What exactly will be seen during the Rapture

[iamlamad]

Just now, Adstar said:

Yes i see a lot of per-tribulation rapture believers believing that the "parable" of the virgins is about the rapture..  But it is more about those who fall away into false religions and who because of this will not be a part of Gods eternal kingdom..  They are no Christians missing out.. They are false Christians who will fall away from the truth in the end times..

It is most certainly about His coming. And since it is about a wedding or marriage, then it MUST be about His coming FOR His bride. This cannot be His coming portrayed in chapter 19, for it is after the marriage.  This is just one reason why I am pretrib. 

But back to the parable: they all had oil in their lamps. The reason five were left behind was simply because they were short on oil.  They did not have "extra" oil. Of course the Pentecostals jump on this as proof that only spirit filled believers will be raptured. After all, oil is to represent the Holy Spirit and His anointing. 

Perhaps this parable is telling us, God will require FELLOWSHIP once we are born again. some people walk to the altar, get born again, and never enter the church again. I think such people are deceiving themselves.  We keep our lamp FULL by having daily fellowship with Him.

[Adstar]

5 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

It is most certainly about His coming. And since it is about a wedding or marriage, then it MUST be about His coming FOR His bride. This cannot be His coming portrayed in chapter 19, for it is after the marriage.  This is just one reason why I am pretrib. 

But back to the parable: they all had oil in their lamps. The reason five were left behind was simply because they were short on oil.  They did not have "extra" oil. Of course the Pentecostals jump on this as proof that only spirit filled believers will be raptured. After all, oil is to represent the Holy Spirit and His anointing. 

Perhaps this parable is telling us, God will require FELLOWSHIP once we are born again. some people walk to the altar, get born again, and never enter the church again. I think such people are deceiving themselves.  We keep our lamp FULL by having daily fellowship with Him.

Yes and Jesus will be coming for His bride at his second coming... Not before..  

[ARGOSY]

6 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Sorry, but the mountains are STILL THERE at the 7th vial that ends the week.  Let's just agree that the mountains MOVE here at the 6th seal. 

Are you adding another coming? He is coming in chapter 19 WITH His bride. Are you placing the rapture at the 6th seal?

Yes I'm placing the rapture at the sixth seal, at the same time as the wedding feast and second coming of Rev 19.

The order of events if you integrate the two chapters, is we enter the pale horse stage of earth, probably referring to Islamic control. The church is told to be patient. 

Then Jesus is seen, as per Rev 6, he removes his church to the feast as per Rev 19. Later Jesus , the angels and church come back to destroy those armies attacking Jerusalem, at the judgement/winepress of Jehosaphat. 

[n2thelight]

On 11/2/2018 at 11:23 PM, iamlamad said:

Is it twisting if Jesus WAS talking to Jews about the end of THEIR age? 

For example, what is the "abomination of desolation" that Jesus spoke of a part of?  Or what period of time is it found inside of?

Matthew 24:15 "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place (whoso readeth, let him understand:)"

This reverence to Daniel the prophet, Makes the book of Daniel part of the New Testament. This reference is directed to Daniel 9:27.

The "abomination" is when Satan stands in Jerusalem, and proclaims that he is God, and the world believes it. The "desolation" is an incorrect translation into the English, which should read "desolator", and Satan is the desolator that will make the claim that he is God, the true Christ. "Desolation" is a condition, in the Hebrew manuscripts it is written, "On the wings of the desolator," this is not a condition, but a entity, a person. It is through this individual, Satan that the abomination shall come from. It is the desolator [Satan] that shall cause all but the sealed of God, to become desolate, or deceived.

Daniel 9:27; "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and the determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

The Holy place is the place that the temple sits, and this is the subject for the very first, when the buildings of the temple were observed by the disciples, and the question of what it would be like at His second advent. This is where the desolation [Satan, the Antichrist] shall sit on mount Zion, making his abominations, or statements that he is the Christ.

The world will be deceived when Satan claims himself to be Christ, for he does have supernatural powers, and he will use them to to draw the peoples of the world to come to peace. He will say, I am Jesus whom ye have been waiting for, and I have come to bring peace to the world, and the world will be brought to peace and prosperity by Satan, the Antichrist. I feel that this time of world peace will come in a matter of months, or a few years. It will come though.

