Those Days Will Be Shortened

[iamlamad]

9 hours ago, childoftheking said:

I am not arguing the facts because like you said, they are facts.   I am arguing that Yeshua TWICE said the ELECT will go through the Tribulation.   One He mentions the days will be shortened for the Elect during Tribulation, 2nd He mentions the Elect will be gathered AFTER the Tribulation.

Obviously, these ELECT that are alive during the Tribulation are not those BEHEADED!!

And the 1/3 Jews do not come into play (Revelation 12) until the 2nd half of Tribulation and they ALL escape to ONE PLACE Petra.   But the ELECT are gathered by the Angels from the 4 corners, meaning Believers are EVERYWHERE during the Tribulation.

Before even addressing you, I wonder, do you understand that the ELECT means those who are SAVED?

Because if you do, there is no mistaking what Yeshua is saying here!!

Do you not understand that the 70th week is for ISRAEL, not the church? Go back and read it in Daniel chapter 9! It is for Daniel's people. Gentiles are NOT of Daniel's people. In other words, ISRAEL is "the elect" in Matthew 24.

Did you notice, "elect" is not used anywhere in Revelation in the KJV.  It is just common sense: all who are left behind in Paul's pretrib rapture will go through the 70th week! It will be those living in the darkness - those that get Paul's sudden destruction.  It will be all those still on the earth AFTER that great crowd too large to number is safely in heaven. 

Speaking of the rapture where saints will be resurrected: did you not read Isiah 26?

 

¹⁹ Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

²⁰ Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.

²¹ For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.
 

At the rapture, "dead men shall live." When John 14 comes to pass, and Jesus comes to take us to the homes He has prepared, then "come my people, enter into thy chambers" will come to pass.  The "Indignation" will be the 70th week. It is the very time that the inhabitants of the earth will be punished. It will begin with the first trumpet and end with the 7th vial and great earthquake. 

Therefore, "the elect" can refer to either Jews (not born again - no in the church) and saints in the church.

 

Isaiah 45:4

For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

 

Matthew 24:22

And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.  (Still about the Jews)

 

Matthew 24:24

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.  (Still about the Jews)

 

Matthew 24:31

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.  (Still about the Jews)

 

Mark 13:27

And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.   (Still about the Jews)

 

Romans 11:28

As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.  (Still about the Jews)

 

Colossians 3:12

Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;  (Finally the elect talking about the Gentile church!)

 

1 Thessalonians 1:4

Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.   (Again the elect talking about the Gentile church!)

1 Timothy 5:21

I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality. (Here the "elect" are angels!)

 

There are more pertaining to the church, but this is enough: elect can refer to either the Jews of the Gentile church. We determine who by the context. The context of Matthew 24 is Jesus teaching the Jews about the end of THEIR age. It is not about the church directly. 

Edited April 30, 2019 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

9 hours ago, Last Daze said:

Everything will be revealed in its time.  The best I can do is echo the words of Jesus.

• What I say to you I say to all, ‘Be on the alert!’  Mark 13:37

I can agree: He told us to "watch" many times!  However, I can assure you, I am watching FOR HIM, not for the antichrist. He is coming first.

[childoftheking]

6 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Pay attention now and you can learn something.

Rev. 2:²⁰ Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee [the church in Thyatira], because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

²¹ And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

²² Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

 

This is John, writing to an EXISTING CHURCH around 95 AD. God is telling Jezebel and the man who were sleeping with her that He, God, would cast them all into "great tribulation" unless they repent. 

Was God's plan then to keep them alive for 2000 years for THE GREAT TRIBULATION that Jesus spoke of? Or is it possible that God can create "great tribulation" any time He chooses? 

In other words, when we see the two words together, "great" and "tribulation" does it ALWAYS have to mean the days Jesus spoke of?  Did you just not notice that these two words together were NOT ENOUGH for Jesus? He had to add more words to describe the days He was talking about:  "such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

There have been many times there was "great tribulation" for Israel. That is why Jesus had to add more words.  John used "great tribulation" in a latter to a church back in 95 AD. He was certainly not meaning the same days of GT that Jesus spoke of. 

Then John used the same two words together in chapter 7, and again CERTAINLY not referring to the days Jesus spoke of.

Next, do you really know what will CAUSE those days of GT that Jesus spoke of? Do you even know what the root word "tribulation" comes from - the Greek behind it? 

"Tribulation (2347) (thlipsis from thlibo = to crush, press together, squash, hem in, compress, squeeze in turn derived from thláo = to break) originally expressed sheer, physical pressure on a man. Thlipsis is a strong term which does not refer to minor inconveniences, but to real hardships."

