Dennis1209 Posted November 6, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 347 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,464 Content Per Day: 2.70 Reputation: 5,375 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted November 6, 2018 Evidently some posts have been removed from this thread? Anyway, for my own information, how do some come up with the idea of annihilation from scripture? The Greek and Hebrew words like 'destruction" etc. don't even hint at that idea, much less plain scripture language? Not trying to start a debate or argument, just trying to understand their reasoning and logic in light of what scripture tells us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Pumpkin* Posted November 6, 2018 Group: Junior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 124 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 153 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/11/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted November 6, 2018 4 hours ago, Reformed Baptist said: If there is no eternal hell, then for you to be consistent there is also no eternal heaven - of course even more seriously, if the wages of sin is ceasing to exist then for Jesus Christ to have paid the price for our sin he would have needed to cease to exist. What you wrote above is irrefutable proof of the "eternality" of hell and the Lake of Fire. Below is to those who deny the "eternality" of hell; that they may achieve clarity on this very vital subject: "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." (Daniel 12:2) That verse uses the same Hebrew word (Heb. "owlam" for "life" and "shame and contempt" -- so to deny the eternality of the lost is to deny the eternality of those who are raised to "life". There is no way around this one. Some may argue that the "shame and contempt" refers to the saved expressing this behavior to those who are out of existence; but this makes no sense contextually. And I know the passage where it says that we will look upon the carcasses of those who have transgressed against the LORD, and it will be an abhorring to all flesh. (Isaiah 66:24). But notice how it then says that "their" worm shall not die, nor shall their fire not be quenched. Worms (i.e., "maggots") only feed upon decaying matter; so if in fact that these bodies are annihilated and literally become NOTHING; then what are these worms feeding on? (cf. Mk. 9:44-48) Now keep in mind that "their worm" NEVER dies. When the bible speaks of spiritual death (i.e., "the second death") -- it refers to a state of "spiritual ruin (e.g., "perish, destroy"; Grk. "apollumi") -- not annihilation. If I told you that I crashed my car and now it is destroyed, does this mean that my car ceases to exist? Obviously not! It is in a state or condition of ruin. "These will pay the penalty of everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power." (2 Thessalonians 1:9) It's quite clear that this punishment is Eternal, and there's no way around it. Even IF you were to argue that the word "destruction" (Grk. "olethros") is to be interpreted as "annihilation" -- then that still would make no sense contextually. Why? If something ceases to exist, then how can this thing be "FROM" the PRESENCE" of anything? Let alone, God? The lost are CLEARLY in a place "from" God's PRESENCE. You cannot be "from" or "away" from anything if you cease to exist -- or are annihilated. The topic of hell is rarely mentioned in churches these days, and it should be. Jesus warned His listeners about the dangers of hell and the Lake of Fire more than He mentioned Heaven; and yes, He was trying to "scare the hell" out of them; and also because He cared for the state of the lost (cf. Matt. 10:28; Lk. 19:10; 1 Tim. 2:4; 2 Pet. 3:9; etc.). Hope this helps! In Christ, *Pumpkin* 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis1209 Posted November 7, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 347 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,464 Content Per Day: 2.70 Reputation: 5,375 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted November 7, 2018 12 minutes ago, *Pumpkin* said: What you wrote above is irrefutable proof of the "eternality" of hell and the Lake of Fire. Below is to those who deny the "eternality" of hell; that they may achieve clarity on this very vital subject: "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." (Daniel 12:2) That verse uses the same Hebrew word (Heb. "owlam" for "life" and "shame and contempt" -- so to deny the eternality of the lost is to deny the eternality of those who are raised to "life". There is no way around this one. Some may argue that the "shame and contempt" refers to the saved expressing this behavior to those who are out of existence; but this makes no sense contextually. And I know the passage where it says that we will look upon the carcasses of those who have transgressed against the LORD, and it will be an abhorring to all flesh. (Isaiah 66:24). But notice how it then says that "their" worm shall not die, nor shall their fire not be quenched. Worms (i.e., "maggots") only feed upon decaying matter; so if in fact that these bodies are annihilated and literally become NOTHING; then what are these worms feeding on? (cf. Mk. 9:44-48) Now keep in mind that "their worm" NEVER dies. When the bible speaks of spiritual death (i.e., "the second death") -- it refers to a state of "spiritual ruin (e.g., "perish, destroy"; Grk. "apollumi") -- not annihilation. If I told you that I crashed my car and now it is destroyed, does this mean that my car ceases to exist? Obviously not! It is in a state or condition of ruin. "These will pay the penalty of everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power." (2 Thessalonians 1:9) It's quite clear that this punishment is Eternal, and there's no way around it. Even IF you were to argue that the word "destruction" (Grk. "olethros") is to be interpreted as "annihilation" -- then that still would make no sense contextually. Why? If something ceases to exist, then how can this thing be "FROM" the PRESENCE" of anything? Let alone, God? The lost are CLEARLY in a place "from" God's PRESENCE. You cannot be "from" or "away" from anything if you cease to exist -- or are annihilated. The topic of hell is rarely mentioned in churches these days, and it should be. Jesus warned His listeners about the dangers of hell and the Lake of Fire more than He mentioned Heaven; and yes, He was trying to "scare the hell" out of them; and also because He cared for the state of the lost (cf. Matt. 10:28; Lk. 19:10; 1 Tim. 2:4; 2 Pet. 3:9; etc.). Hope this helps! In Christ, *Pumpkin* Exceptionally well said and explained, thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2thelight Posted November 7, 2018 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,139 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 796 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted November 7, 2018 9 hours ago, HAZARD said: Rev. 20: 10, And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night FOR EVER AND EVER. Again nobody will be tortured forever,they will cease to be forever and ever Ezekiel makes it plain and simple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2thelight Posted November 7, 2018 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,139 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 796 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted November 7, 2018 6 hours ago, Dennis1209 said: Evidently some posts have been removed from this thread? Anyway, for my own information, how do some come up with the idea of annihilation from scripture? The Greek and Hebrew words like 'destruction" etc. don't even hint at that idea, much less plain scripture language? Not trying to start a debate or argument, just trying to understand their reasoning and logic in light of what scripture tells us. One cannot die and live at the same time You get that when one thinks that the soul is automatically immortal which is not true,one must put on immortality The soul can and will die that's the 2nd death Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2thelight Posted November 7, 2018 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,139 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 796 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted November 7, 2018 6 hours ago, Dennis1209 said: Evidently some posts have been removed from this thread? Anyway, for my own information, how do some come up with the idea of annihilation from scripture? The Greek and Hebrew words like 'destruction" etc. don't even hint at that idea, much less plain scripture language? Not trying to start a debate or argument, just trying to understand their reasoning and logic in light of what scripture tells us. One cannot die and live at the same time You get that when one thinks that the soul is automatically immortal which is not true,one must put on immortality The soul can and will die that's the 2nd death Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithbuilders Posted November 7, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 235 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 166 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/20/1972 Share Posted November 7, 2018 It has come to me, that the only reason, I can see, that a Christian would not want to believe in hell, is that they had a loved one die who was not saved, and can't bare the thought of there eternal damnation. I understand, but it is possible they any person that has died with there last breath called on Jesus,(even if they only could do it in there mind) we don't truly know. Encourage yourselve with that, rather than trying to change truth to make yourself feel better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAZARD Posted November 7, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 320 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 6,830 Content Per Day: 0.84 Reputation: 3,570 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/16/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted November 7, 2018 14 hours ago, n2thelight said: Again nobody will be tortured forever,they will cease to be forever and ever Ezekiel makes it plain and simple What don't you understand when reading Revelation 20 verse 10 where it clearly states, "and shall be TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOR EVER AND EVER? Rev. 20: 10, And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night FOR EVER AND EVER. Your taking away from Gods book. Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of this book of prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithbuilders Posted November 13, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 235 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 166 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/20/1972 Share Posted November 13, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, Betha said: are you perhaps too fixated on Rev 20v10 and totally ignoring Ezek 28v19 which is also very clear ? for someone to exist in 'some form or other' can not be seen as 'to be no more'. fact is the devil and his demons will never again be active in their VILE DESTRUCTION. If you read the context of all the places in the bible where it talks about someone being "no more" that is talking about no more on the earth it is not talking about judgment, and the truth that there is an eternal Heaven, and an eternal hell! You can't take Ezek 28 out of context and ignore Rev 20. Edited November 13, 2018 by Faithbuilders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted November 13, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,158 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,444 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted November 13, 2018 On 10/26/2018 at 5:03 AM, n2thelight said: Nobody,not even satan will be tortured forever they will simply cease to exist. Ezekiel 28:18 "Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee." Ezekiel 28:19 "All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more." We prefer to let God's Word be on this subject … Rev 20:10 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. KJV If God says this here then your understanding cannot be what it is there! Precept must be upon precept and line upon line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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