How did Jesus tell us His coming would be at the second advent? Revelation 19:15, 19 tell us how Jesus will come back to earth, at His second coming:

Revelation 19:15; "And out of His mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it He should smite the nations: and He shall rule them with a rod of iron: and He treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God."

Jesus will come with a sharp sword to smite the nations of the earth. He will subdue them like grapes in the winepress, not some sweet mushy talk of peace. Jesus shall rule over them with a rod of Iron, because at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, is the start of the Millennium age. That thousand year age kingdom of Christ will be a time of learning and discipline, there will be no flesh on earth, for all will be changed to their incorruptible bodies, and will be of full sound mind, and capable of learning and understand what is being taught them.

"(Whoso readeth, let him understand:)" This is the statement that has the same meaning as," whosoever heareth, let him understand".

[n2thelight]

On 11/2/2018 at 11:23 PM, iamlamad said:

Is it twisting if Jesus WAS talking to Jews about the end of THEIR age? 

For example, what is the "abomination of desolation" that Jesus spoke of a part of?  Or what period of time is it found inside of?

He was talking to us to whom the end would come,where do you get He was talking to just the Jew's?

I Corinthians 10:11 "Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come."

"Ensamples" in the manuscripts is the Greek word "tupos", number 5179 in the Strong's Greek dictionary. "a sample, or type; i.e. a model for imitation, a fashion, for manner, or form." So Paul is telling us that those things that we read about in the Old Testament, of the events of the prophets of old are examples of what we should be looking for in our day. This is written to alert all people to be aware of how it shall be before Christ returns. What was written in the Exodus, or in Amos is written as examples for our admonition or warning. All of the Scriptures is given as a warning to those who are living in the times of the ends of this world age of the flesh. We will see the end of the flesh age come to a close, and there are many things that will come to pass right before our eyes that were written about in detail way back in the Old Testament time, and Paul is telling you and I to wake up to those warnings.

Each of the events that took place, the opening of the Red sea, the building of the false religious forms, and so on. God is telling us "look little children that is what is going to happen to you at the close of this earth age". We are living in that age, and these things are happening now. Can you learn by this? It is so simple. God did not leave us helpless nor hopeless in these end times, and that is why we must become skilled in all of His Word. It is all an example of what is going to befall us in our generation.

 

[n2thelight]

So let me ask a question,do rapturist have to read the Book of Revelation since according to that doctrine(rapture),you all not gonna be here?

[iamlamad]

8 hours ago, n2thelight said:

He was talking to us to whom the end would come,where do you get He was talking to just the Jew's?

I Corinthians 10:11 "Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come."

"Ensamples" in the manuscripts is the Greek word "tupos", number 5179 in the Strong's Greek dictionary. "a sample, or type; i.e. a model for imitation, a fashion, for manner, or form." So Paul is telling us that those things that we read about in the Old Testament, of the events of the prophets of old are examples of what we should be looking for in our day. This is written to alert all people to be aware of how it shall be before Christ returns. What was written in the Exodus, or in Amos is written as examples for our admonition or warning. All of the Scriptures is given as a warning to those who are living in the times of the ends of this world age of the flesh. We will see the end of the flesh age come to a close, and there are many things that will come to pass right before our eyes that were written about in detail way back in the Old Testament time, and Paul is telling you and I to wake up to those warnings.

Each of the events that took place, the opening of the Red sea, the building of the false religious forms, and so on. God is telling us "look little children that is what is going to happen to you at the close of this earth age". We are living in that age, and these things are happening now. Can you learn by this? It is so simple. God did not leave us helpless nor hopeless in these end times, and that is why we must become skilled in all of His Word. It is all an example of what is going to befall us in our generation.

 

That is a theory; it is just not truth. Daniel wrote that the 70 weeks was for HIS PEOPLE.  Granted, Jesus died for all, but we are talking about the Olivet Discourse, where Jesus was talking to Jewish men about the end of their age. Believe it for it is truth: the Bride of Christ will not be here to see the abomination.  The Bride will be in heaven.

[iamlamad]

8 hours ago, n2thelight said:

So let me ask a question,do rapturist have to read the Book of Revelation since according to that doctrine(rapture),you all not gonna be here?

No one has to read - but we get the privilege of reading - and we get a blessing when we do.  The Gentile church is mentioned: we will be a part of the armies that follow Jesus on white horses. And of course chapters 21 and 22 is for all who love Jesus, Jew and Gentile alike.

