The Fear of the Lord, The Beginning of Wisdom

[tsth]

You are trying to cast doubt upon The Word of God. The God of the universe, Who can resurrect your dead body..........surely He is capable of keeping His Word for all of time, as well!

In regard to fear, you preach that the fear of the Lord is far from you. So be it.

Yet you are not in agreement with His Word.

Psalm 34:9

Oh, fear the Lord, you His saints! There is no want to those who fear Him.

Psalm 36:1 An oracle within my heart concerning the transgression of the wicked: There is no fear of God before his eyes.

Romans 3:18 "There is no fear of God before their eyes."

In His Truth,

Suzanne

[Anne]

Suzanne!!!!

Good to see you again sister.

In response to End Times, I just wanted to share this with you:- (here's a hug for you also brother )

I was looking through Luke Chapter 12 and read the following parable, which most of us, I think will be familiar with, it begins at verse 10:-

10. Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

11. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

12. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

13. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Both men followed their rituals, laws of attendance, fasting etc; but one did more, much more than the other.

I noticed that what set them apart was the fear in the publicans heart that caused him to humble himself before God.

The publican would not even lift his eyes towards Heaven, surely this would not have happen had he not feared God and been ashamed of himself, equally the publicans heart ached, surely this would have not occurred had he not loved God?

Fear of God in the Christian heart keeps the spirit humble, and a humble heart is drawn closer to the love of God with each passing day. I would rather live with a respectful fear of God, than not, equally I would rather have love in my heart for God, than not.

I love God therefore I fear to do wrong in His eyes.

I'd rather have both fear and love for God.

Anne

[tsth]

Ahhh, what a lovely post sister!

Good to see you again too! Hope you are doing well and have been blessed abundantly.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[SamP]

Wisdom is one of Gods greatest gifts to us. We are to fear the Lord but the word fear means "respect." We are to respect and honor God our Father, even as we did as children toward our parents.

We are never to be afraid of God our Father as He desires us to have a wonderful one on one relationship with Him. We are to have complete respect and honor for Him.

I used to fear my Dad (have lots of respect ) but I was never afraid of him. That's how God wants us to be toward Him.

Sinners are the ones that should be afraid, because God created hell for the devil and his angels and for all who die outside of Gods precious Salvation.

[Anne]

Isaiah 29:13

"And the Lord said: "Because this people draw near with their mouth and honor me with their lips, while their hearts are far from me, and their fear of me is a COMMANDMENT OF MEN learned by rote".

God tells us that we MUST love Him with every fiber of our being, leaving no room for fear...

Mark 12:30

"and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength".

Mark 7:8

"You leave the commandment of God, and hold fast the tradition of men."

It doesn't even make sense to love and fear at the same time.

If a parent truly loves their child, they would be devasted to be told by the child that the parent is feared by them.

Do you really believe that God is pleased that you fear Him? (or don't you care about what PLEASES Him, do you only care about "COMMANDS"/commandments?).

What is in YOUR heart? (not "What is in THE BIBLE?", "What is in your HEART?").

Firstly, brother

Of course I care about Gods' commandments, this surely should be the case in every Christians heart.

"This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you."

John 11 v 12

as do I care about love for God.

"And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength; this is the first commandment.

"And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, There is none other commandment greater than these

Mark 12 v 30, 31

It is a good thing that Christians care about God's commandments, don't you think, for among God's commandments, the command to love is the greatest.

With regards to your quotation of, Isaiah 29 v 13

"Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:"

This verse, in no way denotes that to fear the Lord God is wrong or incorrect in some way, it simply reveals that the fear(of God) the people in that time had learned, was taught to them of man and not of God. So in that, yes, their fear was incorrect. Also, this verse says "and their fear is a commandment of men learned by rote," it DOES NOT say "fear of God is a commandment of men learned by rote."

You said, "God tells us that we MUST love Him with every fibre of our being, leaving no room for fear."

Agreed that we must love the Lord God Almighty, with all our heart, soul and mind, but are we really told to leave no room for fear of God?

Even Joseph feared God,

"And Joseph said unto them the third day, This do, and live, for I fear God."

Genesis 42 v 18

"And now, Israel, what doth the Lord thy God require of thee, but to fear the Lord thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,"

Deuteronomy 10 v 12

"That all the people of the earth might know the hand of the LORD, that it is mighty: that ye might fear the LORD your God for ever."

Joshua 4 v 24

King David had this to say:-

"Let them now that fear the LORD say, that his mercy endureth for ever."

Psalm 118 v 4

"And they were all amazed, and they glorified God, and were filled with fear, saying, we have seen strange things to day."

Luke 5 v 26

"And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou are rebuked of him: For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth."..............."Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grevious: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.".........."And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake:)".............."Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:"

Hebrew 12 v's 5 - 28

Why does it not make sense to love yet fear God, brother?

