Is the Pope infallible..?

[stevehut]

At the risk of being redundant...

I'm still waiting for you to cite one doctrine that's been CHANGED.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Answer this q and that will be the answer to your q

[Fiosh]

At the risk of being redundant...

I'm still waiting for you to cite one doctrine that's been CHANGED.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Answer this q and that will be the answer to your q

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know what you're getting at. I have the Vat. II docs---it's a thick book.

If you have a point to make please make it. I have precious little time to spend on the Boards.

If you can't give me facts, then I guess there is no need to discuss.

Peace,

Fiosh

[stevehut]

Not V2, Fiosh. V1.

I find this fascinating, for a person who is working so hard to defend this religion. I would expect you to know this, after 47 years. They taught me this stuff in Catechism class, back in the 1960's.

[Fiosh]

Not V2, Fiosh.  V1. 

I find this fascinating, for a person who is working so hard to defend this religion.  I would expect you to know this, after 47 years.    They taught me this stuff in Catechism class, back in the 1960's.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

An oversight. Give me a break. I just ate lunch at 3:30 PM. It's been a long day.

Anyway, I'm still waiting for you to make your point.

[stevehut]

Very well, Fiosh.

The Pope declared the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception, attempting to make it into "official" church dogma for the first time.

Many bishops protested, claiming he didn't have such authority.

So the council was called to settle the issue of whether the pope has (or should have) such authority.

By the time the council was over, two doctrines were firmly defined for the first time:

Immaculate conception

Papal infallibility

Not just changed. Added to the canon for the first time.

Until recently, Catholics all over the world were begging JP2 to "promote" Mary to a status equal to Jesus. No one in the church questions his authority to do so. The only thing that interrupted the momentum of that movement, was that JP2 died.

This, indeed, is the purpose of councils, bulls, encyclicals, etc.

[Kabowd]

I'm still waiting for you to cite one doctrine that's been CHANGED.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Okey-dokey.

The First Vatican Council. What was the main issue?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

At the risk of being redundant...

I'm still waiting for you to cite one doctrine that's been CHANGED.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll give you one: The Assumption of Mary. It used to be considered heresy, in fact, Pope Gelasius (495 A.D) and Pope Hormisdas (514 A.D) rejected this teaching and declared anyone who taught it heretics. It wasn't until 1950 that Pope Pius XII declared it as official Roman Catholic Doctrine.

So before 11/1/50 any Catholic who believed the Assumption of Mary was considered a heretic by the RCC, but after 11/1/50 any Catholic who doesn't believe it is considered a heretic by the RCC. Hmmm....

[Fiosh]

Very well, Fiosh.

The Pope declared the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception, attempting to make it into "official" church dogma for the first time.

Many bishops protested, claiming he didn't have such authority.

So the council was called to settle the issue of whether the pope has (or should have) such authority.

By the time the council was over, two doctrines were firmly defined for the first time:

Immaculate conception

Papal infallibility

Not just changed.  Added to the canon.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, is that all.

No, not changed; only spelled out clearly for the first time.

Now that I know the issue, I'll get the details and get back to you.

Unless vox beats me to it.

Peace,

Fiosh

PS. You were right, I should have known. This is a common misconception among non-Catholics which has been thoroughly explained time and time again.

My brain MUST be fuzzy today!

[stevehut]

No, not changed; only spelled out clearly for the first time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nope. You missed it. The rebellion over the pope's actions was severe and widespread. Could it be that so many bishops misunderstood what the pope's authority was? Nope, this tells me that he didn't always have this authority.

[Fiosh]

No, not changed; only spelled out clearly for the first time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nope. You missed it. The rebellion over the pope's actions was severe and widespread. Could it be that so many bishops misunderstood what the pope's authority was? Nope, this tells me that he didn't always have this authority.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, you are right, I did miss it, I wasn't actually there.

Gotta go , more later.

Your sister in Christ,

Fiosh

[vox]

I wonder if Bob Stanley even realizes he's in this debate. Discussions are never fun when people only regurgitate canned responses written by other people. C'mon people, posting articles and sections of books does not constitute a discussion. If you're capable of forming your own words and thoughts, please do so. Referencing an author occasionally is one thing...even posting a link or two occasionally is one thing...but repeatedly quoting one specific source shows a real lack of study, it's weak and personally I don't respect anyone who does it repeatedly.

Please, either stand on your own two feet and discuss an issue or get out of the discussion.

Again, I'm not saying it's wrong to quote someone here and there or reference outside sources (I do this with various sources occasionlly myself). But there are some in here who teeter on the edge of plagerism and/or copywrite laws by posting so much work done by other people.

Ciao.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tess,

Quoting someone who in my opinion is much more articulate than I am is a far better way to explain the topic at hand and I will continue to do so, it's quick and safe time. It is not plagiarism or infringement of any copy right laws if the source or author is acknowledged which I did. We form our thought based in this case on what we read and experience, surely you are no different. I regret that it doesn't sit well with you, however your concern is appreciated.

Unfortunately I didn't get any pay cheque (referring to your other respond) from Bob.