Beware of the Catholic Church!

[Fidei Defensor]

12 minutes ago, Gary Lee said:

For a long time I thought you were a catholic, Fidei, listening to comments made in posts, and now, defending catholics as though the poster was going against the people and not the hierarchy.  And I notice your avatar has Jesus still hanging on the cross.  That would make you the only non catholic I know who does. I personally cannot say a person is saved or not. Only God, the devil, and the person knows. But I can 'judge' someone by their fruit, or the lack thereof. If ask, I would say you are a born again believer by your knowledge of scripture you have posted and what I have witnessed in your posts. I am ex catholic, was one for thirty years. Most of my relatives, and my older friends are catholic still. If ask, as a born again believer, based upon what I understand of scripture, I would say most of them do not know what you must do to be saved, and most may not know what "born again' even means. Most do not know even a couple of scripture verses they can quote, or read the bible. It was never taught, thanks to RCC catechisms, (holy mother church doctrine). Most rarely go to mass, and would rather not talk about that stuff. Most are decent people, some better than some Christians I know. But not a shred of the spirit of God shining through to my spirit. No comradery  in scriptural discussions tried. The RCC announced back some years their sola scripture stand, salvation by grace. They were trying to keep up with this "born again" craze going around. But, the person has to continue works, and not commit mortal sins, or fall from grace. Catholics of old believe you do not presume upon God your belief that  you can be saved, as in the RCC, that is the sin of presumption. There is some kind of invisible chain holding on to the more devout catholics. My mom was one. She heard the gospel from me a hundred times, as I looked at the pictures on the wall of the virgin Mary staring at me, or a statue of St. Christopher. It's sad. It's satanic.
2Co 4:3-4  But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
 
John 3, 19 "This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil.

I don't judge them.
I tell them about the good news, (the real biblical good news they haven't heard) whenever I can.   And leave the RCC.........
 

I did not know you were ex-Catholic. Please share more of what you know. I am Interdenominational Spirit Filled Evangelical Solae Scripture; I am Divergent. I don’t fit in any box save the Holy Bible. 

I have the Crucifix up to remind me of God’s love, “When we were utterly helpless, Christ came at just the right time and died for us sinners. 7 Now, most people would not be willing to die for an upright person, though someone might perhaps be willing to die for a person who is especially good. 8 But God showed his great love for us by sending Christ to die for us while we were still sinners. 9 And since we have been made right in God’s sight by the blood of Christ, he will certainly save us from God’s condemnation. 10 For since our friendship with God was restored by the death of his Son while we were still his enemies, we will certainly be saved through the life of his Son. 11 So now we can rejoice in our wonderful new relationship with God because our Lord Jesus Christ has made us friends of God.” (Romans 5:6-11). Lutherans and Anglicans have crucifixes in their churches; Luther Himself was fine with the Crucified Christ image because of Paul’s words, “For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.” (1 Corinthians 2:2), “But as for me, may I never boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.” (Galatians 6:4). 

I understand as a former Catholic you might not prefer the Crucifix, but I see it as my Lord’s propitiation and death for my sins; His blood split to let me into holiest place (Hebrews 10:19) and He rose from dead. 

I chose to be gentle with Catholics, as Jude 1:20-23 and to build bridges. That doesn’t mean I agree with Catholic dogmas and beliefs and think the system is good. I want to understand even if I don’t agree. For when I understand I can love but that doesn’t mean I totally agree with someone: Jesus did not agree with our sin but He loves us anyway (Romans 5:8-10). 

[Heleadethme]

16 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Again I would never jump to saying “most Catholics are not born again.”: “on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus,” (Romans 2:16), and, “Butthey will have to give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.” (1 Peter 4:5). I myself chose to never judge the Salavation and born again status of another person. Only Christ really knows if they believe and confess Him. You can judge if someone pronounced publicly to not believe in the Gospel and denies Him (Hebrew 6:4-6). 

I have never been Roman Catholic, I studied it up close for two years to see whaat they believe and delve into theirs doctrines and rites. I know Jesus is the Truth (John 14:6), and I am trying to understand the Catholics and discern if they believe as we Protestant Born Again Spirit Filled do. There is much to contend with: veneration of saints, Mariology (Mexican Tasmuz influence), Purgatory, celibate priests (1 Timothy 4:3), the papal system and more.

