Noah's and Lot days...WARNING

[Guest Bon22]

Today we have in Canada the banning of the first chapter of Romans for public reading by law because it offends homosexuals.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

WOWEE! That IS a sign of the times isn't it?

We have become conditioned to be accepting of just about anything today.

Gay marriage....same sex parents....Heck! even people who aren't gay are giving it a go, because it's cool and hip, and ANYTHING goes.....

....and even a loving and accepting God must agree that it's OK, because it's not doing anybody any harm, and it's all about LOVE and not war...right?

...and we can't upset anybody's feelings or deny anyone their rights either.

But we can "take-away" from the Word of God if we do so desire.

"God!......ya gotta keep up with the times mate!.....we'll just make a few ammendments to your little book here. ....OK with you? ......Of course it is!"

Hmmmm!

Shalom from Bon

[Tishri 1]

Hi y'all, I don't know if this thread or any relating to this one has touched on this topic at all but there was definately a day in mind when the rapture could possibly take place.....I'm not trying to change people's minds here cus I understand that we all can't possibly share every belief the same so this is just a wee little contribution from me

1 Corinthians 15:51-52 51 Behold, I tell you a (a)mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be (b)changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for (a)the trumpet will sound, and (b)the dead will be raised (1)imperishable, and ©we shall be changed.

1 Thessalonians 4:13 - 5:11 13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words. NKJ 1 Thessalonians 5:1 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, "Peace and safety!" then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. 8 But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. 9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him. 11 Therefore comfort each other and edify one another,

Revelation 4:1-2 NAS Revelation 4:1 After (a)these things I looked, and behold, (b)a door standing open in heaven, and the first voice which I had heard, ©like the sound of a trumpet speaking with me, (1)said, (d)"Come up here, and I will e)show you what must take place after these things." 2 Immediately I was 1a)in the Spirit; and behold, (b)a throne was standing in heaven, and ©One sitting on the throne.

these are all descriptions of the Feast of Trumpets or Rosh Ha Shannah a Feast Day that God appointed back in Leviticus. Remember how Jesus had his first comming on the spring feasts, I would look for the rest of the story to happen on the fall feasts.

[Trust & Obey]

Good Day jc 49

I ve been trying to warn them. Some of them believe this is all fun and games. Read some of my posts

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Its always this way. They cannot scripturally refute what we say, so they talk...

WSB, I gotts say this sounds a lot like you with the question about John the Baptist in our other thread. I haven't seen a scriptural explanation on your end and I'm eagerly awating it, brother.

Jesus said, "Ye SHALL have persecution" and that they would deliver us up in the synagogues and the courts and falsely acuse us and put us to death. Who do you think is going to be doing that to if everyone is secretly taken out of the world? They can't persecute christians if there aren' any here, sadly.

Who was Jesus' audience when He spoke those words? Answer: Jews. This is obvious by the term "synagogues." Gentiles are not going to be brought into the synagogues.

Oh the many things we can come up with when we take things out of context.

Don't put your hope in a false pre-trib rapture, when the Bible doesn't teach any such thing.

Then please explain this passage:

Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

And, please don't ignore this like the John the Baptist passage.

And remember, iron sharpens iron. Let's keep it all in good spirits as we chat. What would be best is to answer over in our trib debate thread so we don't hijack this thread when we have a perfectly good one going somewhere else.

[gypc]

I have read this whole thread and it's almost a good one. jc49...awesome start. You said it plainly and clearly..........that was the Lord.

[Trust & Obey]

Today we have in Canada the banning of the first chapter of Romans for public reading by law because it offends homosexuals.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

WOWEE! That IS a sign of the times isn't it?

We have become conditioned to be accepting of just about anything today.

Gay marriage....same sex parents....Heck! even people who aren't gay are giving it a go, because it's cool and hip, and ANYTHING goes.....

....and even a loving and accepting God must agree that it's OK, because it's not doing anybody any harm, and it's all about LOVE and not war...right?

...and we can't upset anybody's feelings or deny anyone their rights either.

But we can "take-away" from the Word of God if we do so desire.

"God!......ya gotta keep up with the times mate!.....we'll just make a few ammendments to your little book here. ....OK with you? ......Of course it is!"

Hmmmm!

Shalom from Bon

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, like they say, "there's no such thing as 'bad publicity.'" Hopefully, this will draw more attention to the issues spoken of in Rom. 1.

I have to agree that times are getting tough. I agree that the Lord is coming soon!

[other one]

People have always thought that they were living in the "End Times".  People have always looked for "signs" that God was coming back and that the Great Tribulation was going to begin.

