I asked Jesus what must i do to go into heaven

[Willa]

On 10/14/2018 at 4:39 PM, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

The question is ; 

I asked Jesus what I must do to go into Heaven. 

I am not sure that anyone of the Jews or not Jews or even his disciples asked Jesus -during his earthly journey-this direct question, and that must makes us wonder as to why? 

The rich young ruler asked..... “ Good teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?” That was pretty direct.I think we all know the rest of the story.

The rich young ruler and others to whom Jesus spoke were still under the Hebrew law.  Christ had not yet died for their sins.  We are now born again by grace through faith.  Our salvation is a gift of God, not of works.  Rom 6:23  AMP For the wages which sin pays is death, but the [bountiful] free gift of God is eternal life through (in union with) Jesus Christ our Lord. 

I was always taught it is not a matter of faith or works, but it is faith that works.  When we are born again and attached to the Vine, we cannot help but bear fruit.  It is Christ in us Who produces fruit through us.  True, we are become more fruitful and Christlike as we mature.  We need to be in the Word continually and in constant communion with Him.  This is abiding in Him.  

When I was new to walking with God He was revealing new truths in Scripture on a regular basis.  But there came periods that were "dry".  It was then that God was showing me that I needed to apply that which I already knew to do.  

My testimony is almost identical to Omega's on page 1.  He expressed it so much better than I can.  But I will add that God never tells us anything that is contrary to Scripture.   

Simply put, we are to love God and love others, and to rely on Jesus.

1Jn 3:23  ESV And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.  1Jn 4:10 AMP  In this is love: not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation (the atoning sacrifice) for our sins.  1Jn 4:11  Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.  1Jn 4:12  AMP No man has at any time [yet] seen God. But if we love one another, God abides (lives and remains) in us and His love (that love which is essentially His) is brought to completion (to its full maturity, runs its full course, is perfected) in us!

[Guest shiloh357]

10 hours ago, Badjao33 said:

Actually it was because "God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them"  due to their obedience. 

The point is that the despite what you tried to imply, the disciples were not taught that they had to impoverish themselves and they were not teaching the early Christians that they had to impoverish themselves and give up all of their worldly possessions to follow Jesus.

10 hours ago, Badjao33 said:

Actually giving up everything, including possessions, was what God required of Israel before the resurrected Jesus revealed the gospel of grace to Paul. The teachings of Jesus and the original disciples to the Jews required works for salvation including baptism, but that is no longer the case for us today. Two different messages, two different audiences. 

No, that was not required of Israel at any time.  No where is that taught in Scripture.   This is just more of your two-gospel heresy and none of us are having any part of that. 

Salvation in the Old Testament and in the New Testament was always by grace through faith apart from works. That is the only biblical and Christian way to look at it.  If you see it differently, you're wrong, period.

[Guest shiloh357]

14 hours ago, PinkBelt said:

Re-stating that Jesus was testing him over and over does not address the fact that you are claiming Jesus gave incorrect information.

No, that is how you are spinning what I said.  The Pharisees taught the people that the law of Moses was the path to eternal life, that anyone wanting eternal life had to keep the law of Moses.    This man was  product of that theological worldview.     Jesus used that worldview to show the man that even though he had kept the law of Moses, he lacked something.   Jesus knew his heart and thus knew that the man was a prisoner to His wealth.  Jesus' message consistently throughout His ministry was one losing to win, of counting the cost, of being willing to forsake everything and everyone if need be, to be His disciple.   Jesus wants our undiluted allegiance  and total commitment to Him and this is the test he applied to this man to expose his true need.  Jesus revealed in that moment that the man was not sincere in his inquiry for eternal life.

You are trying to make Jesus' response a theological teaching and it wasn't.   This man came to Jesus in pride and false flattery and presumed that Jesus would heap praise upon him and tell him that he had the favor of God, which is how they viewed the wealthy in that particular culture.   Jesus turned the tables on him and exposed the truth about him and revealed that this man was to much of a prisoner to worldly wealth and worldly acclaim and the prestige he enjoyed, in order to be follower of Jesus.    

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I go by what the bible says, not what man wants it to mean. The bible, and Jesus in particular, are unambiguous about the importance of our works here on earth. "Faith alone" is not supported by anything Jesus taught and I think it is a heresy. Nothing would make Satan happier then "Christians" sitting on their rear ends ignoring the great mission. While faith in the Lord is absolutely critical, Jesus also spoke repeatedly about how your words, deeds and actions were weighed heavily on the day of judgement.

Jesus never at any time taught salvation by works. Jesus never said that works play into how salvation is received.   Salvation by grace through faith doesn't mean that Christians sit around and do nothing.    Works are the fruit of salvation, not the means by which salvation is procured.   

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The bible says faith without works is dead:

 

James 2:14-26

Faith Without Works Is Dead

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

 

Anyone who reads this, (and there are more like it), and come away with the idea that faith alone is all God requires then they are flat out perverting God's word and the explicit teachings of our lord. I have to wonder if their own lack of charity and compassion are factors in their motivation to cling to their false belief in "faith alone". 

 

 James isn't addressing salvation.  The book of James and James chapter two in particular, is not a treatise on salvation.   James is addressing the operative nature of faith.    James' point is that our works demonstrate the veracity of our profession to be followers of Jesus.  If we are followers of Jesus, our works will reveal that to be true or not.   

James uses two biblical characters to illustrate that point:  Abraham and Rahab.   Abraham was not saved by works when he offered Isaac on the altar.   Abraham was saved before decades before Isaac was born when it says that Abraham believed God and it was counted to him (imputed) as righteousness (Rom. 4:3).   In Rom. 4, Paul makes the argument that we are justified by faith apart from works just like Abraham.   

James is not talking about when Abraham was justified by faith alone.   James is speaking to the fact that Abraham's faith was tested by God when God told him to sacrifice Isaac. Abraham was "justified" in the sense of affirmed by what He had done.   Abraham proved his faith was authentic and true when it was accompanied by corresponding action.   Abraham was going to kill Isaac assuming that God would raise him from the dead. 

James also uses Rahab the harlot who proved her faith by aiding the Israelite spies who were on a reconnaissance mission inside Jericho.  Her faith was proven authentic when it was accompanied by corresponding action.   

The overarching argument that James is making has to do with our works justifying us as believers in terms of affirming our profession of faith.   We can talk all day long, but it is our works that prove if our faith is real or not. 

James is not using the word "justified" in the same way that Paul uses it in Rom. 3:28: "For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law." Paul is talking about our spiritual standing before God.   James is using the word "justified" in a different sense.  He is simply stating that works justify us in what we say about Jesus and they prove that our faith in genuine. In that sense, "justification"   or "justified" is being used in the sense of "affirm." James is talking about us being justified in the sight of men, whereas Paul was talking about our spiritual justification in the sight of God.

The Bible teaches that we are saved by grace through faith alone and not by works of any kind. 

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.  (Eph 2:8-9)
For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. (Rom 4:2)

But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, (Tit 3:4-5)

 

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Revelation 3:15-17

15 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16 So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17 You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked.

 

Here is a blatant statement that Jesus will reject "Christians" who do not follow through in thought and deed. 

 

This isn't saying that Jesus rejected them.   You need to read what follows:

I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see. Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent. Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me. 
(Rev 3:18-20)

Jesus hadn't rejected them at all.  He was disciplining and rebuking his people and calling on them to repent.   He never claimed to reject them; quite opposite really.  

Sorry, but there is simply NOTHING in the Bible that teaches salvation by works.    If you are trusting in good works, you will disappointed at the throne:

Here is what happened when some people try to appeal to their works at the throne of Judgement:

On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ (Mat 7:22-23)

Those who think they are saved by works and conduct their lives on that premise, will be the ones rejected at the throne.  
 

 

 

 

[Guest shiloh357]

11 hours ago, Badjao33 said:

So those who were listening to Jesus should have ignored what He said?

