When do Revelations seals open

[iamlamad]

9 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Iam, Jupiter played the celestial role of the child being born in Rev 12:5. Without Jupiter there is no birth, and Rev 12:1-5 is not fulfilled. Remember, this sign takes place in the heavens. God bless.

This may well be true, that Jupiter is what caused the wise men to know a King was being born, but John did not include that in Rev. 12. Are you going to add it? 

The truth is, Virgo would have appeared EXACTLY as mentioned in Revelation on the night of Jesus' birth.  It is also true, Virgo has appeared like that many times since. 

[iamlamad]

9 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Yes, and the upper room is where the conception of the church began. The upper room was not the birth, it was the conception. And you wonder where the Greek gets the word "sperma"? Every time a person gets saved they get placed into the body of Christ. His body has been growing ever since Acts 2:1-4 up until 2018. The birth of the church is simply a result of the gestation period for the last 2000 years.

So prove this with scripture. Show us all where your three positions of the church are mentioned in scripture. If you can't, then all this is just your imagination.  I want to see the word "birth" in relation to the church, then "conception" as related to the church. I have never seen or even heard of such verses. I have a feeling this is all your imagination.  Have you preached this to a congregation?

[Heb 13:8]

4 hours ago, iamlamad said:

OK, show us some proof of this layering. 

AS far as is possible with 5 things happening at the same time, a few parentheses, and some prophecy (speaking something in one chapter that will take place in a future chapter) Revelation is chronological. 

In other words, everything in one chapter will certainly take place AFTER things in previous chapters and before things in a later chapter.  Events in chapter 12, outside of the parenthesis in the first five verses, will certainly come AFTER the events of chapters 1-11, and before the events of chapters 13-22. 

Question: WHEN did Jesus tell those in Judea to flee?

What is  it about Virgo that causes you to say it was fulfilled in 2017? What is written in Rev. 12 has happened countless times since Jesus' birth. The four blood moons that happened a few years ago: same thing: they have happened several times. However, significant things happened near each time it happened in the past. 

Layering is found in Rev 7:1-3, Rev 14:1-5. Then you have Rev 11:3 coming prior to Rev 11:2. Then you have Rev 14:14-16 occurring at Rev 4, and Rev 14:17-20 occurring at Rev 19. Then you have Rev 7:15-17 occurring in the 1000 yr I believe or New Earth.

Judea flee's at the mid point of the 70th week, at the A of D.

Jupiter was in Virgo's womb for 42 months. The sign was fulfilled, not the action. The sign is not the action. Blood moons happen all the time yes, but it's rare when they fall on Jewish Holidays 2 years in a row, it's called a Tetrad. The last time that happened was in 1948 and 1967 when Israel became a nation and took over Jerusalem. 

[Heb 13:8]

4 hours ago, iamlamad said:

This may well be true, that Jupiter is what caused the wise men to know a King was being born, but John did not include that in Rev. 12. Are you going to add it? 

The truth is, Virgo would have appeared EXACTLY as mentioned in Revelation on the night of Jesus' birth.  It is also true, Virgo has appeared like that many times since. 

No, God is using Jupiter not me, lol. How else can the sign be fulfilled without Jupiter in the womb??????? Right Virgo has appeared like that many times, but never with Jupiter in the womb for 42 months with 12 stars on her crown.

[Heb 13:8]

4 hours ago, iamlamad said:

So prove this with scripture. Show us all where your three positions of the church are mentioned in scripture. If you can't, then all this is just your imagination.  I want to see the word "birth" in relation to the church, then "conception" as related to the church. I have never seen or even heard of such verses. I have a feeling this is all your imagination.  Have you preached this to a congregation?

Ahh yes, the thread that you keep ignoring which has multiple scriptures? Remember, conception always comes before birth. If the birth was in Acts 2:1-4 then where was the conception???????? Actually read the thread this time........

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/224783-three-stages-to-the-body-of-christ/

 

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

No, God is using Jupiter not me, lol. How else can the sign be fulfilled without Jupiter in the womb??????? Right Virgo has appeared like that many times, but never with Jupiter in the womb for 42 months with 12 stars on her crown.

Somehow the Holy spirit failed to show that part to John and he did not write it.  Could it be that Jesus had something else in mind? The sign of Jupiter would have come months before the night of His birth.

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Layering is found in Rev 7:1-3

7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

² And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

³ Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

When one understands what is happening, everything is chronological. There is no layering. 

Have you ever watched a play where they closed the curtain to rearrange the set? That is exactly what John is doing. He broke from his mainline them of the seals between the 6th and 7th because the 7th seal opens the 70th week -  and the set must be rearranged before the 7th seal can be opened: two events must occur: the 44,000 must be sealed for their protection, and dthe church must be safely seen in heaven - and that is exactly what chapter 7 shows us.

The four angels must NOT hurt the earth before the sealing is accomplished. The four angels then wait for the sealing to be accomplished. Everything is done in order. 

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Layering is found in ..., Rev 14:1-5.

14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

² And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

³ And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

⁴ These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

⁵ And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

This is John's second look at the 144,000 that were sealed. Now John sees them in heaven. This is just as the church was seen on earth in chapters 2 & 3, in Rev 7 they are in the throne room. In chapter 19 they are at the marriage.  

I see no layering. I see Chronology.

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Layering is found in Rev 7:1-3, Rev 14:1-5. Then you have Rev 11:3 coming prior to Rev 11:2.

11 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

² But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

³ And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

You are mistaken here in chapter 11. 

What is happening in 11:1-2? It is the man of sin entering Jerusalem. After all, if he is to enter the temple in Jerusalem, he must first ARRIVE in Jerusalem. So he shows up with his Muslim - oh, sorry - Gentile armies  - when will then trample the city for the next 42 months. 

Perhaps only a moment after he enters Jerusalem, the two witnesses show up, right on time, to begin their testimony. They show up then because HE - the man of sin - showed up.  They will then testify for the next 1260 days or most of the last half of the month..

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

 Then you have Rev 14:14-16 occurring at Rev 4,

¹⁴ And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

¹⁵ And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

¹⁶ And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

Why would anyone imagine this was accomplished in chapter 4? 

First, we know that God is not going to harvest humans with a sickle. It is symbolic. Could we call the beheaded arriving in heaven as a harvest? I don't see why not. Chapter 14 shows us a harvest of the righteous and a harvest of the sinner. This is a symbolic and prophetic view of all those who will die from this time on in the week. The beheaded will be the righteous. All or most of those killed at the battle or Armageddon will be the harvesting of the unjust - to include the parable of the tares. 

I see this is prophetic, not out of sequence. The beheadings will begin in chapter 14 or after chapter 14.