Great tribulation means great pressure. So what will cause this great pressure that Jesus was speaking of? We find that out in Rev. 13.  People will be forces to worship an image (think Nebuchadnezzar and the 3 Hebrew guys that refused to bow)  lose their head, and take the mark or lose their head. But before this God will send angels to warn every person in their own language that taking the mark will doom them to the lake of fire. In the mean time, The Two Witnesses will shut off the rain. Fresh water will dry up. God will first cause 1/3 of the fresh water to be undrinkable, then finally ALL the fresh water into blood. In other words, there will be NO WATER for those running from the Beast. The Only water will be in the stores and without the mark, no one can buy water.  These things together will cause GREAT PRESSURE upon people to take the mark and bow to the image. Thirst can be a great motivator. Losing your head can also be a great motivator.

Next, WHERE in REvelation do these days of GT begin? Jesus said after the abomination. We can get very close to the abomination by looking for those that flee when they see it: we find that in 12:6.  Therefore, the days of GT that Jesus spoke of cannot possibly come before Rev. 12:6. But we read of God's warning not to take the mark, in chapter 14. Therefore we know that the days of GT Jesus spoke of CANNOT POSSIBLY come in Revelation before chapter 14.  How amazing! John wrote that the beheaded begin showing up in chapter 15. You see, Revelation makes a lot of sense when you believe the words written without preconceptions.

In other words, my friend, this is not denial, it is UNDERSTANDING - which you are missing entirely.

Now, understand what John is telling us: these are those who come out of great tribulation. We could say last week was a week of great tribulation. People DIED just because they went to church. How many stayed home from church after  - because of what happened? People are under pressure do to suicide bombers. No, it does not rise to the level of the days Jesus spoke of: that is why Jesus said like never before or after. When people DIE because they are in church, or because they love Jesus, tribulation was great for them: they cannot be killed twice!  So all John is saying is that at the time of the rapture, people will be DYING for their testimony.

Did you ever notice that John, in chapter 1 tells us that he was in THE tribulation? 

KJV:  "⁹ I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation

τῇ θλίψει

the tribulation

The "the" is there in all the Greek texts. Few translators translate it. In other words, John was there in 95 ad in "THE TRIBULATION."  God calls the church age, "the tribulation." When people are martyred, it becomes great tribulation. But when the Beast forces people to take the mark, or lose their head, it will be GT such as has never been before or ever will be again.

Now, please explain how a huge group too large to number in chapter 7 can possibly me martyrs from chapter 15? This I want to see.

Next, the number of martyrs during these coming days will be FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR less than this group of raptured saints: the church. It will number into the billions: perhaps 50 generations of believers! 

In other words, you are simply mistaken: there is no possible way this group too large to number are martyred saints from the days of GT that Jesus spoke of - days that will not start in Rev. until after the warning in chapter 14.

OF COURSE the great crowd too large to number is not related in any way to the 144,000. Did I ever say they WERE related? Except, John wrote of both groups in the same chapter, and both events will happen pretrib or pre-70th week.

You can stay behind if you wish,  and tribulate all you want. I am escaping (using God's escape clause in Luke) and going out on the first load - pretrib. I will be IN that group too large to number in chapter 7.

By the way, the Holocaust killed 6 million Jews. Take a wild guess: how many people will the Beast behead? Maybe ten times as much? Maybe 60 million? It will still not even be comparable to a group too large to number.

 

First of all, the 7 churches of Asia Minor are prophetic time dispensations.

 

Example:

In the 1960's to basically the year 2,000, this era is known as "Brotherly love or the Generation of Peace."   This era coincides with what we read pertaining to the church and Dispensation of Philadelphus (Brotherly Love).

 

Since then, and you can tell specifically by how churches allow homosexuals to be pastors and bible teachers, how the majority of believers are neither hot nor cold, an obvious riding the fence mode, and the fact that there is a great deception taking place with elections and candidates leading us right into the ONE WORLD SYSTEM.   We definitely are in the Dispensation of Laodecia.

 

Yes, these were actual churches in John's day, but today, they are serving prophetic Dispensations.   And we happen to be in the very last Dispensation.

 

 

Now, to address the passage of scripture you are referring to:

 

Revelation 2:

18And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;

19I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

20Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

21And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

22Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

 

 

You do understand if you take the Dispensation and apply it correctly, these 5 verses already happened, and it happened right here in the United States of America.   

We call it, "The Great Depression."