I, however, do not believe that "judgment" is coming soon.  I doubt that I'll see it in this time, and I think that God will come when it is time for Him to come, and not when some people believe that the conditions laid out in the bible predicting the era that He will come in, believe He will come....  *shrug*  We won't ever know, though, until it happens.

???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fluffy, I can certainly understand how you feel. It is like people are looking for some reason to be in the end, and we should not really want the end to be here. Lost chances for getting others saved will be the result of the end times.

I might point out though that the book of Luke has something unique in it's passages that is a little more definitive than other places.

Luke 21:7-34

7 And they questioned Him, saying, "Teacher, when therefore will these things be? And what will be the sign when these things are about to take place?" 8 And He said, "See to it that you be not misled; for many will come in My name, saying, 'I am He,' and, 'The time is at hand'; do not go after them. 9 "And when you hear of wars and disturbances, do not be terrified; for these things must take place first, but the end does not follow immediately." 

10 Then He continued by saying to them, "Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, 11 and there will be great earthquakes, and in various places plagues and famines; and there will be terrors and great signs from heaven. 12 "But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and will persecute you, delivering you to the synagogues and prisons, bringing you before kings and governors for My name's sake. 13 "It will lead to an opportunity for your testimony. 14 "So make up your minds not to prepare beforehand to defend yourselves; 15 for I will give you utterance and wisdom which none of your opponents will be able to resist or refute. 16 "But you will be delivered up even by parents and brothers and relatives and friends, and they will put some of you to death, 17 and you will be hated by all on account of My name. 18 "Yet not a hair of your head will perish. 19 "By your endurance you will gain your lives.

20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is at hand. 21 "Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are in the midst of the city depart, and let not those who are in the country enter the city; 22 because these are days of vengeance, in order that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 "Woe to those who are with child and to those who nurse babes in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land, and wrath to this people, 24 and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

25 "And there will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and upon the earth dismay among nations, in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves, 26 men fainting from fear and the expectation of the things which are coming upon the world; for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 "And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 "But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near." 

29 And He told them a parable: "Behold the fig tree and all the trees; 30 as soon as they put forth leaves, you see it and know for yourselves that summer is now near. 31 "Even so you, too, when you see these things happening, recognize that the kingdom of God is near. 32 "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all things take place. 33 "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.

NASB

In these passages Jesus is telling the first century saints what will happen in the end times, This is the part in blue. But note that he told them not to worry about that part for they were to experience other things during their time. These are in green. Notice that the dividing between what was to happen to the first century saints and the end times saints is the trodden underfoot of Jerusalem.

June 30, 1967 the nation of Israel took power over the streets of Jerusalem and ended the times of the Gentiles. We then switch back to the wars and rumors of wars and the signs in the sun, moon and heavenly bodies.

The part that I made red is the parable that states when you see these things start to happen there will be only one generation before all is accomplished.

So I would have to disagree that judgment may be far away. I don't know how long a generation is..... (Old Testament average for the times of Kings and Chronicles is about 45 to 48 years, which would not be too far in the future.

A lot of prophesy people picked the 1948 date to look at things, but is was not what the bible actually said.

Luke is the only place that I have found that talks about something we can put our fingers on and see that it has happened. Other places speaks of spreading the Gospel to all the world and such things that can't really be qualified as happening at some particular time

Give a bit of thought to that and you might get caught up in the excitement of verse 28

You can get involved in history and see that many many things changed over the world in the summer of 1967, and few of them were good.

There are a lot of secular reasons to look at this time for the trib and His return, but I don't think it is a good idea to mix those with bible study.

Sam

[Christ's Free Servant]

People have always thought that they were living in the "End Times".  People have always looked for "signs" that God was coming back and that the Great Tribulation was going to begin.

I, however, do not believe that "judgment" is coming soon.  I doubt that I'll see it in this time, and I think that God will come when it is time for Him to come, and not when some people believe that the conditions laid out in the bible predicting the era that He will come in, believe He will come....  *shrug*  We won't ever know, though, until it happens.

???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fluffy,

I appreciate your candor on this subject, but my belief in the coming judgment of God has to do with God personally revealing that to me. The Bible states that the Lord confides in those who fear him. He longs to have that kind of relationship with each one of us. I believe a judgment of God is coming on this earth very soon. I know it because God has revealed it to me. And, I know it is his voice, because I know his voice from spending time with him each and every day.

When I am faced with something that challenges my faith and something I question, I take it to the Lord in prayer. And, I read his word. I truly do understand that this belief is something foreign to you and not one you might easily accept, but I would challenge you to search your heart and to search the scriptures and to bathe this in prayer asking God to show you his truth before you make a final judgment on the matter.

