  (and all Scripture), praying that YHWH will grant understanding.

 . 

John 10:28Mounce Reverse-Interlinear New Testament (MOUNCE)

 

²⁸ andkagō I givedidōmi themautos eternalaiōnios lifezōē. ·kai They will neverou mē perishapollymi, andkai noou onetis will ever snatchharpazō themautos outek of ·ho myegō handcheir.

 

Quote

 

αἰώνιος (aiōnios)

Strong: G166

GK: G173

indeterminate as to duration, eternal, everlasting

See everywhere aiōnios appears in the New Testament via teknia.com.

 

 

 

 

No one can ever snatch us out of Jesus hand. Never means never when the sovereign power of the universe states His truth for us. 

 

Ephesians 2:8Mounce Reverse-Interlinear New Testament (MOUNCE)

 

⁸ Forgar byho gracecharis you have beeneimi savedsōzō throughdia faithpistis, andkai thishoutos is notou ofek yourselveshymeis, it is theho giftdōron of Godtheos

⁸ Forgar byho gracecharis you have beeneimi savedsōzō throughdia faithpistis, andkai thishoutos is notou ofek yourselveshymeis, it is theho gift

dōron of Godtheos;

δῶρον (dōron)

Strong: G1435

GK: G1565

a gift, present, Mt. 2:11; Eph. 2:8; Rev. 11:10; an offering, sacrifice, Mt. 5:23, 24; 8:4; δῶρον, i.e. ἐστι[ν], it is consecrated to God, Mt. 15:5; Mk. 7:11; contribution to the temple, Lk. 21:1, 4

 

Ephesians 4:30Mounce Reverse-Interlinear New Testament (MOUNCE)

³⁰ Andkai do notmē grievelypeō theho Holyhagios Spiritpneuma ·ho ofho Godtheos, inen whomhos you were sealedsphragizō foreis the dayhēmera of redemptionapolytrōsis.

• σφραγίζω (sphragizō)

  Strong: G4972

  GK: G5381

  to seal, stamp with a seal, Mt. 27:66; Rev. 20:3; to seal up, to close up, conceal, Rev. 10:4; 22:10; to set a mark upon, distinguish by a mark, Eph. 1:13; 4:30; Rev. 7:3, 4, 5, 8; to seal, to mark distinctively as invested with a certain character, Jn. 6:27; mid. to set one’s own mark upon, seal as one’s own, to impress with a mark of acceptance, 2 Cor. 1:22; to deliver over safely to someone, Rom. 15:28; absol. to set to one’s seal, to make a solemn declaration, Jn. 3:33

  See everywhere sphragizō appears in the New Testament via teknia.com.

• ἀπολύτρωσις (apolytrōsis)

Strong: G629

GK: G667

redemption, a deliverance, procured by the payment of a ransom; meton. the author of redemption, 1 Cor. 1:30; deliverance, simply, the idea of a ransom being excluded, Lk. 21:28; Heb. 11:35

 

 

 

Romans 11:29Mounce Reverse-Interlinear New Testament (MOUNCE)

²⁹ Forgar theho giftscharisma andkai theho callingklēsis ofho Godtheos are irrevocableametamelētos.

 

ἀμεταμέλητος (ametamelētos)

Strong: G278

GK: G294

not to be repented of; by impl. irrevocable, enduring, Rom. 11:29; 2 Cor. 7:10

See everywhere ametamelētos appears in the New Testament via teknia.com.

 

 

Revelation 22:19Mounce Reverse-Interlinear New Testament (MOUNCE)

¹⁹ andkai ifean anyonetis should take awayaphaireō fromapo theho wordslogos ofho the bookbiblion ofho thishoutos prophecyprophēteia, Godtheos will take awayaphaireō ·ho ·ho hisautos sharemeros fromapo theho treexylon ofho lifezōē andkai fromek theho holyhagios citypolis, ·ho whichho are describedgraphō inen ·ho thishoutos bookbiblion.

ἀφαιρέω (aphaireō)

Strong: G851

GK: G904

to take away, remove, Lk. 1:25; 10:42; to take off, cut off, remove by cutting off, Mt. 26:15; Mk. 14:47; Lk. 22:50

See everywhere aphaireō appears in the New Testament via teknia.com.