However to quote a reformer, “precisely here my friends, we must not act, simply because we have a right to do so. Instead, let us look at what our brothers and sisters need and what would be helpful to them. Paul puts it this way, “Omnia mihi  licent, sed non omnia expedient” (“All things are lawful to me, but all things are not beneficial”). We are not equally strong in the Faith-and many of you have a stronger faith than I. Therefore, we must not look to ourselves or focus on our rights, but to our neighbor. 

As God spoke to Moses, “...I have carried you like a mother carries her child...” What does a mother do with her baby? First she gives it milk, then cereal, then eggs, and then some soft food. If at the onset, she inverted this order and gave her baby solid food, it would do the child no good. Therefore, let us deal with our brothers and sisters like this; endure with them for a sufficient amount of time—carrying their weaknesss and help-ing then bear it. We should also give them milk like we received, until they also grow strong. We don’t travel toward paradise alone. We bring our brothers and sisters with us—even if they are yet not our friends. If mothers were to abandon their children, where would we be? Dear brothers and sisters, when you have finished nursing, do not keep your sibling from being fed. 

If I had been there, I would have preferred things had not been pushed this far. The cause is certainly right, but the pace is too fast. There are sisters and brothers on both sides-folks under our care, whom we need to bring with us.

Its a bit like this. The sun has two effects light and heat. No Ruler has Enough power to control the sun’s light. It remains fixed in place. On the other hand, heat may be turned and guided, and yet always remains around the sun. Similarly, faith remains absolutely secure in our hearts and does not weaken. However, Love bends and turns so that our neighbor may grasp and follow it. There are some who can run, others can walk, and still others who can barely crawl. 

Therefore,  we must not look at our own abilities, but at the abilities of our sisters and brothers —so that the devil does not destroy those who are weak in faith, as the weak in faith struggle to keep up with the strong in faith.” (The Ninety-Five Thesis and Other Writings, Eight Sermons In Lent (1522), Martin Luther,  pg 34-35, Penguin Classics).  

Or if you prefer the Scripture:

“But you, dear friends, must build each other up in your most holy faith, pray in the power of the Holy Spirit, 21 and await the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will bring you eternal life. In this way, you will keep yourselves safe in God’s Love. 

And you must show mercy to those whose faith is wavering. 23 Rescue others by snatching them from the flames of judgment. Show mercy to still others,but do so with great caution, hating the sins that contaminate their lives.” (Jude 1:20-23). 

There is a difference between having faith that is weak and being lukewarm, which Jesus said He would spew out of His Body.  There is a reason why He said He would prefer us to be either hot or cold rather than lukewarm.  It's very hard to convince the lukewarm that they need to repent and receive Christ because they are as though inoculated against the gospel...having just enough of it to give them a false sense of security and cause them not to be able to know their grave need....that is the work of the devil.

As Gary wrote, we shall know them by their fruits.....and most Catholics live like the world.....they drink it up, party, tell off-colour jokes, and consider holiness to be optional.  In many parts of the world they hold onto their pagan practices and beliefs at the same time as they practice Catholicism.  That is not salvation.  It is not hard to see that most Catholics are not born again.  Just go into their churches on a Sunday morning and discern....deadness, lacklustre, no Holy Spirit.

I have known quite a few Catholics and by all means we can and should try and bring the gospel to these captive souls, of course......just do not be unequally yoked with them......and remember that friendship with the world is enmity with God.

[Heleadethme]

7 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

 

deleted post....I had quoted from your quote by accident when I meant to quote from Gary Lee.

Edited August 17, 2018 by Heleadethme

[Heleadethme]

7 hours ago, Gary Lee said:

There is some kind of invisible chain holding on to the more devout catholics.

Amen, I know what you mean, sadly.  I think it's because they cannot serve two masters, they love the one and hate the other, and it's really impossible to love and serve both at the same time.  I'm sorry about your mother....captive to the church rather than being liberated to serve Christ.  They believe they are saved by a thing called "sacraments" and attending "mass", even when they say they are saved by Christ.

[Sower]

6 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

I understand as a former Catholic you might not prefer the Crucifix, but I see it as my Lord’s propitiation and death for my sins; His blood split to let me into holiest place (Hebrews 10:19) and He rose from dead. 

