Pub Theology

[Guest shiloh357]

5 minutes ago, Badjao33 said:

None. There are no believers that would attend a church at this time. I could plant a church and offer the people incentives to come and it would be overflowing, but I don't believe in the carrot on a stick approach to bringing people into the Church. 

I can't "make" disciples out of people who don't believe. I am, however, in constant prayer that the Holy Spirit will move in the communities I work in. 

There are many native pastors and missionaries already on the ground here in Davao who also take the gospel to the Badjao in many of their communities in other parts of the country. We often share our experiences, pray together and have fellowship. It's a team effort and we learn from one another. 

I actually addressed this very issue in a thread I created earlier this month. here is the link to that:

In that thread I shared the story of Dr. William Leslie. In ministry, as much as we would like to see high numbers of people coming to Christ, things don't always happen the way we would like or as quickly as we would like to see them happen. We just have to continue sharing the gospel, put our faith in God, pray for His will to be done, and if it's His will; it will be in His time, not ours, when the Holy Spirit begins to convict the hearts of  people with the gospel that has been planted. 

 

So the bottom line is that no one is getting born again under your ministry.

[GandalfTheWise]

45 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

So the bottom line is that no one is getting born again under your ministry.

There are two types of ministries where there is no immediate visible fruit.   Those that have no spiritual basis, no anointing, and God has nothing to do with, and are producing no fruit.   Then there are those that are patiently spiritually toiling under God's direction to lay a foundation and plant seeds.  I've met missionaries in places where people flock to the gospel and in places where converts are few and far between.   I know one missionary couple that changed locations (due to health reasons) and saw completely different things in the two locations.  In the one location, there was active visible growth.  In the other location, there was little interest in the gospel.  Same couple, very different levels of visible fruit.

Those who are fooling themselves will have nothing to show for it.  For those who are patiently laboring at God's direction, there will eventually be a harvest.    Time will tell which are which.

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, Badjao33 said:

I don't know if some of those I have reached have become born again or not. In the communities here in Davao I'm not aware of any, but many of the people are nomadic and some of the villages I have visited in the past in other parts of Mindanao have since been destroyed and the people had to relocate to other parts of the country or have left the country completely. I have no Idea what the Holy Spirit is doing behind the scenes in the lives of those I have shared the gospel with over the past several years. I'm not discouraged though because I know God is in control and His thoughts are higher than mine. I hope you will include the Badjao in you prayers. 

Do you actively bring people to a place where they are confronted about their sin and their need for Jesus?  Do you bring them to the place where they need to make a decision to accept or reject Christ?

[Sower]

13 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Do you actively bring people to a place where they are confronted about their sin and their need for Jesus?  Do you bring them to the place where they need to make a decision to accept or reject Christ?

That Shiloh, is a very good question. When sharing the gospel, I will give scripture and testimony. How I discovered the truth, and the results. I'm no preacher, but, I plant seeds. I share (while mentally praying for the words) how they can find the truth in the bible, and why they need to be born again, and if they die without salvation, the result. Because of my timidity caused by fear of loosing my audience, I personally do not push for a decision, because of so many that "walk the isle" that later are never seen again. I personally received a seed of truth that grew, was watered, and blossomed. It took time. For me. I do confront them with their sin, and that only Jesus can save. By their faith. I tell them to read the word, and ask God to show them the truth, and make their own decision before God, and not to please me. Because I may never see them again, I will never know if the soil was good soil when the seeds were planted, till we gather with the Lord.

[Guest shiloh357]

7 minutes ago, Badjao33 said:

I have answered this question for you in another thread in the past.  Here is what my answer was at that time. Nothing has changed. 

 

That isn't what I asked you.  What I asked is this....   Do you confront sinners about their sin and their need for Christ?  Do you bring them to a place of decision where they need to either accept or reject Jesus?  Do you inform the Badjao people that without Christ they are sinners?

I am not asking you so much about exact content, but rather do you actively bring people to an hour of decision and put them in a position where they recognize that they are lost and in danger of an eternity without Jesus and thus show them why Jesus died and that they need to come to that place where they accept or reject Jesus?

[Guest shiloh357]

Just now, Badjao33 said:

 

It's not my place to do this. I'm just a planter and/or waterer.  The rest I leave up to the Holy Spirit. 

 

No, it is your place to do that.  If we don't share that aspect of the Gospel, we are not really sharing the Gospel.   Jesus always brought people to place decision.  That's' what real preachers of the Gospel do.  They don't just inform people and then leave it that.  That is dereliction of duty if we do. Just letting people know isn't either planting or watering.   

The fact is that if you are not actively leading people to that place where they can make a decision, then you are not making disciples as Jesus commanded us to do.  I never leave a person with just information.  I offer them the opportunity to accept or reject Christ.  Some people accept, and some people don't.  But I never leave them hanging.   That's why no one gets born again under your ministry.  You are leaving off the most important part.

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This is what is at the foundation of the message I share, so yes I am telling them that they are sinners and their only hope for salvation is through Jesus Christ.  

Their only hope for salvation as opposed to what?   What are you telling them they need to be saved from?   Do you explain to them that as sinners, they are headed for Hell, that Hell is a real place and that their only hope for avoiding Hell is Jesus?  Do you tell them what Hell is?   How does Hell play into your evangelism?

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, Badjao33 said:

I can't convict people of their sins or tell them to make a decision on the spot. You may think it's your place to to that, but I know it's not mine. 

I didn't say it was your place or anyone's place to convict people of their sin. I asked you if you brought people to a place of decision where people are confronted about their sin, and their need for Jesus.   That is not "convicting" people, but that is giving them the truth and bringing to  place of decision.  

If you don't bring them to a place of decision, you don't know when they will have another chance to make that decision and if they die without Jesus, they will go to Hell.   If you won't give them that chance, you are cheating them out of heaven. 

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I was "saved" by an evangelist like this way back in 1983. I was asked by him to make a decision right then and there at the alter with several others to either accept the gospel or take a chance on burning in Hell for eternity. When I said I accepted Jesus he told me I was "saved" and I believed him. I'm pretty sure I and all the others on that night were chalked up and counted as converts in his book. I went nearly thirty years believing I was "saved" because that is what I was told by that evangelist and many other preachers after him. But I was no more a believer than the rocks in my driveway. It wasn't until 2011 that the Holy Spirit convicted me and I was truly born again, and there wasn't a preacher in sight when that took place. Threatening people with Hell and asking them to accept the gospel on the spot isn't what saves. Unless an individual is convicted by the Holy Spirit and they truly believe in their heart that Jesus died for our sins according to the Scriptures; that He was buried; and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, they are not saved. 

I am not talking about threatening people  with Hell.  I am talking about warning them about the danger that is real.  People need to know the danger they are in and not telling people about the reality of Hell is like passing by a house that is on fire in the middle of night and not stopping and banging on windows to tell the people inside to wake up and try to save their lives. 

 

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If you are counting every single person who professes with their mouth that they accept Jesus, your numbers are going to be severely skewed and you're going to end up with a lot of false converts. 

I am not talking about making converts, I am talking about disciples.   Either way, they need to hear about what it is they need saving from and that includes the reality of Hell.  People need to know that if they choose continued separation and die in that condition, there is an existence and it is not an existence they want. 

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Death, God's wrath, His Judgement. 

It doesn't, I'm not a Hellfire and brimstone preacher. 

 

But I am not talking hellfire and brimstone.   I am talking about the reality of Hell.  Hell is part of the true Gospel.