If a parent, like our Father in Heaven, truly loves their child then it is correct for that parent to chasten (in a just manner) any wrong doing on the childs behalf, the fear of this chastening in noway negates love that a child may have for their parent.

Yes I do believe that respectful fear of God pleases Him, for reason cited in the verses above.

What is in my heart, is to seek out what is in the Bible.

You said "Or don't you care about what PLEASES God," such insinuations, brother, deserve no response.

End Times, may I ask, what do you feel fear is, are there different forms of fear?

Anne

[mari19]

I should be scared of god?

[Anne]

Not scared as in , if you are a Christian, you should hold a respectful fear.

[Anne]

End Times, ( there's some hugging for you just so you know i'm not void of love )

My deepest concern has never been, and may it never be, to concern myself more with pleasing others rather than God, though to be fair it would be an honourable thing to God if my life reflected Him more. If salvation, or proof of my love for God relied solely on being a person of good standing, or having my works reflect the state of my love and obedience to God, then if truth be known, I will have failed miserably.

"For by grace are ye save through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

Ephesians 2 v's 8 - 9

I am not questioning the love of God for me or any of His children. For there is no love greater than the love God has for His children.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."

John 3 v's 15 - 16

Nor am I questioning that we live under a new covenant. If it wasn't for the fact that God made a new covenant with us, my goodness...........it just dosen't bear thinking about.

"But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises"

Hebrews 8 v 6

"And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance."

Hebrews 9 v 15

I'm not questioning love at all, I see how precious a gift it truely is.

End Times from here on i've highlighted parts of your comments in blue, they're things I want to further ask you about.

"Love is a priniciple (dichotomy, you either love only, or you don't truly love at all)."

Says who? You?.............The education authorities? The colleges and universities? The scientific community? The theologists? The Bible colleges?.....Who brother?

I've read 1 Corinthians chapter 13, and nowhere in that chapter does it ever say that you either love only, or you don't truely love at all. If anything verse 13 states "And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity." (for those using KJV, Charity is Love).

Three things, FAITH.........HOPE.............CHARITY(love). 1 corinthians chapter 13, does not say anything even in the field of......"you either love only, or you don't truely love at all." And quite frankly, i'm not sure that there is a person alive, who's heart is full of love 100% of the time, hate, anger, jealously, pride, to name a few, creeps into the heart of even the most sincere believer, now and again.

So to say you either "love only" or you don't "truly love at all," is an incorrect statement and I have, as yet, not found such a statement supported in the Scriptures. I'd like you to show that to me.

Are you saying that as love isn't rational and God is love, therefore, God is not rational??? You might want to explain that one a little more to me.

going to continue this in a further post.........

[Shiloh62]

I was compelled to post this, as I have heard much opposition to the teaching and expounding on the fear of the Lord. It is SO necessary to our relationship with Him and our well-being.

Proverbs 1

7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, But fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Proverbs 15

33 The fear of the LORD is the instruction of wisdom; and before honour is humility.

Wisdom was once explained to me as the ability to make decisions based on the Word of God. I am finding how it is much like the pearl described in Matthew.

Understanding is to see God at work around you and to be in agreement with Him.

Proverbs 3

13 Happy is the man who finds wisdom, And the man who gains understanding; 14 For her proceeds are better than the profits of silver, And her gain than fine gold. 15 She is more precious than rubies, And all the things you may desire cannot compare with her. 16 Length of days is in her right hand, In her left hand riches and honor. 17 Her ways are ways of pleasantness, And all her paths are peace. 18 She is a tree of life to those who take hold of her, And happy are all who retain her. 19 The Lord by wisdom founded the earth; By understanding He established the heavens;

What is Wisdom and Understanding?

Proverbs 4

4 He also taught me, and said to me: "Let your heart retain my words; Keep my commands, and live. 5 Get wisdom! Get understanding! Do not forget, nor turn away from the words of my mouth. 6 Do not forsake her, and she will preserve you; Love her, and she will keep you. 7 Wisdom is the principal thing; Therefore get wisdom. And in all your getting, get understanding.

The Beginning of Wisdom

Proverbs 1

7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, But fools despise wisdom and instruction.

The fear of the Lord is as this:

8:13 The fear of the Lord is to hate evil;

Pride and arrogance and the evil way And the perverse mouth I hate. 14 Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom; I am understanding, I have strength.

3:7 Do not be wise in your own eyes; Fear the Lord and depart from evil. 8 It will be health to your flesh, And strength to your bones.

23:17 Do not let your heart envy sinners, But be zealous for the fear of the Lord all the day; 18 For surely there is a hereafter, And your hope will not be cut off.

19 Hear, my son, and be wise; And guide your heart in the way. 20 Do not mix with winebibbers, Or with gluttonous eaters of meat; 21 For the drunkard and the glutton will come to poverty, And drowsiness will clothe a man with rags.

