Is the Pope infallible..?

[vox]

Correct, yes.

[RustyAngeL]

Well this is my opinion.

[stevehut]

The doctrine of Papal Infallability is terribly misunderstood.  Not everything the Pope says, writes, or burps is considered infallable.  It is my understanding that only 2 or 3 times in history has a Pope invoked infallability and given an 'ex cathedra' decree.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is correct, although I am not familiar with the "2 or 3 times" number.

In any event, this doctrine is particularly misunderstood by catholics themselves. Because of this, they dare not question anything the pope does or says.

[stevehut]

Just look at the Middle Ages!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Middle ages? Papal infallibility did not become a church doctrine (in any official written form) until the Vatican Council. It was formulated in order to win an argument by force, over the issue of the Immaculate Conception, which (ironically) is also a very poorly understood doctrine.

[Kabowd]

No one is infallible but God.

[Fiosh]

The doctrine of papal infalibility is based on the promise of the Holy Spirit to lead the Church of Jesus Christ in truth. When Catholics believe in the doctrines of the RCC, we are trusting the promise of the Holy Spirit.

Consider this: we've had some very sinful, awful men as popes; but not one of them changed a single doctrine.

I believe the reason is that the Holy Spirit will not allow it.

Peace,

Fiosh

Oh, and once more for the record. We do not worship anything or anyone but God alone.

If any Catholic worships the Pope, or Mary, or a statue, or a picture, they are committing HERESY....period.

[jmwhalen]

"I think you all missed the point...

There is no ordination of sinful man as priests in the bible after the Levites !!! y

"Paul was a sinful man---1Cr 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

St Paul himself describes his own ministry as a priesthood:

Romans 15:

15 But on some points I have written to you very boldly by way of reminder, because of the grace given me by God

16 to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in the priestly service of the gospel of God, so that the offering of the Gentiles may be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.

17 In Christ Jesus, then, I have reason to boast of my work for God.

If St Paul considers himself to be a priest, anyone who DENIES that "Christian" ministry is a priestly ministry has rebuked and disowned St. Paul! "

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My comment:

Romans 15:16-"That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost."

1. The only "priesthood" on earth that was(past tense)recognized by the LORD God was the Levitcal priesthood after the order of Aaron. The Mosaic law requires ministers of the Aaronic order to be descendants of Levi, and the high priest to descend from Aaron. You had to be born into the tribe of Levi to become a priest, and you had to be a male. If you do not meet both of these requirements, you are disqualified. Another result of failure to rightly divide(2 Timothy 2:15)-the priesthood. Nowhere in Paul's epistles, Romans-Philemon, which are the doctrine for the body of Christ in this "...dispensation of the grace of God...."(Eph. 3:2), are members of the body referred to as "priests", "kings", or "a holy nation"-this has application only to Israel. The body of Christ is not a mediatorial body in this dispensation.

2. The only mediator recognized in this dispensation is the Lord Jesus Christ: "There is one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus"-1 Tim. 2:5). Furthermore, his priesthood is in heaven("For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest..."-Hebrews 8:4) not earth,after the order of Melchizedek, which necessarily set aside the Levitical order. The Levitical priests were ordained of God under the Law. Their work was merely symbolic and typical of the true priestly work of the Lord Jesus Christ, our great high priest.

3. The only priesthood that will be recognized in the future on earth, during the millennial kingdom, will be from the nation of Israel-this has no reference to the Body Of Christ in this dispensation:

" And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel." Exodus 19:6

"Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ." 1 Peter 2:5

""But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light...." 1 Peter 2:9

"But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves." Isaiah 61:6

"But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light; "And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen." Revelation 1:6

"And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth." Rev. 5:10

"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years." Rev. 20:6

And point 3, by the way, explains "what was happening" when John the Baptist was baptizing:

John's baptism was not something new-rather it was a ceremony thoroughly understood by those to whom he ministered.

Water baptism did not begin with John the Baptist. When we turn to the Scriptures to trace its development we quickly learn that water baptism is a ceremonial cleansing that pertains to the kingdom promised to the nation Israel.

In Exodus 19:5,6-at the very giving of the Mosaic Covenant-God's purpose in giving birth to the nation Israel is clearly revealed.

God's stated purpose concerning the nation Israel is that she is to be "a kingdom of priests and an holy nation," through whom the Gentile nations will draw nigh to God. This is what Isaiah refers to when he writes:

"But YE SHALL BE NAMED THE PRIESTS OF THE LORD: MEN SHALL CALL YOU THE MINISTERS OF OUR GOD" (Isaiah 61:6).

Ultimately this will, of course, be accomplished during the kingdom reign of Christ when Israel is dwelling in her land and the nations find salvation and blessing through her instrumentality. This explains Zech. 8:23-Israel will be a nation of priests, the channel for blessings to the world:

"Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you."

All of this awaits Israel's redemption. The "If ye will obey...then ye shall be" principle of the law assured that the "knowledge of sin" would abound. Because of her failure, the nation Israel soon found herself in need of a Redeemer. Thus while the hope of Israel looked to the promised coming kingdom, the need of the nation for cleansing must first be faced.

With this in mind it is important to remember that of all the people or things to be baptized, it was the priest who stood foremost. Exodus 29 sets forth the procedure for induction into the priest's office. Two very important steps of consecration are included:

First must come cleansing-a washing with water:

"And Aaron and his sons thou shalt bring unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and SHALT WASH THEM WITH WATER" (Exodus 29:4).

Second there was the anointing with oil:

"Then shalt thou TAKE THE ANOINTING OIL, AND POUR IT UPON HIS HEAD, AND ANOINT HIM" (Exodus 29:7).

Just as the sons of Aaron were the priests through whom the people of Israel could approach God, so the nation Israel itself will one day be "a kingdom of priests and an holy nation," through whom the Gentiles will draw near to God (Genesis 12:1-3; 22:17,18, Isaiah 60:1-3, Zechariah 8:20-23). It is in this light that John the Baptist appears on the scene preaching his "...baptism of repentance to all the People of Israel" (Acts 13:24).

In other words, John's "baptism Of repentance for the remission of sins" (Mark 1:4) was a means of national repentance and preparation to be the kingdom of priests God ordained that favored nation to be. Matthew 3:1,2 is important here:

"In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,

"And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

And how were they to thus prepare for the coming kingdom?

"Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,

"And WERE BAPTIZED OF HIM IN JORDAN, CONFESSING THEIR SINS" (vs. 5,6).

And:

And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins" Mk. 1:5.

"

[stevehut]

1- Consider this:  we've had some very sinful, awful men as popes; but not one of them changed a single doctrine.

2- We do not worship anything or anyone but God alone. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1- Oh, you've got to be kidding. Catholic doctrine has been extremely fluid throught he ages.

2- Well, I can't speak for your personal devotion, but...

Have you read your catechism lately? Or the writings of the saints and the popes? You might be surprised...

[stevehut]

Whalen-

Well put. Since Jesus died for our sins, there is no need for regular ongoing sacrifices. And since there is no need to sacrifice animals, then there is no longer a need for a priest.

[Fiosh]

1- Consider this: