frienduff thaylorde Posted April 1, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 17 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 13,257 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 62 Joined: 07/07/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/25/1972 Share Posted April 1, 2018 16 minutes ago, Butero said: I had a chance to watch Zola Levitt discuss his view of law and grace, and to me he has it wrong. Whether you lived in Old Testament times or today, salvation is through faith. In addition to that, even in Old Testament times, you couldn't be saved if not for the grace of God. That is what is being taught in Hebrews and James. All who have ever been saved were saved by grace. In Old Testament times, the evidence of our faith was to keep the law. Today, the evidence of our faith is that we bear good fruit as we walk in the Spirit and have good works. In both cases, those with any amount of understanding knew they had nothing to boast of because no one under either covenant deserved to go to heaven based on their merit. Where people today are messing up is when they claim abstaining from sin is working your way to heaven. We believe therefore we obey God. To not obey God equals unbelief. Where people today are messing up is when they claim abstaining from sin is working your way to heaven. We believe therefore we obey God. To not obey God equals unbelief. This right here summed it up . and like you butero I say We believe therefore we obey . those who think they working their way to heaven by abstaining from sin , AS YOU SAID CLEARLY , they are lost . But those who don't Obey HIM , don't love Him , don't know Him . FOR IT IS HIS SPIRIT in us working IN US those things which are pleasing in HIS SIGHT . And its our duty to OBEY the SPIRIT . the thing is I see Where JESUS made mention of Having to continue IN HIM I see it in the letters of the apostels how people can fall away . and then I see men who just keep trying to explain this all away. I notice something else , those who hold to certain doctrines which men have altered , they typically do not see the need to be grave or warn I mean if the overall mindset IS people cant fall away , then in time the attitude of go and sin no more becomes God loves us he understands our heart type attitude. then as this minset continues less and less focus on Sound doctrine , leaven keeps rising cause its not seen as so serious and not called out and now look at today , we have this doctrine that focuses heavy on unity , NOT on Christ and in time this will even lead to unity with good works with other religions and all just doing good deeds with all religions , JESUS no longer reocognized at all as the head . One big blended pot of confusion . I See where this is all headed and to whom its headed too. Its a very dark path leading to a very dark king and kings . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted April 1, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,974 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,790 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted April 1, 2018 2 hours ago, Butero said: I had a chance to watch Zola Levitt discuss his view of law and grace, and to me he has it wrong. Whether you lived in Old Testament times or today, salvation is through faith. In addition to that, even in Old Testament times, you couldn't be saved if not for the grace of God. That is what is being taught in Hebrews and James. All who have ever been saved were saved by grace. In Old Testament times, the evidence of our faith was to keep the law. Today, the evidence of our faith is that we bear good fruit as we walk in the Spirit and have good works. In both cases, those with any amount of understanding knew they had nothing to boast of because no one under either covenant deserved to go to heaven based on their merit. Where people today are messing up is when they claim abstaining from sin is working your way to heaven. We believe therefore we obey God. To not obey God equals unbelief. What do you believe? Many of the things this brother said, are not from the Gospel, (if you notice I did not say from the bible, I made it simple to discern, I said from the Gospel. In the Law of Moses anyone who is eligable and does not do what the Law say is disqualified, for partaking in the righteousness of the Law, faith was not required. "Faith and Grace came through Jesus CHRIST". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 13 minutes ago, Yowm said: I didn't say 'saved', I said born again. Sure many people think they are saved for various reasons but when one is born again one has become a new creation and is now God's property and in God's trust. I have no problem with that, but knowing that happens means there is no absolute assurance of salvation, because one can believe they are born again and be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 14 minutes ago, Yowm said: Thx, but I'll go with Scriptural promises, not personal anecdotes. But you are not. I will go with truth over the misinterpretations of the OSAS crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 15 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said: What do you believe? Many of the things this brother said, are not from the Gospel, (if you notice I did not say from the bible, I made it simple to discern, I said from the Gospel. In the Law of Moses anyone who is eligable and does not do what the Law say is disqualified, for partaking in the righteousness of the Law, faith was not required. "Faith and Grace came through Jesus CHRIST". This person's post makes no sense. Hebrews refers to Abraham being saved by faith. Rahab was saved by faith. Once the law was give, people obeyed by faith. God extended grace to King David and even King Mannasei when he repented. Noah found grace. People were saved by faith and had grace given to them before Jesus came. What in the world are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrior12 Posted April 1, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,466 Content Per Day: 0.88 Reputation: 1,540 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/05/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 1, 2018 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Butero said: I have no problem with that, but knowing that happens means there is no absolute assurance of salvation, because one can believe they are born again and be wrong. Surely, a man can examine his life as to the attributes of a born again believer. There must be a litmus test, or there are millions of believers walking in pseudo assurance of eternal life. Romans 6 give the outline for a man check his status and he cannot lie to his own heart and spirit. Romans 6 King James Version (KJV) 17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. 20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. Romans 8:16 King James Version (KJV) 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: Edited April 1, 2018 by warrior12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 Just now, Yowm said: No, those who God regenerates, God never loses. Except a person can believe they are saved and secure and not really be regenerated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 1 minute ago, Yowm said: I'm not what? Are you trying to say that I personally don't stand on the promises of Scripture? I am saying you can stand on promises and not understand them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 1 minute ago, Yowm said: Again, the hypothetical 'other person'. It happens all the time, and I would bet most know someone in that condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frienduff thaylorde Posted April 1, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 17 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 13,257 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 62 Joined: 07/07/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/25/1972 Share Posted April 1, 2018 RAISE THOSE HANDS AND PRAISE THE LORD PEOPLES . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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