Still Alive Posted May 2, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.33 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted May 2, 2018 7 minutes ago, Gideon said: Our standard is simply non-existant. Say a prayer. Get Heaven. We have made free synonymous with cheap. May God awaken us to our state. The world sees our shallow hypocrisy. We do not. Yet. Blessings, Gideon On this we agree. But I seriously apply Romans 9. I'm not trying to "get to heaven" and I'm not relying on my faith. Either God called me or I'm wasting my time. It is not by my will, but by His. I have no more free will than Pharaoh. "Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden." Nothing I could do could change that. I can't sin my way out of this, or he never would have chosen me in the first place. The cool thing is that I can apply the hypothetical conversation with a Universalist: "If you are a universalist, what is to stop you from beating me up and stealing my money?" "Nothing, but being a universalist, it would never cross my mind to do that." The same thought process applies to me insomuch as I follow what Paul said, "All things are permissible, but not all things are profitable." So yes, I can enjoy my flesh, as long as it does not consume me vs the spirit. I can enjoy a beer, a cigar, a donut, sex with my wife, and all without guilt. None of them are "missing the mark". It is not what you do that causes problems. Rather, it is why you do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Alive Posted May 2, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.33 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted May 2, 2018 6 minutes ago, Gideon said: Brother, at almost 69, my Spirit is speeding up, praise God, but my brain is slowing down, lol. Can you make it a bit clearer for me? Right now, I am clueless as to how to respond. me Hey, I'm 64. You had taken some scripture out of context and I was just coming back in like kind. The most apparently damning of the ones you quoted was the one from Hebrews. But when one looks at the context and the audience of Hebrews, It is no longer the legalistic mantra it appears to be. I have to confess that if I honestly believed that I could "cross a sin line" that caused me to lose my salvation, that coupled with my belief in CI would cause me to lose all hope, because I know I am incapable of doing that. But I don't believe that is what Jesus nor his apostles taught, I'm good. BTW, the reason I have that picture of me on the tractor as my avatar is because it speaks to what my neighbors call me: Mr. Douglas, and all that that implies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon Posted May 2, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 79 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,177 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 826 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/04/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, Still Alive said: On this we agree. But I seriously apply Romans 9. I'm not trying to "get to heaven" and I'm not relying on my faith. Either God called me or I'm wasting my time. It is not by my will, but by His. I have no more free will than Pharaoh. "Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden." Nothing I could do could change that. I can't sin my way out of this, or he never would have chosen me in the first place. The cool thing is that I can apply the hypothetical conversation with a Universalist: "If you are a universalist, what is to stop you from beating me up and stealing my money?" "Nothing, but being a universalist, it would never cross my mind to do that." The same thought process applies to me insomuch as I follow what Paul said, "All things are permissible, but not all things are profitable." So yes, I can enjoy my flesh, as long as it does not consume me vs the spirit. I can enjoy a beer, a cigar, a donut, sex with my wife, and all without guilt. None of them are "missing the mark". It is not what you do that causes problems. Rather, it is why you do it. Oh, we have free will alright. And it is given to us to make one choice in our valley of decision. Either we choose to remain in control of our lives or we choose to yield up our free will as the last and most precious pearl we can offer the Lord . If what you are saying were true, God wasted a ton of ink and a lot of blood penning the New Testament for us. This is simply an excuse to lay back and do nothing, which is so far from the heart of Paul that it is not even funny. It is like saying “Well, when the Lord wants me to go witness to my neighbor, a mysterious force will lift me out of my barkolounger, float me next door and make my mouth move. Until then, what’s on tv, honey? “ When we finally see that the exhortation to run our race as if there is but one prize was meant to get us down on our knees so we could finally see HOW to do this, we will be rewarded with an amazing revelation. But as long as we use different excuses to justify why we do not want to be fully sanctified, we will simply run another lap around Sinai. Blessings, Gids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Alive Posted May 2, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.33 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted May 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, Gideon said: This is simply an excuse to lay back and do nothing, which is so far from the heart of Paul that it is not even funny. It is like saying “Well, when the Lord wants me to go witness to my neighbor, a mysterious force will lift me out of my barkolounger, float me next door and make my mouth move. Until then, what’s on tv, honey? I respectfully submit that if you HAVE been chosen, you will not take that mindset. I think the ink needed to be spent to teach us what, now that we are saved, we should be doing. One of the problems I've always had with the free will concept is that God has the power to convince any and every single person he chooses to follow Jesus and His teaching. In fact, the only reason all would not be followers of Christ is that if some were hardened (like Pharaoh) by God, or God simply chose to "hate" them: Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” There is no room for free will. He compels us, and who can fight God? If you are saved, it is because He chose you. If you are not, but think you are, you are like Simon the magician, and nothing you can do will change your situation. I believe I am his, and use His word to respond accordingly. And I am beyond thankful for his love for me, personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Gideon said: What most do not see, and cannot until their minds are renewed after putting off the old man and putting on the new, is that this is NOT works based salvation. It is FAITH and faith alone. Yeah, that subtle insult isn't going to fly. To pretend that you are sooooo spiritual and any who dare disagree with you have not put on the new man is really just a tip off that you are arrogant and prideful. The fact is that I am just as saved as you are, despite what you think. And since you were talking about "risking eternity" and cherry-picking verses out of context about willfully sinning, and departing iniquity it is precisely a works-based salvation. Anyone who teaches that salvation can be lost is operating from a works-based system of salvation. Quote Who is? Anyone who is not pursuing holiness without which no man shall see the Lord. Or someone who isn't as spiritual as you presume yourself to be, right? Actually that is not what it means to twisting the mercy of God into lasciviousness. You don't even know what that means. And you are not qualified to lecture the rest of us. You jump on this board thinking you're going to tell us how to get off and judge the majority of us as twisting the mercy of God into a license to sin, and assume that most of us (whom you don't know) are not pursuing holiness. You need to lose your pride and arrogance. Quote Can you honestly tell me that most Christians are actively trying to live holy lives, or at least figure out what the fly in the ointment is that is making it such an impossible place to walk in? To not do so is, in effect, doing just that. Who are you to say just who is or isn't trying to live holy lives? You are again, very arrogant and presumptuous to think you can sit in judgement on other believers. Since you think that is what most believers do, you must believe that about most of us, right? Quote It is declaring “Well, I am saved, and that is the important part. Simce holiness is optional, I am not going to pursue it, or even desire it, because I cannot make myself holy. God is going to do it over time. Oh, I may sin a little, but at least they are not bad sins, and grace covers them, right? “ That brother, is the classic definition of turning the grace of God into lasciviousness. And that is how you view the majority of us, based on your comments. And you would be wrong. Quote The blood of Jesus, shed to FREE US from the power of darkness, is instead limited by our unbelief and lack of desire, to simply forgive us again.... and again... and again, with us having almost ZERO desire to get free indeed. And we think this is what God intended when He sent His Son to die in our place and buy for us new natures that indeed could be transformed by His indwelling us into His image? And in all this, we do not think we may need to be awakened? Lord, have mercy on us until you awaken us from our callous lack of concern and contentment without godliness of character. You need to just pay attention to your own walk and stop thinking that you have the right to assume the worst about the rest of us. Just mind your own business. Most of us are drawing close to the Lord each day and serve Him, albeit imperfectly, but sincerely and we draw on his power and His mercy daily. And we don't need any lectures from you. Edited May 2, 2018 by shiloh357 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heleadethme Posted May 2, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 15 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,371 Content Per Day: 1.36 Reputation: 3,268 Days Won: 5 Joined: 07/10/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 2, 2018 16 minutes ago, Yowm said: Let me put it this way, what are you going to add to the finished work at Calvary? IOW where is the other 1/2 of 1Cor 15:1-4? Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: (1Co 15:1-4) That is the issue I keep bringing up and only find mirages as answers attempting to come up with another 1/2. The imputed part, as you say, is not the Gospel but a result of Christ's work. Do we dare add to His work? So.....no leaving behind the elementary things to go on to perfection then? The gospel is not contained in it's entirety in one solitary little passage, it encompasses all that it took Jesus over three years to teach and demonstrate to the disciples.....as well as all the understanding that came through them later in their writings.....and not to mention what was given in the old testament as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frienduff thaylorde Posted May 2, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 17 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 13,256 Content Per Day: 5.33 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 62 Joined: 07/07/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/25/1972 Share Posted May 2, 2018 Let me put it this way, what are you going to add to the finished work at Calvary To the author of who wrote this , its not adding too the finished works of calvary , ITS LIVING IN the ONE WHO FINISHED IT . the one that bare our sins on the tree, that we being DEAD TO SIN , SHOULD LIVE UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS. THE FINISHED WORKS ON THE CROSS NOT ONLY PAID THE PRICE , IT HAS POWER IN THE BLOOD TO PUT TO DEATH THE OLD MAN AND TO LIVE THE NEW LIFE . IF we gonna quoate the finished works , then quoate all that the cross REPRESENTED . Not some , ALL OF IT . and you will see , why its not ADDING TO ANYTHING , ITS SIMPLY LIVING IT . by the POWER of the one who has SET US FREE . NOW on that note we gotta PRAISE THE LORD> OH MAN we gotta praise the LORD . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frienduff thaylorde Posted May 2, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 17 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 13,256 Content Per Day: 5.33 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 62 Joined: 07/07/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/25/1972 Share Posted May 2, 2018 1 hour ago, Gideon said: Oh, we have free will alright. And it is given to us to make one choice in our valley of decision. Either we choose to remain in control of our lives or we choose to yield up our free will as the last and most precious pearl we can offer the Lord . If what you are saying were true, God wasted a ton of ink and a lot of blood penning the New Testament for us. This is simply an excuse to lay back and do nothing, which is so far from the heart of Paul that it is not even funny. It is like saying “Well, when the Lord wants me to go witness to my neighbor, a mysterious force will lift me out of my barkolounger, float me next door and make my mouth move. Until then, what’s on tv, honey? “ When we finally see that the exhortation to run our race as if there is but one prize was meant to get us down on our knees so we could finally see HOW to do this, we will be rewarded with an amazing revelation. But as long as we use different excuses to justify why we do not want to be fully sanctified, we will simply run another lap around Sinai. Blessings, Gids When we finally see that the exhortation to run our race as if there is but one prize was meant to get us down on our knees so we could finally see HOW to do this, we will be rewarded with an amazing revelation. But as long as we use different excuses to justify why we do not want to be fully sanctified, we will simply run another lap around Sinai. Blessings, OR another way to say it is , WHEN WE LED to the point that we see ourselves as nothing but dire evil things . WE GONNA CRY , AND HE WILL HEAR . HE WILL HEAR. when sin becomes exceeding sinful, and that is the work of the spirit causing us to see this , I remember one night , coming to the end of what I would call self . I had read and read , was on fire for truth and was getting filled by it . But what was happening was it was causing a stirring within me , and a realization OF HOW DEEP and TRULY DEEP I really DID NEED THE SAVOIR to rescue me , from the pits of my own evil . GOD DID THAT , I sure as heck never heard it or experienced it in any church . GOD DID THIS . IT WAS the WORK OF GRACE and it led me to THE TRUE DIRE CRYING OUT to the ONLY one who could save and change me . AND HE HEARD . See, as my head was getting plump with knowledge of truth , as I was feasting by grace on the pages of that bible ANOTHER WORK was occurring , a WORK that was to FULLY and COMPLETELY DRAW ME TO THE SON . THE ONE WHO DOES SET A MAN FREE> I don't know if this makes sense to you . ITS TRUTH though . It also was not long after I receieved the baptism of the HOLY GHOST . and what a strength within . We know we all have erred , but we KNOW THE WAY OUT of any temptation . the latter is what very few know . FOR they have sat under so many doctrines that just teach the GIVE UP ya cant stop sinning . SIT UNDER that , and deny the POWER of the blood I have no intention of doing . SO the cry