Now large crowds were going along with Him; and He turned and said to them, “If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple. Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple. For which one of you, when he wants to build a tower, does not first sit down and calculate the cost to see if he has enough to complete it? Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who observe it begin to ridicule him, saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish.’ Or what king, when he sets out to meet another king in battle, will not first sit down and consider whether he is strong enough with ten thousand men to encounter the one coming against him with twenty thousand? Or else, while the other is still far away, he sends a delegation and asks for terms of peace. So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions.  (Luke 14:25-35)

 

If you take this at face value, if a person gets saved and is taught that in order to follow Jesus, they must give up all worldly possessions, you run into all kinds of problems.   For example, if you give up ALL of your worldly possessions, then how do you feed your children?  How do you clothe them?   How does a man provide for His wife?    Do they live out in the field under a tree instead of a house?  How do you drive your children or spouse to doctor appointments or to the hospital?  I mean to take this at face value, that we are supposed to give up all of our possessions simply doesn't work now, nor would it have worked in NT times.  

If we take Jesus' assertion to give up all worldly possessions at face value, do we apply the mode of interpretation across the board in the above passage?   Do we actually "hate" our parents?   Do we actually "hate" our children, and siblings and ourselves???    Of course not.  Yet this is the same reckless and irresponsible approach to interpreting this passage to make poverty a condition for following Jesus.    Peter had a house and a wife.  Was Peter supposed to actually "hate" his wife and sell their house and leave her homeless while he was out preaching?  Your approach to this passage is just ridiculous.  No sensible person is going to buy what you're peddling.

Jesus is talking about being willing to count the cost, that at times we have to choose God over our families and that we have to love God more than we love what we have and those whom we love here on earth.  It is about putting God first and in the end, if need be, giving up all for following Him.  

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If you were in that crowd, wouldn't those instructions have been perfectly clear? Don't you believe Peter would have been teaching the same thing? 

And yet no one in the early church in the book of Acts was told they had to give up all of their worldly possessions. 

[Guest shiloh357]

11 hours ago, Badjao33 said:

I believe it was because the believers at that time were taught that they had to give up all of their possessions and he was not willing to part with all of the money he received from selling the land.

No, they were not told to give up all they had.   And Peter's remarks in his rebuke of Ananias proves it. According to Peter,  The land was Ananias'  to sell, it was in his power to do what he wanted with it, and it was in his power to give as much of the proceeds from the sale as he wanted.   Ananias was free to only give half of the proceeds.   What happened was that he and his wife attempted to lie and claim that they had give ALL of the proceeds when they had not.   It was not a problem if they simply said, "We sold a piece of property and we want to give half of it to the Lord's work."  God would have accepted that and they would have been fine.  But it was lying to the Holy Spirit, and claiming that they gave 100% of sale amount to God, that got them in trouble. 

So that clearly shows that they were under no compulsion from Peter or any of the disciples to give EVERYTHING they had.  They were free to give as much or as little as they wanted. 

[Guest shiloh357]

3 minutes ago, Badjao33 said:

Now large crowds were going along with Him; and He turned and said to them, “If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple. Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple. For which one of you, when he wants to build a tower, does not first sit down and calculate the cost to see if he has enough to complete it? Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who observe it begin to ridicule him, saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish.’ Or what king, when he sets out to meet another king in battle, will not first sit down and consider whether he is strong enough with ten thousand men to encounter the one coming against him with twenty thousand? Or else, while the other is still far away, he sends a delegation and asks for terms of peace. So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions.  (Luke 14:25-35)

Don't you think his disciples would teach the same since they were commanded to teach everything that He taught them?

And yet we have no evidence that the disciples taught early Christians that they had to give up all of their possessions.   "

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John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins." (Mark 1:4)

If Jesus taught Peter, he must not have been told that baptism was no longer required for forgiveness of sins. . 

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts :2:38)

Baptism is a work is it not?

 

No, baptism is not a work.   In the Bible, from the standpoint of salvation, a "work" is act that is meritorious in nature. It is something done in attempt to curry favor with God, i.e., "good works."      Baptism is not required for salvation and Peter never said it was.  You are misreading Acts 2:38.    Salvation in the OT and in the NT has only ever been by grace through faith and never based on works, nor was baptism a requirement for salvation. 

The law was never meant to be kept for salvation in the OT or the NT.   Baptism was never for salvation.  And people were saved during the earthly ministry of Jesus without being baptized. 

 

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The Bible even gives these gospels different titles.  

The gospel of the kingdom (Matthew 9:35)

The gospel of the grace of God (Acts 20:24) 

 

No, it's the same Gospel, but two different aspects.   It's all the same message, though. It's just two ways of saying the same thing.  

