Does works save you ?

[Guest Butero]

4 hours ago, Yowm said:

That would be a big assumption when you say 'What about those people who get saved'. The OSAS doctrine pertains to the individual who knows whether they have been born again or not...not to 'the other guy', who will always be a hypothetical.

These people do "know" they are saved at the time.  I know two former Pastors that had this happened in their lives.  They certainly "knew" they were saved, and could point to the day they got saved, but later in life, completely turned their backs on God.  I was a member of one of these men's church for several years and nobody was questioning his salvation at that time.  It came as a total shock to me to hear about how he abandoned the ministry and his family and went back in to the world, but those kind of things do happen.  If OSAS is true, the man is and always has been saved no matter what, which contradicts James, but if we go by the view that his departure from the faith shows he was never really saved, that means we are basing salvation on works, and there is no assurance of salvation.  

[Guest Butero]

4 hours ago, Yowm said:

Perhaps this is the root of the misunderstanding. You don’t know many people here because instead of trying to learn a bit of where each person is coming from, you take a Scripture-machine-gun and mow people down without really knowing them.

How can you administer medicine if you don’t know your patients?

I can tell you that I know people personally, and in one case, I knew one man very good because he was my Pastor for several years, that knew they were saved and completely turned their backs on God.  It really does happen.  

[Guest shiloh357]

6 hours ago, Butero said:

I have seen a lot of people on your side that clearly don't have any understanding of the Word.  They posted a lot of false doctrine about James.  We do not simply do good works so the world will see our actions and recognize we are children of God.  That is blatantly false, and there is nothing in scripture that backs that up.  To make such a claim, and then come back with a comment that anyone that believes good works are necessary is false shows us nothing.  It is personal opinion.  It is just the way this person chooses to interpret James to defend their false OSAS doctrine, but they aren't showing any actual knowledge of the Bible.  

Anyone who teaches that good works are necessary for salvation are NOT Christians, but false teachers and tares among the wheat.   They trust in themselves and not  in Christ. 

[Guest Butero]

23 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Anyone who teaches that good works are necessary for salvation are NOT Christians, but false teachers and tares among the wheat.   They trust in themselves and not  in Christ. 

Anyone that teaches contrary to the whole council of the Word of God, including the Book of James is a false teacher, a wolf in sheep's clothing, and a child of the devil.  They are not saved, and are doing their best to lead others into the pit with them.  

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.  Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works:  shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.  Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well:  the devils also believe, and tremble.  But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?  James 2:17-20

[Blood Bought 1953]

15 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Anyone who teaches that good works are necessary for salvation are NOT Christians, but false teachers and tares among the wheat.   They trust in themselves and not  in Christ. 

 

Their works will impress God the same way Cain’s did.Centuries pass, but human pride remains the same.

I have been watching Old Zola Levitt videos, specifically “Go tell it on the Mountain” series available at the web site.    Simply amazing.  Would love for Butero to go check Zola out and let me know what he thinks.

  please google——-  Zola Levitt  go tell it on the mountain———-the section from Golgotha grace is the best

[Guest shiloh357]

5 minutes ago, Butero said:

Anyone that teaches contrary to the whole council of the Word of God, including the Book of James is a false teacher, a wolf in sheep's clothing, and a child of the devil.  They are not saved, and are doing their best to lead others into the pit with them.  

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.  Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works:  shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.  Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well:  the devils also believe, and tremble.  But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?  James 2:17-20

James is not talking about salvation.   He is talking about works demonstrating faith.    Sorry, but those who teaching trusting in works are not Christians.

[Guest shiloh357]

Just now, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

Their works will impress God the same way Cain’s did.Centuries pass, but human pride remains the same.

I have been watching Old Zola Levitt videos, specifically “Go tell it on the Mountain” series available at the web site.    Simply amazing.  Would love for Butero to go check Zola out and let me know what he thinks.

  please google——-  Zola Levitt  go tell it on the mountain———-the section from Golgotha grace is the best

Amen!

Those who trust in works, fail to realize that their best deeds on their best day is nothing but filthy rags.  

[Guest Butero]

Something I want to point out to those reading through this thread is that perseverance of the saints is works based.  The people teaching this false doctrine are trying to have their cake and eat it too.  They say that a born again Christian cannot lose their salvation based on anything they do, but a true born again Christian will have a change in their lifestyle.  If there is no change in their lifestyle, they can always claim that person was never really saved, which means they are judging the person based on works.  

With the OSAS doctrine, a person who gets saved truly cannot lose salvation, no matter what they do.  They could become a bank robber, serial killer, child rapist, anything, and remain saved.  That really is eternal security, but that contradicts the book of James and the many scriptures that point to such behavior as things that will keep people from inheriting the Kingdom of Heaven.  Neither doctrine works.  They are doctrines of demons.  

[Guest shiloh357]

1 minute ago, Butero said:

Something I want to point out to those reading through this thread is that perseverance of the saints is works based.  The people teaching this false doctrine are trying to have their cake and eat it too.  They say that a born again Christian cannot lose their salvation based on anything they do, but a true born again Christian will have a change in their lifestyle.  If there is no change in their lifestyle, they can always claim that person was never really saved, which means they are judging the person based on works.  

With the OSAS doctrine, a person who gets saved truly cannot lose salvation, no matter what they do.  They could become a bank robber, serial killer, child rapist, anything, and remain saved.  That really is eternal security, but that contradicts the book of James and the many scriptures that point to such behavior as things that will keep people from inheriting the Kingdom of Heaven.  Neither doctrine works.  They are doctrines of demons.  

That claptrap is a pile of lies.  Eternal Security is predicated on the genuineness of salvation and only applies to those who have been truly saved and have transformed heart.  Salvation is a transformation, not merely being moved from one side of the of ledger to the other.

If a person was never changed, they were never saved and Eternal Security has nothing to do with them.

Works are fruit.  If there is no fruit, there was no salvation.   

A person can trust in works, or they can trust in Christ, one or the other.   Depending on works at any level is a denial of the sufficiency of Christ.

[Guest Butero]

3 minutes ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

Their works will impress God the same way Cain’s did.Centuries pass, but human pride remains the same.

I have been watching Old Zola Levitt videos, specifically “Go tell it on the Mountain” series available at the web site.    Simply amazing.  Would love for Butero to go check Zola out and let me know what he thinks.

  please google——-  Zola Levitt  go tell it on the mountain———-the section from Golgotha grace is the best

I will tell you what.  If I get time, I will check that video out.  This has zero to do with human pride, and everything to do with believing scripture.  Cain tried to offer up the wrong kind of sacrifice.  It required a blood sacrifice to cover sins, and Cain didn't offer a blood sacrifice so it was rejected.  This pride argument is false.  Where is pride in obeying God?  Nothing we can do on our own without the blood of Christ and without grace would save us.  

So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants:  we have done that which was our duty to do.  Luke 17:10