[iamlamad]

8 hours ago, n2thelight said:

Matthew 24:15 "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place (whoso readeth, let him understand:)"

This reverence to Daniel the prophet, Makes the book of Daniel part of the New Testament. This reference is directed to Daniel 9:27.

The "abomination" is when Satan stands in Jerusalem, and proclaims that he is God, and the world believes it. The "desolation" is an incorrect translation into the English, which should read "desolator", and Satan is the desolator that will make the claim that he is God, the true Christ. "Desolation" is a condition, in the Hebrew manuscripts it is written, "On the wings of the desolator," this is not a condition, but a entity, a person. It is through this individual, Satan that the abomination shall come from. It is the desolator [Satan] that shall cause all but the sealed of God, to become desolate, or deceived.

Daniel 9:27; "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and the determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

The Holy place is the place that the temple sits, and this is the subject for the very first, when the buildings of the temple were observed by the disciples, and the question of what it would be like at His second advent. This is where the desolation [Satan, the Antichrist] shall sit on mount Zion, making his abominations, or statements that he is the Christ.

The world will be deceived when Satan claims himself to be Christ, for he does have supernatural powers, and he will use them to to draw the peoples of the world to come to peace. He will say, I am Jesus whom ye have been waiting for, and I have come to bring peace to the world, and the world will be brought to peace and prosperity by Satan, the Antichrist. I feel that this time of world peace will come in a matter of months, or a few years. It will come though.

How did Jesus tell us His coming would be at the second advent? Revelation 19:15, 19 tell us how Jesus will come back to earth, at His second coming:

Revelation 19:15; "And out of His mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it He should smite the nations: and He shall rule them with a rod of iron: and He treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God."

Jesus will come with a sharp sword to smite the nations of the earth. He will subdue them like grapes in the winepress, not some sweet mushy talk of peace. Jesus shall rule over them with a rod of Iron, because at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, is the start of the Millennium age. That thousand year age kingdom of Christ will be a time of learning and discipline, there will be no flesh on earth, for all will be changed to their incorruptible bodies, and will be of full sound mind, and capable of learning and understand what is being taught them.

"(Whoso readeth, let him understand:)" This is the statement that has the same meaning as," whosoever heareth, let him understand".

I normally don't answer your posts. I consider your theories so far from the "norm" that I just shake my head in wonder.

Do you just not believe Paul when he tells us it will be the MAN of sin that enters the temple and declares he is God? You have been told this over and over - proven with scripture, yet you continue on with nonsense rather that scripture correctly understood.  Satan is not a man, and the man of sin is not Satan. The man of sin is born of a woman, but Satan is a created being. Never the twain shall meet.  this is PROVEN by scripture: the Beast (man of sin before being possessed by Satan) and False Prophet are cast into the lake if fire first, but a thousand years later, Satan is cast in. The cannot be one and the same. 

[iamlamad]

10 hours ago, ARGOSY said:

Yes I'm placing the rapture at the sixth seal, at the same time as the wedding feast and second coming of Rev 19.

The order of events if you integrate the two chapters, is we enter the pale horse stage of earth, probably referring to Islamic control. The church is told to be patient. 

Then Jesus is seen, as per Rev 6, he removes his church to the feast as per Rev 19. Later Jesus , the angels and church come back to destroy those armies attacking Jerusalem, at the judgement/winepress of Jehosaphat. 

This is very simple: you are rearranging Revelation and your theory will be proven wrong. 

For the readers: the truth is, seal 6 will take place before the 70th week beings, and the events of Rev. 19 will occur after the 70th week has finished.

ANY theory that must rearrange Revelation will be found in error. 

Argosy: I have a suggestion: throw all your theories into the trash and start over. This time BELIEVE John: he tells us truth There is NO NEED to rearrange Revelation.  It is in God given order and the order is correct. TIME takes place in Revelation and the movement of time.  For example, the 70th week will be 7 long years of judgment, divided in half by the abomination.  The first 1260 days will be trumpets 1-6. The second 1260 days will be the days of GT and the vials of God poured out to shorten those days. 

The truth is, Revelation fits perfectly (AS WRITTEN - not rearranged) with Jesus discourse in the gospels. Why then would ANYONE imagine a need to rearrange?