Is the Pope infallible..?

[vox]

Whalen-

Well put.    Since Jesus died for our sins, there is no need for regular ongoing sacrifices.  And since there is no need to sacrifice animals, then there is no longer a need for a priest.

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Dear Steve,

If by ongoing sacrifice you mean the Catholic Mass which is also called the celebration of the most holy Eucharist then you have missed the point all together. Please allow me to explain. Catholic just like any other Protestants, we love Jesus, and because we love Him we also follow ALL His command, which can be found in the holy scriptures ie. with the Mass including having ordained priests.

This is what Bob Stanley a Catholic apologist had to say:

"For from the rising of the sun even to the going down,

my name is glorified among the Gentiles,

and in every place there is sacrifice,

and there is offered to my name a clean oblation,

for my name is great among the Gentiles,

said the Lord of Hosts."

Malachi 1:11

This is a clear prophecy of the Mass that we celebrate today.

In every place there is sacrifice, as the Catholic Church is truly

worldwide. Every minute of every day, somewhere in the world,

a 'Clean Oblation' is offered to the Lord of Hosts.

This 'Clean Oblation' is the Holy Eucharist,

the true Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

This prophecy is fulfilled by the Catholic Church.

The Mass is the highest form of prayer that can be offered up to GOD.

It is the source, the center, and the summit of the Catholic Church.

Sacrifice, the supreme act of worship see: Heb 9:11-14,10:1-10..............

The Sacrifice of the Mass:

Why do some believe that Christ is sacrificed again and again in each and every Mass, when Scripture plainly states that He was sacrificed on Calvary once and for all? Heb 10:10

Many do not realize it, but Christ Himself offered the first Mass at the Last Supper when He offered (sacrificed) Himself to His Father in an unbloody manner, that is, under the form of bread and wine, in anticipation of His bloody sacrifice on the cross to be offered on the following day.

In the Mass, Christ continues to make that offering of Himself to His Father, by the hands of the priest.

"And while they were at supper, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke: and gave to his disciples, and said: "Take and eat. This is my body." And taking the chalice, he gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying: "All of you drink of this. For this is my blood of the new covenant, which shall be shed for many unto remission of sins", Mt 26:26-28.

Christ ordered His Church to perpetuate that sacrificial rite for the continued sanctification of His followers, saying, "Do this in remembrance of me," Luke 22:19.

The Catholic Church complies with His order in the Mass. The Mass is a re-enactment of Our Lord's one sacrifice of Calvary. It is that same sacrifice, not another, Heb 10:12.

We, are in time, and to us it would seem that this one sacrifice was consummated 2000 years ago. GOD, however is outside of time and space.

Everything is now in GOD's eyes, and so we are taken back to that one sacrifice as if it were happening now at each and every Mass.

The Catholic Church teaches that the sacrifice on the Cross was a complete and perfect sacrifice of the Lamb of GOD, offered once.

St. Paul bears witness that the sacrificial rite which Christ instituted at the Last Supper is to be perpetuated, and that it is not only important for man's sanctification, but is the principal factor in man's final redemption.

In 1Cor 11:23-26, St. Paul told how, at the Last Supper, Our Lord said:"For as often as you shall eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until He comes."

During the Breaking of the Bread, we say twice, "Lamb of GOD, you take away the sins of the world, have mercy on us," and a third time, "Lamb of GOD, you take away the sins of the world, grant us peace."

Thus at every Mass the faithful have a new opportunity to worship God with this one perfect sacrifice and to absorb more of Christ's saving and sanctifying grace of Calvary. This grace is infinite, and the faithful should continuously grow in it.

The Mass is offered again and again, because of our imperfect capacity to receive.

Finally, the holy sacrifice of the Mass fulfills the Old Testament prophecy:

'For from the rising of the sun even to the going down, my name is great among the Gentiles, and in every place there is sacrifice, and there is offered to my name a clean oblation: for my name is great among the Gentiles, saith the Lord of hosts'. (Mal 1:11). The Sacrifice of the Mass is offered every day throughout the world, and in every Mass the only truly clean oblation is offered, that is, Christ Himself; thus the Mass is the perfect fulfillment of this prophecy.

And This is what Karl Keating another Catholic apologist had to say:

The Eucharist is a true sacrifice, not just a commemorative meal, as "Bible Christians" insist. The first Christians knew that it was a sacrifice and proclaimed this in their writings. They recognized the sacrificial character of Jesus

[jmwhalen]

Whalen-

Well put.    Since Jesus died for our sins, there is no need for regular ongoing sacrifices.  And since there is no need to sacrifice animals, then there is no longer a need for a priest.

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------

Thank you Stevehut. I am more like Moses-"...I am slow of speech, and of a slow tongue...."(Exodus 4:10). So much for Charlton Heston as Moses!

In Christ,

John M. Whalen

PS: Did you know that Moses was 80 years old when He began his "official ministry"?

[Fiosh]

PS: Did you know that Moses was 80 years old when He began his "official ministry"?

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So there's still hope for us???

[stevehut]

Once again, vox...

The job of a priest (in the Bible) was to instruct the people in how to make their animal sacrifices, and in some cases help them do it.

Today, because Jesus died for our sins, there is no need for us to make such sacrifices. No sacrifices, then no need for a priest.

[stevehut]

Can you point out a doctrine that has been changed?

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I believe that the church issued a new catechism about 10 years ago. Compare it to the previous one.

Then read up on your church councils. Formulating new doctrines has been one of the purposes of the councils for centuries.

[Guest joalmon]

If the Pope is/was infallible, what need was there for Christ to be sacrificed on our account? We all come into this world "bent" because we are the sons of Adam. Christ is and was the only remedy for this.

[Kabowd]

I wonder if Bob Stanley even realizes he's in this debate. Discussions are never fun when people only regurgitate canned responses written by other people. C'mon people, posting articles and sections of books does not constitute a discussion. If you're capable of forming your own words and thoughts, please do so. Referencing an author occasionally is one thing...even posting a link or two occasionally is one thing...but repeatedly quoting one specific source shows a real lack of study, it's weak and personally I don't respect anyone who does it repeatedly.

Please, either stand on your own two feet and discuss an issue or get out of the discussion.

Again, I'm not saying it's wrong to quote someone here and there or reference outside sources (I do this with various sources occasionlly myself). But there are some in here who teeter on the edge of plagerism and/or copywrite laws by posting so much work done by other people.

Ciao.

[Fiosh]

Can you point out a doctrine that has been changed?

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I believe that the church issued a new catechism about 10 years ago. Compare it to the previous one.

Then read up on your church councils. Formulating new doctrines has been one of the purposes of the councils for centuries.

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Easy to say, but evasive.

I'm still waiting for you to cite one doctrine that's been CHANGED.

I've been a Catholic for 47 years. I've read the Catechism, granted not every letter, but I've used both of them for reference hundreds of times. The new version is simply expanded in info and has a much better index.

I could, on the other hand, point out several doctrines held fast by the Early Church that were changed by "non-Catholics" in the past 500 years or so.[/b

Peace,

Fiosh

[stevehut]

I'm still waiting for you to cite one doctrine that's been CHANGED.

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Okey-dokey.

The First Vatican Council. What was the main issue?

[Fiosh]

I'm still waiting for you to cite one doctrine that's been CHANGED.

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Okey-dokey.

The First Vatican Council. What was the main issue?

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At the risk of being redundant...

I'm still waiting for you to cite one doctrine that's been CHANGED.