 

Those reborn in Christ , regenerated and their sins forgiven them so that God remembers them no more, shall not worship the Beast in the Book of Revelation because they have their name already written in the Lamb's Book of Life. 

 

Revelation 13:8Mounce Reverse-Interlinear New Testament (MOUNCE)

⁸ Andkai allpas thoseho livingkatoikeō onepi theho earthgē will worshipproskyneō himautos, everyone whosehos nameonoma has notou been writtengraphō ·ho inen theho Bookbiblion ofho Lifezōē of theho Lambarnion whoho was slainsphazō fromapo the foundationkatabolē of the worldkosmos.

ὄνομα (onoma)

Strong: G3686

GK: G3950

a name; the proper name of a person, etc., Mt. 1:23, 25; 10:2; 27:32; a mere name or reputation, Rev. 3:1; in NT a name as the representative of a person, Mt. 6:9; Lk. 6:22; 11:2; the name of the author of a commission, delegated authority, or religious profession, Mt. 7:22; 10:22; 12:21; 18:5, 20; 19:29; 21:9; 28:19; Acts 3:16; 4:7, 12; εἰς ὄνομα, ἐν ὀνόματι, on the score of being possessor of a certain character, Mt. 10:41, 42; Mk. 9:41

See everywhere onoma appears in the New Testament via teknia.com.

 

Revelation 3:5Mounce Reverse-Interlinear New Testament (MOUNCE)

⁵ Theho one who conquersnikaō will, in this wayhoutōs, be dressedperiballō inen whiteleukos clothinghimation, andkai I will neverou mē eraseexaleiphō ·ho hisautos nameonoma fromek theho Bookbiblos ofho Lifezōē, butkai will acknowledgehomologeō ·ho hisautos nameonoma beforeenōpion ·ho myegō Fatherpatēr andkai beforeenōpion ·ho hisautos angelsangelos.

οὐ (ou)

Strong: G3756

GK: G4024

negative adverb, originally the gen. of ὅς, spelled οὐκ if followed by a word beginning with a vowel and a smooth breathing, οὐχ if followed by a vowel and rough breathing, not, no, Mt. 5:37; 12:43; 23:37; for the peculiarities of its usage (especially as distinct from μή) consult a grammar

See everywhere ou appears in the New Testament via teknia.com.

 

ἐξαλείφω (exaleiphō)

Strong: G1813

GK: G1981

pr. to anoint or smear over; hence, to wipe off or away, Rev. 7:17; 21:4; to blot out, obliterate, Col. 2:14; Rev. 3:5; met. to wipe out guilt, Acts 3:19

See everywhere exaleiphō appears in the New Testament via teknia.com.

 

 

Do not let yourself be misled by wolves seeking to deceive God's saints on Earth brother. John 3:16 speaks of eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Eternal life is eternal salvation that saves us from the second death, the death we would have suffered had we died as sinners sinning. For God in his sovereignty knows the fate of those false teachers too. And they should beware for they do not out smart our Omniscient Father who knew us before the womb , the daughters and sons of God, who would hearken unto the call of His free gift of grace and eternal Salvation through faith in the sacrifice of his only begotten Son, Jesus Emmanuel (God with us) Christ. 

Revelation 21:27Mounce Reverse-Interlinear New Testament (MOUNCE)

²⁷ Butkai nothingpas that is uncleankoinos—·kai noou oneho who practicespoieō idolatrybdelygma orkai falsehoodpseudos—willeiserchomai ever entereiserchomai itautos, but onlyei thoseho whose names are writtengraphō inen theho Lamb’sarnion Bookbiblion ofho Lifezōē. ·ho

 

ζωή (zōē)

Strong: G2222

GK: G2437

life, living existence, Lk. 16:25; Acts 17:25; in NT spiritual life of deliverance from the proper penalty of sin, which is expressed by θάνατος, Jn. 6:51; Rom. 5:18; 6:4; the final life of the redeemed, Mt. 25:46; life, source of spiritual life, Jn. 5:39; 11:25; Col. 3:4

See everywhere zōē appears in the New Testament via teknia.com.

 

Edited January 7, 2018 by TickledPinkinChristWoot!