There are crucifixes in my home. Empty. He is risen. It is finished. I do not identify with RCC. Any non catholic understands what the cross represents; I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

7 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

I chose , as Jude 1:20-23 and to build bridges. That doesn’t mean I agree with Catholic dogmas and beliefs and think the system is good. I want to be gentle with Catholics, to understand even if I don’t agree. For when I understand I can love but that doesn’t mean I totally agree with someone: Jesus did not agree with our sin but He loves us anyway (Romans 5:8-10).

You quote;
Jud 1:21  Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
Jud 1:22  And of some have compassion, making a difference:
THEN:.................
Jud 1:23  And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

You say above 'when you understand 'then' you can love'. I say love without having to know all the false dogma, preach Jesus and Him crucified, salvation by grace and not works, not sacraments, not the holy mother church, etc. I believe you would have to know the true gospel to be saved. A given. And, you should already  know now, their preachers/priest, preach a false gospel. I challenge you to prove to me otherwise.
The word of God is sharper than a two edged sword. It cuts to the marrow. Catholics don't need another loving compassionate friend, but a preacher of the true gospel. That's compassion. Bearing precious seed to the lost!
The true gospel is hid to most catholics, as it would set them free, to turn to Christ, to know the truth. When I was catholic and then  heard the first time from a protestant preacher that  I must be born again, that seed eventually set me free. I  plant seed. Or at least break up/prepare the ground to receive same. That is to love catholics.

Psa 126:6  He that goeth forth and weepeth, bearing precious seed, shall doubtless come again with rejoicing, bringing his sheaves with him.

[Fidei Defensor]

3 hours ago, Gary Lee said:

There are crucifixes in my home. Empty. He is risen. It is finished. I do not identify with RCC. Any non catholic understands what the cross represents; I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

You quote;
Jud 1:21  Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
Jud 1:22  And of some have compassion, making a difference:
THEN:.................
Jud 1:23  And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

You say above 'when you understand 'then' you can love'. I say love without having to know all the false dogma, preach Jesus and Him crucified, salvation by grace and not works, not sacraments, not the holy mother church, etc. I believe you would have to know the true gospel to be saved. A given. And, you should already  know now, their preachers/priest, preach a false gospel. I challenge you to prove to me otherwise.
The word of God is sharper than a two edged sword. It cuts to the marrow. Catholics don't need another loving compassionate friend, but a preacher of the true gospel. That's compassion. Bearing precious seed to the lost!
The true gospel is hid to most catholics, as it would set them free, to turn to Christ, to know the truth. When I was catholic and then  heard the first time from a protestant preacher that  I must be born again, that seed eventually set me free. I  plant seed. Or at least break up/prepare the ground to receive same. That is to love catholics.

Psa 126:6  He that goeth forth and weepeth, bearing precious seed, shall doubtless come again with rejoicing, bringing his sheaves with him.

I am a missionary, and when I go into civilizations, cultures, and beliefs I chose to learn about them. I have ministered to Muslims and I chose to learn about their beliefs so that I may share the Gospel in a respectful way and foster relationships. 

People respect you when you know what they believe and understanding where they come from. It shows them honor to understand though not agree. So often people are zealous go share the good news they forget that we arnt. Ollextind trophies but ushering and pleading with people to be reconciled to God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. 

I choose to right error in the church as an apologist, but as a missionary I must be patient; I know a Muslim who has embraced the Gospel, but his neighbors are radical and hate the Gospel. He has to be careful, on one hand he disicples with me on the other he must appear Muslim (he hates the prayers five times a day). Things can be complicated, and in same way I am patient with Catholics, and I acknowledge there are plenty Catholics who are saved and break with Rome. 

[Fidei Defensor]

5 hours ago, Heleadethme said:

There is a difference between having faith that is weak and being lukewarm, which Jesus said He would spew out of His Body.  There is a reason why He said He would prefer us to be either hot or cold rather than lukewarm.  It's very hard to convince the lukewarm that they need to repent and receive Christ because they are as though inoculated against the gospel...having just enough of it to give them a false sense of security and cause them not to be able to know their grave need....that is the work of the devil.

As Gary wrote, we shall know them by their fruits.....and most Catholics live like the world.....they drink it up, party, tell off-colour jokes, and consider holiness to be optional.  In many parts of the world they hold onto their pagan practices and beliefs at the same time as they practice Catholicism.  That is not salvation.  It is not hard to see that most Catholics are not born again.  Just go into their churches on a Sunday morning and discern....deadness, lacklustre, no Holy Spirit.