 

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We know that Jesus was only sent to Israel.

“I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” (Matthew 15:24)

And we know he was preaching the gospel of the kingdom. 

"And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people." (Matthew 9:35)

"Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God," (Mark 1:14)

 

Israel was the starting point from which Jesus began preaching the Gospel.  Jesus mission at that time was local to Israel.  But the Bible doesnt' teach that there was a Gospel to Israel and a Gospel to every one else.

Otherwise, we would still need to preach a Gospel to the Jewish people that is different than the Gospel to the Gentiles and that is simply untenable. 

 

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The gospel of the kingdom was only intended for Israel and was only preached to the Jews. Even at Pentecost, all of those who were saved were Jews. "And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven" (Acts 2:5)

Peter even address those in attendance of his sermons as those of the house of Israel (Jews).

 “Men of Israel, listen to these words: (Acts 2:22)

Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ—this Jesus whom you crucified.” (Acts 2:36)

Peter still preached baptism for forgiveness of sins. (A work). 

 "... they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you (The people of Israel), and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call." (Acts 2:37-39)

 

Nothing in the Bible say that the Gospel of Kingdom was just for Israel.   That is a value that YOU are assigning to the text.   Nothing in the Bible actually says such a thing.  You are making that up out of whole cloth.   And no, baptism is not a work (you don't know what you're talking about).  

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The Jewish believers were devoted to the law because this is what Jesus was teaching. 

“Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.” (Matthew 19:17)

For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:18)

But the most important thing to come out of the debate at the Council of Jerusalem is that Paul's gospel (The gospel of Grace) is the one that saves by faith alone. 

...solemnly testifying to both Jews and Greeks of repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. (Acts 20:21)

Paul taught that the law and its required works had been done away with at the cross. 

When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. (Colossians 2:13-14)

 

That is why no one should trust what you teach.   So Jesus taught salvation by works, but then God sent Paul to teach salvation by faith apart from works, two contradictory messages.   They are not simply different, but it puts Jesus and Paul on opposite sides, in contradiction with each other.    The Jews were taught salvation by works until Paul comes on the scene and suddenly, the plan of salvation is totally changed to salvation by grace through faith? Seriously? 

So God has two different plans of salvation and even though Jesus had already been raised from the dead and grace was in full force, God still told Peter to preach salvation by works to the Jews, even though God intended salvation apart from works?

Yeah, no competent, clear thinking Christian is going to buy into that clap trap.   You're out in left field.  

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Jesus came to Israel to confirm the promises given to the fathers. 

For I say that Christ has become a servant to the circumcision on behalf of the truth of God to confirm the promises given to the fathers, (Romans 15:8)

Paul came as a minister of Jesus Christ and to provide testamony to His life and work at the cross. 

Because of the grace that was given me from God, to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles, (Romans 15:15-16)

This is also the purpose of the four gospels.

Therefore many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but These have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name. (John 20:30-31)

 

No, that was not the purpose of the four gospels. You don't have a clue about any of this.    The Gospel of John is actually written with a Gentile audience in view. 

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Paul's message and purpose was unique from that of Jesus and the original disciples. 

No, it wasn't.  YOU are trying to spin it that way.   You have tried to make what Jesus and Paul preach to appear contradictory and you have tried to portray a different plan of salvation for the Jews than for the Gentiles.   That is heresy, pure and simple.

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The gospel of Grace was given exclusively to Paul.

No, it was not. 

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The gospel of Grace was not known before it was revealed to Paul.

That is also not true.   I can lead a person to salvation  by grace through faith from the Old Testament just as easily as I can from the New Testament.  Salvation was the same in the OT as it is the NT.   

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While it's true that the gospel always required faith alone to be saved, this was not known, nor was it taught prior to Paul. There were clearly two different gospels.

One being the gospel of the kingdom that taught Jesus is the son of God and was the promised messiah to the Jews which still taught baptism for the forgiveness of sins along with keeping the law. And the other being the gospel of grace which taught that Jesus is the son of God who died and was raised from the dead for the sin of the world. The gospel we share today and the one that was revealed to Paul requires faith plus nothing to inherit salvation. 

