Would being Catholic keep one from being saved?

[alchristfollower]

2 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Setting us apart is called s-a-n-c-t-i-f-i-c-a-t-i-o-n. I was speaking of justifiacation where the righteousness that we are robed with is far Holier than that 'almost perfect obedience' you think you have attained in this life. Your perfect obedience is no way close to perfection when compared to His.

There is nothing set apart about you if you are sinning like everyone else, even if you do believe. But now, if you are freed from your sinful nature, by truly receiving the airflow of God, then you are truly set apart from everyone else. Do you even understand what "set-apart" means? The Torah declares, "so you can distinguish between the set-apart and the ordinary". If you are ordinarily sinning like everyone else, you are not set-apart. Once you are truly set apart by the airflow of God by having the sinful nature cut away, then you are made righteous, and are subsequently perfected and caused to never sin again. This is the "perfect obedience" of God that I speak of, which I do not claim to have yet, but I am working towards it, because it happens only when you have lowered yourself by selling your possessions, completely obey Torah, and begin to do good works... all through belief in the Messiah. You have fooled yourself if you think mere belief will save you.

[alchristfollower]

2 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Yes I know what 'set apart' means. 

Do you even know what the Gospel is and the consequences of proclaiming another gospel?

Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
(1Co 15:1-4)
 

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
(Gal 1:8-9)
 

Your 'works' salvation will one day testify against you unless you repent.

Repentance means stop doing evil. If you think repentance simply means feel sorry while you continue doing evil works then you have fooled yourself into believing a lie that your belief in no way should involve your works! The gospel of the Messiah is about ceasing to do evil, and begin to do good works. Why do you think the Messiah taught, "give to the poor"? Hello?

Edited October 29, 2018 by alchristfollower

[alchristfollower]

Just now, Yowm said:

Please don't put words in my mouth.

In the case I am using it here, repentance means to rethink your false gospel because it's end for you and those who follow your message will be destruction. (I'm done here)

My false gospel that we should lower ourselves by "sell your possessions" and "no one can be my disciple unless they sell give up everything they have" as the Messiah taught and as the early assemblies did in obedience to that command? My false gospel that we should begin to do good works by giving to the poor when the Messiah taught, "give to the poor"? My false gospel that we should obey the Torah when the Messiah taught "I did not come to absolish the Law" and "until heaven and earth passes away not one jot or one tittle will fall from the Law"? My false gospel that the blood of the Messiah frees us from sin and perfects us, which the blood of animals was never able to do? 

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Perhaps it is you who believes in a false gospel and a false Yeshuah that you call "Jesus".

[alchristfollower]

Just now, Cobalt1959 said:

Then you have a serious problem, and you are not nearly as secure as you think you are, because no one can be perfectly obedient to Torah.  That is the point of the New Covenant and Christ's sacrifice.  There is no credible debate otherwise if one actually follows Christ.

That is not true, for the apostles declared, "he has PERFECTED by one sacrifice those who have been set apart" and "he has freed us from sin" and "he who is born of God cannot sin", so it is clear from what the apostles teach that men can indeed become perfected, through the setting apart work of the airflow of God. And actually, if you do not attain this perfection, you cannot inherit the kingdom of God. The Messiah taught "be perfect".

[alchristfollower]

8 minutes ago, Cobalt1959 said:

You're not pitching anything new here that myself, and everyone else here have not heard before in one form or another.  We've all heard the bogus line of reasoning that "I can become perfect like Christ."  A flawed human is never perfect while still on this Earth except positionally before God thru Christ.  If you actually believe you will get to the point of being "sinless" on this earth you are deluding yourself and you do not actually understand what constitutes sin.  Preaching a doctrine that is false is in and of itself a sin, so you might want to consider what you are preaching before attempting to spread it all over the board.  You are actually taking yourself several steps away from what you claim you will obtain.

Did you somehow ignore the scriptures I just quoted? Hello? Let me requote,

NO ONE WHO ABIDES IN HIM SINS; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. (1 John 3:6)

WE KNOW THAT EVERYONE BORN OF GOD DOES NOT SIN; but the one engendered of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. (I John 5:18)

WHOSEVER IS BORN OF GOD DOES NOT SIN; for his seed remaineth in him: AND HE CANNOT SIN, BECAUSE IS BORN OF GOD. (1 John 3:9)

You are the one in error, not realizing that unless you reach this perfection, which you claim does not exist, and call me a liar for believing exactly as the scriptures states, you will never inherit the kingdom of God.

Edited October 29, 2018 by alchristfollower

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, Cobalt1959 said:

Then you have a serious problem, and you are not nearly as secure as you think you are, because no one can be perfectly obedient to Torah.  That is the point of the New Covenant and Christ's sacrifice.  There is no credible debate otherwise if one actually follows Christ.

While I disagree with aChristfollower's position. I just wanted to point out that keeping the law and being obedient to the Torah didn't mean that a person was perfect or had to live a sinless life, it only meant that they followed the law. 