must he sounded , AWAKE to RIGHTEOUSNESS and SIN NOT . LET all who name the name of Christ depart from inquity . AND the SOLUTOIN was never us , IT IS JESUS . HE IS THE ONE the GREAT HIGH PRIEST , the intercessor , the one who was tempted in all points yet without sin AND HE is the WAY OUT of every temptation . HE CAN AND DOES give aide succor us through every tempatoin that comes our way . THE SPIRIT is real , if obeyed , if followed , one would not fulfill the lusts of the flesh when it does rise up, . THIER IS a way out of every temptation , HIS NAME IS JESUS . but if we believe God does not give us this way out and we fall victim to men of the pit , aka pulpit the pit which pulls down NO STRONGHOLDS , but rather allows the feeling of comfort while in sin , saves none . ONLY THE GOSPLE of JESUS . ONLY JESUS saves . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frienduff thaylorde Posted May 2, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 17 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 13,256 Content Per Day: 5.33 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 62 Joined: 07/07/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/25/1972 Share Posted May 2, 2018 2 hours ago, Still Alive said: On this we agree. But I seriously apply Romans 9. I'm not trying to "get to heaven" and I'm not relying on my faith. Either God called me or I'm wasting my time. It is not by my will, but by His. I have no more free will than Pharaoh. "Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden." Nothing I could do could change that. I can't sin my way out of this, or he never would have chosen me in the first place. The cool thing is that I can apply the hypothetical conversation with a Universalist: "If you are a universalist, what is to stop you from beating me up and stealing my money?" "Nothing, but being a universalist, it would never cross my mind to do that." The same thought process applies to me insomuch as I follow what Paul said, "All things are permissible, but not all things are profitable." So yes, I can enjoy my flesh, as long as it does not consume me vs the spirit. I can enjoy a beer, a cigar, a donut, sex with my wife, and all without guilt. None of them are "missing the mark". It is not what you do that causes problems. Rather, it is why you do it. "If you are a universalist HERE let me finish this sentence . IF you are a universalist , YOU DONT KNOW JESUS and ya aint been saved . That should be how that read . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not me Posted May 2, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 512 Topics Per Day: 0.23 Content Count: 3,189 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 3,351 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/06/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted May 2, 2018 12 hours ago, shiloh357 said: Sanctification is the process that begins AFTER a person is saved. It is the process through which we are conformed into the image of Christ until the day we die. Sanctification does not get us saved and it does not keep us saved, but it reveals that we are saved. Hi, I hope this finds you well. As I’m sure you know, a person could not be considered to be “saved” unless they were born again. This birth is real, and that which comes to life is called the “New Creation” in scripture. Scripture also says “that which is born of God sins not”. It is the New Creation that can not sin. To separate the New Creation from holiness or sanctification cannot be done because the New Creation is that life in the believer, that causes the believer to be sanctified or made holy. I believe the OP was trying to bring forth the “how”, according to scripture, one might bring this manifestion of holiness to be brought forth in their life. This manifestion of holiness is called in scripture “putting on Christ” or “Christ being formed”in the believer. For the direct purpose of causing the believer to walk a victorious Christian life. A life that is holy and set apart by God, where victory over the “old man” and his deeds is manifested in the life of the believer. This is accomplished by the putting off the old nature and putting on that which does not sin. (the new creation). In scripture this is put forth a couple of ways one being what the OP was trying to bring forth. “ reckon yourself dead onto sin but alive onto God”. Another way this same truth is put forth is “I have been crucified with Christ, it is no longer I that live but Christ that lives in me” same truth just different words. But this was not my purpose for my post. It was being discussed what the Gospel or the “Good News” was. So I brought forth when it was first spoken of by God. (Which was in Genesis.) Seeing how when it was first spoken about with these words, “the seed of the woman shall bruise the serpent’s head”. That this was the first speaking of the Good News, all things must have been included in it. The whole process of Christ. That which would be necessary to undo the fall of Adam and to restore man to his unfallen state. Much love in Christ, Not me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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