No, that would mean two different plans of salvation, one for the Jews and then one that pops up later for everyone else. And the Bible doesn't indicate that Jesus preached something different than Paul.  That is a distinction that you have manufactured.  The Bible doesn't delineate two different Gospels and what's different about them.   You are cherry picking verses that don't actually say what you're saying and you are trying to impose a meaning on them that they don't possess.   It would mean that those who were "saved" under Jesus ministry and the "gospel of the Kingdom"  would no longer be saved once Paul started preaching the Gospel of grace.  If they were saved 30 years prior under Jesus' ministry, they would have to get "re-saved"  because the old "Gospel" that Jesus preached was "done away with."  That is just garbage.  No competent Bible teacher would assert such nonsense.

For example, Paul calling the Gospel "my gospel"  doesn't mean that he is distinguishing it from what Jesus preached, or that it was a message that he alone was given to preach.   YOU divine that meaning incorrectly from the text and spin it that way.   Paul doesn't say anything like that.    The Bible doesn't say anything to effect of, "You have heard the Gospel of Kingdom, but now there is a "new Gospel"  called "The Gospel of grace."   Nothing like that is in the Bible.    

You are reading into the Scriptures something that is simply not there if we apply sound hermeneutics and read the Bible properly. 

 

[Guest shiloh357]

4 minutes ago, Badjao33 said:

They weren't impoverished because they shared everything they had.
 

They shared what they had with those fellow believers who were poor.  They were not living in a commune out of the same pool. 

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"none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions."  (Luke 14:25-35) If you were in the crowd hearing Jesus say this, what would you think you need to do to be His disciple?

I have already explained that in a previous post.

 

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Do you consider baptism to be a work?

No. 

 

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Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: (Matthew 28:19)

Or keeping the commandments?

 If you want to enter life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:17)

 

That was not a "teaching" on salvation.

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Then why did the disciples do this? They left their boats, careers and even their families to follow Jesus.

In some cases, they did.  Peter had a wife.  Do you think Peter abandoned her for the ministry.   What you may not understand, is that many of them were itinerate, as they still had family responsibilities.   Jesus was not calling anyone to abandon their families for his calling.   He would never call anyone to do that, in the first place.   They did not teach the early believers to do that either. 

 

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Under the gospel of Grace however, we have to work and provide for ourselves, so the teachings of Jesus about giving up everything to follow Him no longer apply.  

It didn't apply to the Jewish believers the way you are spinning it either.    

 

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Then why were the believers in Acts selling everything? 

They were selling their goods and providing for the needs of those among them who were poor.   It doesn't say they sold everything they had.   It says there was not a needy one among them.    So it would be impossible to make the case that they impoverished themselves by giving away all that they had to the poor.  If that were the case, the givers were now poor, and the needy were enriched.   All that accomplished was shifting the poverty from one group  to the other.   Rather, it means that they sold or gave of their own possessions to help others.   They didn't sell ALL they had.  That would be reckless, irresponsible and foolish.

[enoob57]

Mistaken reality of this world, that passes away along with the works therein, yet people see it as substance for eternal things the error is obvious... works here are merely the manipulation of things God is not keeping!!! Thus those who have been s/Spiritually regenerated unto new life see only the things of now as of no value to eternal matters of the heart... those who cannot loose themselves from 1st creation realities and set their heart upon the place of no sin have need to examine themselves as to why not! Faith needs to be defined in their hearts to reality of what God has designed it to do... 

Heb 11:1-6

11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
KJV
It is just like the rich young ruler: he would not let go of the place or things he had set all value upon to accept the faith God offered him in Jesus of a place He 'IS' taking us all- a place of no sin... "He is no fool to give up what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot loose" Jim Elliot... where we wait in the excellence of His Word for the things we cannot do for ourselves called faith! 

[Guest 1sheep]

17 minutes ago, Davida said:

The Bible tells us to  reject false teachers, and false representations of Jesus teachings. I reject the above post...or lectures that are unbiblical versions of Christianity.

Amen. Christ tells us to judge righteously. Id say that has been done. We have what every single person says here on record to refer to. I like that because sometimes there is much double talk! There is no hiding in these halls. Ha! 

Its no surprise that the errors are numerous and devastating to the false doctrines bearers . 

[Guest shiloh357]

2 hours ago, Badjao33 said:

Why isn't the Church doing this today? Why are most believers around the world living in poverty? 