The Lord has confirmed his message to me many times over through his word and through other people. When he first gave me this message, I was not studying End Times and I was not on any websites where people were discussing End Times. This came strictly through my daily quiet times with Him. I had no idea that he was telling hundreds of people across this nation the same exact thing. But, I have read many other people's testimonies of God's messages to them, and it daily amazes me how similar the words are to the very words God said to me.

This is not anything I can prove, but I would ask anyone who doubts to check it out against the word of God with all sincerity and with an open heart to let God speak to you and show you what he says about all of this. Surely this is coming and it is coming soon. And, I don't believe the church is going to be raptured out first.

[Trust & Obey]

Jesus was talking about the specific local church to which the letter was addressed, and not the entire body.

To the church at Smyrna, he says something quite different:

Rev. 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

The Lord put this church through a period of tribulation lasting "ten days".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

WSB, the letters to the 7 churches actually have multiple applications. Although the letter was indeed written to a specific church in that day, it has historical and present day applications.

Each church represents a period of church history, and each letter also refers to a specific portion of the body of Christ.

I have an article by Chuch Missler that I'm going to paste below because I think it is a great summary of the issue:

The Book of Revelation

Revelation is the only book in the Bible that promises a special blessing to the reader.1 (Many passages tell us to read the Bible in general terms. Only one book has the audacity to say, in effect, Read me; I'm special.)

Early in my teens, I encountered a Bible teacher who heralded that The Book of Revelation is written in code; but every code is explained somewhere else in the Bible.

That really caught my attention. And that discovery changed my entire life.

The Seven Letters

Ask any Bible student how many epistles (letters) are in the New Testament. He will probably answer 21 : 13 authored by Paul, plus Hebrews, which appears anonymous;2 and the seven "general epistles" by Peter, James, John, and Jude.

We usually overlook the seven most important letters: the seven authored by Jesus personally. For many reasons, these seven letters, comprising Chapters 2 and 3 of the Book of Revelation, are probably the most important part of this book for you and me.

Why These Seven?

There were many other churches at that time that would seem to be more historically significant than the seven that Jesus addressed: the churches at Jerusalem, Rome, Galatia, Corinth, Antioch, Colossae, Iconium, Lystra, Derbe, Miletus, to name a few. Why did Jesus select just these seven Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamos, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea?

Four Levels of Meaning

There appear to be at least four levels of application to these letters:

  1. Local: These were actual, historic churches, with valid needs. Archaeological discoveries have confirmed this.

  2. Admonitory: In each of the letters there appears the key phrase, "Hear what the Spirit says to the churches". Note the plural, churches. It turns out that each of the letters applies to all churches throughout history. As we understand the sevenfold internal structure, the uniquely tailored messages, and the specific admonitions in each of the letters, we discover that any church can be "mapped" in terms of these seven composite profiles.

  3. Homiletic: Each of the letters also contains the phrase, "He that hath an ear let him hear..." Doesn't each of us "have an ear"? Each letter applies to each of us. There are some elements of each of these seven "churches" in each of us. Thus, this may be the most practical application of the entire Book of Revelation.

  4. Prophetic: The most amazing discovery, however, of these seven letters is their apparent prophetic application. These letters describe, with remarkable precision, the unfolding of all subsequent church history.

These letters describe, with remarkable precision, the unfolding of all subsequent church history. If these letters were in any other order, this would not be true!

These letters appear to fill the interval between the 69th and 70th "weeks" of Daniel 9. The Book of Acts covers about 30 years; these two chapters of the Book of Revelation cover the next 1,900 years.

Seven Key Elements

A key aspect to understanding the letters is to grasp the structure of their design. A careful examination of the letters reveals seven key elements in their design:

  1. The meaning of the name of the church being addressed (see below);

  2. The title of Jesus, each chosen relevant to the message to that particular church;

  3. The commendation of things that have been done well;

  4. The "criticism" of things that need attention;

  5. The exhortation, specific to the condition of the particular church;

  6. The promise to the "overcomer" included with each letter;

  7. The key phrase, "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches."

The Meaning of Names

Ephuses:  The Desired One

Smyna:  Myrrh; Death

Pergamos:  Mixed Marriage

Thyatira:  Semiramis

Sardis:  Remnant

Philadelphia:  Brotherly Love

Laodicea:  People Rule

It is also interesting that this key phrase in element 7 is the final element in the last four letters, but appears before the "Promise to the Overcomer" (element 6) in the first three, leaving the promises as a kind of post script after the body of the letters themselves. This design suggests that the first three letters and the last four may share some particular characteristic. [it is also interesting that only the last four letters include explicit references to our Lord's Second Coming.]