When someone living under the law violated a law there was a sacrifice contained within the law to atone for that violation. These sacrifices for atonement can be found in the first seven chapters of Leviticus. So when someone broke a law and followed up by offering the proper sacrifice he was justified in keeping the law. The law was not impossible to keep and many were able to according to the scriptures. 

And said to them, “You have kept all that Moses the servant of the Lord commanded you, and have listened to my voice in all that I commanded you. (Joshua 22:2)

Yet they did not listen to their judges, for they played the harlot after other gods and bowed themselves down to them. They turned aside quickly from the way in which their fathers had walked in obeying the commandments of the Lord; they did not do as their fathers. (Judges 2:17)

For he clung to the Lord; he did not depart from following Him, but kept His commandments, which the Lord had commanded Moses. (2 Kings 18:6)

We know David was far from perfect, but he also found justification while living under the law.

Nevertheless I will not take the whole kingdom out of his hand, but I will make him ruler all the days of his life, for the sake of My servant David whom I chose, who observed My commandments and My statutes; (1 Kings 11:34)

An individual prior to Christ and the cross was guilty of breaking the law until the they made a sacrifice, but after the sacrifice was made he was forgiven and the individual was seen as justified in the eyes of God for keeping the law and following its ordinances. 

Today however, and where aChristfollower is in error, we are justified by faith alone.  It's each person’s responsibility to repent, or turn away from unbelief and rebellion against God and acknowledge their faith in Christ as Lord and Savior. Repentance from our sins comes by the help of the Holy Spirit in us. Sanctification is a progressive work by which the believer becomes more and more free from sin and more and more like Christ and is an ongoing process from the time of our salvation until our physical bodies die. This process is not of our own doing and is accomplished through the work of the Holy Spirit. "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me" (Galatians 2:20)  Just as salvation does not depend on our works, neither does sanctification. Both are the work of God by His grace. 

“For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God not by works, so that no one can boast.” (Ephesians 2:8-9) 

[Blood Bought 1953]

 

“ if we say we have no sin we are calling God a liar”.  If you are so eager to follow Christ, why not do what His most recent marching orders TOLD us to do?  We have been ordered to follow Paul as he follows Christ......that would be believing Paul’s Gospel of Grace found in 1cor15:1-4. Simply believe that Christ died for your sins and he rose from the dead on the third day and you will be saved ......UNLESS you pervert it by trying to add your works to it.That will make you “accursed” and bound for Hell.The Bible is a dangerous thing for those who fail to properly study and divide it. You appear to be stuck in the days of the Old Covenant where the Law and the obedience to it counted for everything. Striving to keep the Laws of God is great! It just does not save.The Law was meant to shut the mouths of all mankind.It was given to show you can’t keep it—- you need a Savior.The starting point of Christianity is having a contrite heart, to be driven to ones knees and crying out to God saying, “ God have mercy on me, a sinner” That is true repentance.Contritness.I will pray that God grant you a softened heart that will make you understand repentance and be receptive to the true Gospel thAt saves us, this side of the Cross—— you fail to understand that the Shedding  Of Christ Holy Blood changed everything.. Faith plus nothing for Salvation. God is no more interested in our pitiful attempts to  achieve perfection than He was interested in Cain’s works . Two things save us in the end—— Christ’s Blood and Our Faith.Add to these two things at your own risk

 

 

[alchristfollower]

1 hour ago, Badjao33 said:

While I disagree with aChristfollower's position. I just wanted to point out that keeping the law and being obedient to the Torah didn't mean that a person was perfect or had to live a sinless life, it only meant that they followed the law. 

When someone living under the law violated a law there was a sacrifice contained within the law to atone for that violation. These sacrifices for atonement can be found in the first seven chapters of Leviticus. So when someone broke a law and followed up by offering the proper sacrifice he was justified in keeping the law. The law was not impossible to keep and many were able to according to the scriptures. 

And said to them, “You have kept all that Moses the servant of the Lord commanded you, and have listened to my voice in all that I commanded you. (Joshua 22:2)

Yet they did not listen to their judges, for they played the harlot after other gods and bowed themselves down to them. They turned aside quickly from the way in which their fathers had walked in obeying the commandments of the Lord; they did not do as their fathers. (Judges 2:17)

For he clung to the Lord; he did not depart from following Him, but kept His commandments, which the Lord had commanded Moses. (2 Kings 18:6)

We know David was far from perfect, but he also found justification while living under the law.

Nevertheless I will not take the whole kingdom out of his hand, but I will make him ruler all the days of his life, for the sake of My servant David whom I chose, who observed My commandments and My statutes; (1 Kings 11:34)

An individual prior to Christ and the cross was guilty of breaking the law until the they made a sacrifice, but after the sacrifice was made he was forgiven and the individual was seen as justified in the eyes of God for keeping the law and following its ordinances. 