The Church IS doing this today.   But you have to have keep in mind that what is being described is in Acts refers only to the Church in Jerusalem and is not addressing believers that were saved and living in other countries at the time.  There were believers from 16 nations who got saved at Pentecost.  So there were likely poor believers in other countries around the world that were living in poverty and the church at Jerusalem was only focusing on themselves.

And it is also worth noting that this was done initially.  The Bible doesn't say it was something that was done in perpetuity in the early church, nor was it expected to be the norm for the Church for all time.  It is simply a historical account of what happened at a given point in history. 

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But you are looking at it from the perspective of a person living in 2018 who already knows the outcome. 

No, I am not.  I am looking it from the perspective of someone who understands how to apply proper hermeneutic principles.   A skill you don't possess, evidently.

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By immerse I mean when we read the book of John for example, we need to read and understand the words of Jesus as a Jew living around 30 AD with no knowledge of what's going to happen the next day, much less in the years to come. We can't read it from the point of view of a Christian living in 2018. 

That has nothing to do with the passage out of Luke.   I raised some issues about the face-value approach you took with that passage.   The approach you were employing is NOT the product of reading it like a Jew living 30 AD.   You were applying a very sloppy interpretation meant to make it appear that Jesus meant that getting rid of all personal possessions was a condition for following Him and that was not the case given that if we took the entire passage from Luke that you were citing and applied your face-value approach to the text, we would have a very convoluted and wicked interpretation regarding how we are to relate to our parents and other loved ones.   The fact is that the passage you cited as about being willing to count the cost and about being willing to give up all to follow Jesus if that  time comes.   Jesus was not saying, "before you can follow me, you must give up all of your earthly possessions and hate your family."  

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When Jesus told the crowd that they must give up everything to follow Him including their possessions, we need to imagine...

I am sorry, but you are not in position to instruct me or anyone else.   I am not going to listen to any theological instruction from you, as I need no instruction from you.   Don't waste your time on long posts presuming to instruct me.   You do not teach me, anything.

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Yes it was, but John the Baptist didn't know this, Peter didn't know this, nor did any of the original disciples.

You don't have a clue as to what they did or did not know.  

 

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It's because of this that they didn't teach that salvation was by faith alone.

Wrong.  There is NOTHING in the Bible promoting salvation by works.

 

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They were all Jews, they lived under and practiced the Law, and in addition to having to believe that Jesus was the Messiah, they also believed that they had to be baptized. That's a gospel of works.  

Baptism isn't  a "work"(at least people who have a basic grasp on theology know that to be the case).   There is nothing from John the Baptist or anyone about salvation through works.

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So that wouldn't that mean they couldn't be a true follower of Christ since He clearly said "none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions?"  (Luke 14:25-35)

The problem is, again, your face-value approach and incorrect interpretation of the passage as a whole. 

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they began selling their property and possessions and were sharing them with all (Acts 2:45)

not one of them claimed that anything belonging to him was his own (Acts 4:34)

 all who were owners of land or houses would sell them and bring the proceeds of the sales and lay them at the apostles’ feet, and they would be distributed to each as any had need. (Acts 4:34-35)

From those verses above, it sounds to me as if the early believers took the words of Jesus literally. 

 go and sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” (Mark 10:21)

 

   Mark 10:21 was spoken to the rich young ruler, not taught to the disciples.  

None of that says they impoverished themselves, and gave away or sold ALL that they had.   That poses some very serious and practical problems.  They had to live and work and raise families and they had all kinds of responsibilities and that requires things like a home and tools and possessions and food and clothes and other things.   They could not simply sell all that they had AND still be responsible parents and responsible citizens and pay taxes.  You simply cannot give up all of your earthly possessions and function responsibly in the world.   

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Not if they believe and put their faith in Jesus Christ. 

Yeah, that's not faith; its presumption.   Recklessness and irresponsible behavior cannot be justified on the grounds of faith.   It is just as irresponsible to sit around waiting for God to cause people to just send you checks in the mail instead of getting out and getting a job and living responsibly.   God blesses responsible, sober, godly behavior that places faith in Jesus.   He does not bless a presumptive attitude that I can, in faith, live recklessly and throw caution out the window due to a really sloppy interpretation of Scripture.