The Missing Elements

Once the basic structure is evident, one also notices that two of the letters, Smyrna and Philadelphia, have no Criticism, Element 4. That's encouraging for them.

Also, two of the letter, Sardis and Laodicea, have no Commendation, Element 5. That's rather grim.

The Prophetic View

If these seven letters really do include a preview of all church history, then where are we now? Are we, indeed, in the period suggested by the letter to Laodicea?

Judge for yourself.

[Tishri 1]

People have always thought that they were living in the "End Times".  People have always looked for "signs" that God was coming back and that the Great Tribulation was going to begin.

I, however, do not believe that "judgment" is coming soon.  I doubt that I'll see it in this time, and I think that God will come when it is time for Him to come, and not when some people believe that the conditions laid out in the bible predicting the era that He will come in, believe He will come....  *shrug*  We won't ever know, though, until it happens.

???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fluffy, I can certainly understand how you feel. It is like people are looking for some reason to be in the end, and we should not really want the end to be here. Lost chances for getting others saved will be the result of the end times.

I might point out though that the book of Luke has something unique in it's passages that is a little more definitive than other places.

Luke 21:7-34

7 And they questioned Him, saying, "Teacher, when therefore will these things be? And what will be the sign when these things are about to take place?" 8 And He said, "See to it that you be not misled; for many will come in My name, saying, 'I am He,' and, 'The time is at hand'; do not go after them. 9 "And when you hear of wars and disturbances, do not be terrified; for these things must take place first, but the end does not follow immediately." 

10 Then He continued by saying to them, "Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, 11 and there will be great earthquakes, and in various places plagues and famines; and there will be terrors and great signs from heaven. 12 "But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and will persecute you, delivering you to the synagogues and prisons, bringing you before kings and governors for My name's sake. 13 "It will lead to an opportunity for your testimony. 14 "So make up your minds not to prepare beforehand to defend yourselves; 15 for I will give you utterance and wisdom which none of your opponents will be able to resist or refute. 16 "But you will be delivered up even by parents and brothers and relatives and friends, and they will put some of you to death, 17 and you will be hated by all on account of My name. 18 "Yet not a hair of your head will perish. 19 "By your endurance you will gain your lives.

20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is at hand. 21 "Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are in the midst of the city depart, and let not those who are in the country enter the city; 22 because these are days of vengeance, in order that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 "Woe to those who are with child and to those who nurse babes in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land, and wrath to this people, 24 and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

25 "And there will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and upon the earth dismay among nations, in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves, 26 men fainting from fear and the expectation of the things which are coming upon the world; for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 "And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 "But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near." 

29 And He told them a parable: "Behold the fig tree and all the trees; 30 as soon as they put forth leaves, you see it and know for yourselves that summer is now near. 31 "Even so you, too, when you see these things happening, recognize that the kingdom of God is near. 32 "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all things take place. 33 "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.

NASB

In these passages Jesus is telling the first century saints what will happen in the end times, This is the part in blue. But note that he told them not to worry about that part for they were to experience other things during their time. These are in green. Notice that the dividing between what was to happen to the first century saints and the end times saints is the trodden underfoot of Jerusalem.

June 30, 1967 the nation of Israel took power over the streets of Jerusalem and ended the times of the Gentiles. We then switch back to the wars and rumors of wars and the signs in the sun, moon and heavenly bodies.

The part that I made red is the parable that states when you see these things start to happen there will be only one generation before all is accomplished.

So I would have to disagree that judgment may be far away. I don't know how long a generation is..... (Old Testament average for the times of Kings and Chronicles is about 45 to 48 years, which would not be too far in the future.

A lot of prophesy people picked the 1948 date to look at things, but is was not what the bible actually said.

Luke is the only place that I have found that talks about something we can put our fingers on and see that it has happened. Other places speaks of spreading the Gospel to all the world and such things that can't really be qualified as happening at some particular time

Give a bit of thought to that and you might get caught up in the excitement of verse 28

You can get involved in history and see that many many things changed over the world in the summer of 1967, and few of them were good.

There are a lot of secular reasons to look at this time for the trib and His return, but I don't think it is a good idea to mix those with bible study.

Sam

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very good Insight Sam and also we cant ignore the 7000 year plan of God...Anyone know it?

[Trust & Obey]

I believe in dispensationalism, but I still don't find scriptural evidence to suggest a rapture. The Rev. 3:10 passage is referring back to the warning made to the church of Smyrna, which I posted last post.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jesus did say, "He that hath ears to hear, let him hear!"

Well, you and I have ears to hear. Hear!