Today however, and where aChristfollower is in error, we are justified by faith alone.  It's each person’s responsibility to repent, or turn away from unbelief and rebellion against God and acknowledge their faith in Christ as Lord and Savior. Repentance from our sins comes by the help of the Holy Spirit in us. Sanctification is a progressive work by which the believer becomes more and more free from sin and more and more like Christ and is an ongoing process from the time of our salvation until our physical bodies die. This process is not of our own doing and is accomplished through the work of the Holy Spirit. "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me" (Galatians 2:20)  Just as salvation does not depend on our works, neither does sanctification. Both are the work of God by His grace. 

“For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God not by works, so that no one can boast.” (Ephesians 2:8-9) 

Righteousness begins with belief, if your belief does not become works, then your belief is dead and useless. The righteousness of God is defined by the Torah, hence "if we are careful to obey these commands this shall be our righteousness", which means that your belief should eventually become the righteousness defined by the Torah at the very least, OR GREATER than the righteousness defined by it. The greater righteousness than the Torah comes through belief in the Messiah, through the setting apart of the airflow of God, which cuts away the sinful nature of the heart, which in turn, causes you to become more righteous than even Abraham and Moses, because you no longer have the sinful nature as they did, which is possible through the blood of the Messiah, which the blood of animals was never able to do. Even so, in the greater righteousness caused by the airflow of God, you still obey Torah! There is never a point in time where the righteousness of God discards Torah, otherwise it is not righteousness, no matter how much you believe!

And I WILL PUT MY AIRFLOW WITHIN YOU, AND CAUSE YOU to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules. (Ezekiel 36:27)

IN ORDER THAT THE RIGHTEOUS REQUIREMENT OF THE TORAH MIGHT BE FULL MET IN US, who do not live according to the flesh BUT ACCORDING TO THE AIRFLOW. (Romans 8:4)

DO WE, THEN, NULLIFY THE TORAH BY THIS BELIEF? NOT AT ALL! RATHER, WE UPHOLD THE TORAH. (Romans 3:31)

This is why whoever receives the airflow of God, which is also called being "born of God", cannot sin,

NO ONE WHO ABIDES IN HIM SINS; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. (1 John 3:6)

WE KNOW THAT EVERYONE BORN OF GOD DOES NOT SIN; but the one engendered of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. (I John 5:18)

WHOSEVER IS BORN OF GOD DOES NOT SIN; for his seed remaineth in him: AND HE CANNOT SIN, BECAUSE IS BORN OF GOD. (1 John 3:9)

Because he is literally born again into a new man free from the sinful nature,

And AIRFLOW OF YEHOVAH SHALL SPRING UPON YOU, and you shall prophesy with them, and YOU SHALL TURN INTO ANOTHER MAN. (1 Samuel 10:6)

In Him YOU WERE CIRCUMCISED IN THE PUTTING OFF OF YOUR SINFUL NATURE… (Colossians 2:11)

And I WILL GIVE YOU A NEW HEART, AND A NEW AIRFLOW I WILL PUT WITHIN YOU. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. (Ezekiel 36:26)

These are not figures of speech guys, these are literal things. UNDERSTAND! For your own sakes please understand!

Edited October 30, 2018 by alchristfollower

[alchristfollower]

3 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. (Rom 7:4)

For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. (Gal 2:19)

And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: (Php 3:9)

Ga 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Ga 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Ga 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Ga 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
 

You are only dead to the Torah when you become dead to sin. If you still sin, then you are still under Torah. Once you are freed from sin, then you are subsequently freed from Torah, because a Law that reveals everything that is sin no longer has a hold over someone that has been freed from sin and can no longer sin. As such, rather than become perfected and no longer be under Torah in that way, you have gone in the complete opposite direction and have become lawless, to your own demise, because of your confusion of why someone who is set apart by the airflow of God is no longer under Torah. The perfection caused by the airflow of God is the righteousness that comes from above and is not the righteousness that we establish on our own according to Torah, although it is indeed through Torah that we subsequently die to Torah,

For through the Torah I died to the Torah so that I might live for God. I have been crucified with the Messiah and I no longer live, but the Messiah lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by belief in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. (Galatians 2:19-2)

Because the Torah reveals all that is sin, that you must stop doing, to then receive the airflow of God, when then frees you from sin, and subsequently causes you to die to Torah. This isn't so difficult to understand.

 

 

[alchristfollower]

Just now, Yowm said:

Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
(Rom 7:4)
 

Why is it that you keep ignoring the scriptures I am quoting you? Are you so keen to discard the Torah? Let me requote,

IN ORDER THAT THE RIGHTEOUS REQUIREMENT OF THE TORAH MIGHT BE FULL MET IN US, who do not live according to the flesh BUT ACCORDING TO THE AIRFLOW. (Romans 8:4)

DO WE, THEN, NULLIFY THE TORAH BY THIS BELIEF? NOT AT ALL! RATHER, WE UPHOLD THE TORAH. (Romans 3:31)