The Beginning of Wisdom

Proverbs 1

7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, But fools despise wisdom and instruction.

It is so very valuable!

Proverbs 3:13 Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding. 14 For the merchandise of it is better than the merchandise of silver, and the gain thereof than fine gold. 15 She is more precious than rubies: and all the things thou canst desire are not to be compared unto her.

Proverbs 4

4 He also taught me, and said to me: "Let your heart retain my words; Keep my commands, and live. 5 Get wisdom! Get understanding! Do not forget, nor turn away from the words of my mouth. 6 Do not forsake her, and she will preserve you; Love her, and she will keep you. 7 Wisdom is the principal thing; Therefore get wisdom. And in all your getting, get understanding.

Matthew 13

44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field. 45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls: 46 Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.

It is of great worth to hear and love and obey the Word of the Lord. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of this.

In His Love,

Suzanne

Are there people out there that are really not scared of the wrath of God? Thats insane.

[Anne]

It would appear so Shiloh, unfortunately....

There are not 4 TYPES of love (as is commonly taught). Philos, eros, agape, and storge are types of love RELATIONSHIPS, not love itself.

God loves us, He doesn't also fear us (we should love Him and each other AS He loves us).

In Paul's time, some Jews/Israelites/Hebrews were coming to learn Jesus devotion, but couldn't completely shed all of their beliefs, practices, and traditions. Very often, Paul found himself repeatedly dealing with these old traditions and attitudes, that is why we don't receive a VERY CLEAR idea of what a NEW TESTAMENT devotion should be from scripture.

The new testament/covenant devotion is a LOVE (holy spirit) devotion (that is what the LIVING water that flowed from Christ's side is all about, 1 John 5:6, John 7:38).

When I was growing up, I didn't refrain from doing things wrong because of any retribution/reprisal/punishment (all of that would have been just, I wouldn't have held that against my dad), I refrained from doing wrong because WRONG IS WRONG. When I was rebellious and caused mischief, I would not RESENT my dad for teaching me the error of my way (my dad did not "punish" me, he taught me the error of my way, he never had to be DRASTIC in "punishment" unless I was EXTREMELY mischievious). I never FEARED him teaching me the error of my way (and am very glad he did) because I knew better than to fear his loving guidance/instruction.

That is where FEAR of God comes from (RESENTING His guidance, resentment is not done by a GODLOVER).

So, if you want to be a GODLOVER, do not resent His loving guidance (and He will teach you well the "depths of God", 1 Corinthians 2:10) so that you can have a "more excellent" devotion (1 Corinthians 12:31) based on "the GREATEST of these" (1 Corinthians 13:13) and you will have a "faith FOR FAITH" (Romans 1:17, Hebrews 11:6).

There is a second (deeper) message in the bible for those who wish to be a "GOD LOVER", but the "STRONG delusion" has always hidden it from those who are satisfied by simply being a member in good standing of man's religious system.

As "babes in Christ", we simply read the "doctrine of Christ" (Hebrews 6:1), but then should move on to a more mature relationship with God and become a God LOVER...

1 Corinthians 3:1

"But I, brethren, could not address you as spiritual men, but as MEN OF THE FLESH, as babes in Christ".

http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/tran...;t=RSV&sf=5

http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/tran...;t=RSV&sf=5

Originally, Jesus devotion was called "THE WAY"...

Acts 24:22

"But Felix, having a rather accurate knowledge of the Way".

...then became known as "Christian" (no spiritually legitimate reason)

Acts 11:26

"and in Antioch the disciples were for the first time called Christians".

All verses are from the RSV.

Okay, let's continue...

I have never, ever, EVER, nor has anyone else, cause i've just read through their posts, suggested in any way, shape or form, that God should fear us......you're the first person to actually bring it up, i'm not sure why........but ya did.

The fear, I am speaking of is the respectful fear a christian child, should have towards Almighty God.

You made the assertion, that we, as His children were not to fear God, you have yet, to provide said scripture to prove this.

You made the assertion, that if we fear God, we don't truely love Him, in fact you even went as far as to accuse us of resenting God. You didn't actually provide Scripture Proof for that either.

You made the assertion, that love was the only thing we were to feel towards God, if this is indeed truth, show me the Scriptures.

If what you say is correct, then it will be in plain sight in the Bible, there will be no need to read between the lines, there will be no need to manipulate verses into saying what we want them to say, it will be in plain text, NOT between the lines.

Quite frankly, End Times, I'm worried that you present a theory that there is no need to fear God.

In my first reply to you I asked you to, show me from the Scriptures, where we are commanded, instructed not to fear God, in our Christian lives with Him........you have yet to answer.

So again, where in the Bible, are we told that fear of God is wrong?

Anne