I have known quite a few Catholics and by all means we can and should try and bring the gospel to these captive souls, of course......just do not be unequally yoked with them......and remember that friendship with the world is enmity with God.

Hence this part: “And you must show mercy to those whose faith is wavering. 23 Rescue others by snatching them from the flames of judgment. Show mercy to still others,but do so with great caution, hating the sins that contaminate their lives.” (Jude 1:20-23). 

[Sower]

19 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said:

I am a missionary, and when I go into civilizations, cultures, and beliefs I chose to learn about them. I have ministered to Muslims and I chose to learn about their beliefs so that I may share the Gospel in a respectful way and foster relationships. 

People respect you when you know what they believe and understanding where they come from. It shows them honor to understand though not agree. So often people are zealous go share the good news they forget that we arnt. Ollextind trophies but ushering and pleading with people to be reconciled to God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. 

I choose to right error in the church as an apologist, but as a missionary I must be patient; I know a Muslim who has embraced the Gospel, but his neighbors are radical and hate the Gospel. He has to be careful, on one hand he disicples with me on the other he must appear Muslim (he hates the prayers five times a day). Things can be complicated, and in same way I am patient with Catholics, and I acknowledge there are plenty Catholics who are saved and break with Rome. 

I cannot think of a better calling/vocation, Fidei, than to be a full time missionary. May God bless your ministry!  And I respect your own methods in the fields. You will use what works for you the most. I won't participate in their pagan worship to gain trust/respect. When I share the gospel to strangers, I share the word, God's word. I show respect, but to God foremost. The preacher that planted the seed in me did not know me, or anything about me. But he showed the utmost respect, to me and God, by giving me the privilege to hear the good news. Never did a nun, priest, bishop, nor the cardinal who 'confirmed' me, tell me I must be saved, born again! I learned early on to not get into a lot of testifying about self, but to create an atmosphere of trust, and present the word. The word is what convicts, NOT my testimony, not my respect or lack. I do try to lead up to the gospel through the conversation, and as an ex catholic, will share my disappointment in the RCC church for not telling me, and my family, the most important thing I could ever hear. I explain my worry and concern for those still in the church who may never hear the truth. Then I speak the gospel out loud, so they hear it. It will not return void. Their choice.

                 Yes, wise as a serpent, harmless as a dove. Let the word cut to the bone. Not lukewarm, but boiling.
                                     Just one beggar, telling another beggar, where to find bread.

 

[Sower]

24 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Hence this part: “And you must show mercy to those whose faith is wavering. 23 Rescue others by snatching them from the flames of judgment. Show mercy to still others,but do so with great caution, hating the sins that contaminate their lives.” (Jude 1:20-23). 

And amen!  OK,  how do you Fidei, show mercy if their faith is wavering? What does that mean to you? Are they already believers? Rescuing them from the flames of judgement would not be a believer. (Jud 1:19  These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.) Yes, cautiously, hating their sinfulness.   The best way to show them mercy would tell them about Jesus, the good news. Would you agree?

[Heleadethme]

1 hour ago, Fidei Defensor said:

I am a missionary, and when I go into civilizations, cultures, and beliefs I chose to learn about them. I have ministered to Muslims and I chose to learn about their beliefs so that I may share the Gospel in a respectful way and foster relationships. 

People respect you when you know what they believe and understanding where they come from. It shows them honor to understand though not agree. So often people are zealous go share the good news they forget that we arnt. Ollextind trophies but ushering and pleading with people to be reconciled to God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. 

I choose to right error in the church as an apologist, but as a missionary I must be patient; I know a Muslim who has embraced the Gospel, but his neighbors are radical and hate the Gospel. He has to be careful, on one hand he disicples with me on the other he must appear Muslim (he hates the prayers five times a day). Things can be complicated, and in same way I am patient with Catholics, and I acknowledge there are plenty Catholics who are saved and break with Rome. 

And when you have made converts, I am sure you do not undermine or try to destabilize their efforts to identify and warn against evil belief systems.  Rather you would encourage their efforts, yes?

Certainly, exercise patience and wisdom and love when evangelizing and witnessing to lost individuals.  Everyone will do that according to their own callings and gifts of the Spirit, as the Lord leads.