If you break down Jezebel and what she represents, plus research the 1930's, the number one theme was specifically, just as we read in the latter half of verse 20: "to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols."

Fornication and idols (Specifically Moloch - god of wealth and riches).

During this "Great Tribulation," more people lost all of their savings, their sources of income, and more suicides were commited than any other time in history.

 

 

You really are stretching here:

I suggest you study to know and understand what has happened, and then apply to where scripture aligns to that history, before trying to pass it off onto something not even related!!

 

You are really striking out here, but that happens, and it happens specifically to those who lack proper scripture interpretation!!

Edited April 30, 2019 by childoftheking

[childoftheking]

6 hours ago, iamlamad said:

No, you are mistaken yet again: only a small group of the Jews in Israel escape to the wilderness.  Did you not read of those still in Jerusalem who escape here in Zech 14?

⁴ And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

⁵ And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

 

This may well be Matthew's gathering from chapter 24:

Isaiah 11:12

And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

 

By the way, there is MORE to Israel that the land called Judea. Jesus told those living in Judea to flee. I guess you know, God has promised to bring 1/3 of the Jews through to the end. How do you expect the Jews in NY or CA to get to Judea and flee? Airplane?  No, only a very small percent of Israel worldwide will flee. 

 

What Denomination are you?

Because I have yet to meet anyone on this level of cluelessness...

 

Revelation 12:

verse 1 represents Israel = Woman with sun-moon-12 stars = Joseph's Dream

verse 4 is like many prophecies.  Something happens and later in history, a similar incident takes place but this time with a deeper prophetic meaning.   Here we see 1/3 Jews escape to Petra.

 

Look at the antisemitism currently happening in the United States with several synagogues being burnt and destroyed.   America's Jews will RETURN to Israel like prophesied.   You can literally see this prophecy happening today.   That is 10 Jewish Churches destroyed in a month, and Trump is encouraging it.   When the hate succeeds, Jews will do like they have all throughout their history, they will flee to Israel.

 

You obviously are not even aware of what is currently happening or you would not have tried to make the claim you just did (shakes my head in disbelief at how lost and clueless you really are)...

[childoftheking]

6 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Do you not understand that the 70th week is for ISRAEL, not the church? Go back and read it in Daniel chapter 9! It is for Daniel's people. Gentiles are NOT of Daniel's people. In other words, ISRAEL is "the elect" in Matthew 24.

Did you notice, "elect" is not used anywhere in Revelation in the KJV.  It is just common sense: all who are left behind in Paul's pretrib rapture will go through the 70th week! It will be those living in the darkness - those that get Paul's sudden destruction.  It will be all those still on the earth AFTER that great crowd too large to number is safely in heaven. 

Speaking of the rapture where saints will be resurrected: did you not read Isiah 26?

 

¹⁹ Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

²⁰ Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.

²¹ For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.
 

At the rapture, "dead men shall live." When John 14 comes to pass, and Jesus comes to take us to the homes He has prepared, then "come my people, enter into thy chambers" will come to pass.  The "Indignation" will be the 70th week. It is the very time that the inhabitants of the earth will be punished. It will begin with the first trumpet and end with the 7th vial and great earthquake. 

Therefore, "the elect" can refer to either Jews (not born again - no in the church) and saints in the church.

 

Isaiah 45:4

For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

 

Matthew 24:22

And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.  (Still about the Jews)

 

Matthew 24:24

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.  (Still about the Jews)

 

Matthew 24:31

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.  (Still about the Jews)

 

Mark 13:27

And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.   (Still about the Jews)

 

Romans 11:28

As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.  (Still about the Jews)

 

Colossians 3:12

Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;  (Finally the elect talking about the Gentile church!)

 

1 Thessalonians 1:4

Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.   (Again the elect talking about the Gentile church!)

1 Timothy 5:21

I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality. (Here the "elect" are angels!)

 

There are more pertaining to the church, but this is enough: elect can refer to either the Jews of the Gentile church. We determine who by the context. The context of Matthew 24 is Jesus teaching the Jews about the end of THEIR age. It is not about the church directly. 

 

hahahahahahaha JUST WOW...talk about unbelievable!!

 

Ummm, you do know that the 70th week of Daniel already took place in 70 A.D.?

And yes, 70 A.D. was ALL ABOUT ISRAEL, Daniel's 70th week!!

 

The portion of Daniel matching Revelation and Matthew is chapters 11 and 12!!

 

You really need to go to SEMINARY!!

Or

Maybe you are afraid to, because they will destroy the false beliefs that you have been posting in this thread alone!!

Edited April 30, 2019 by childoftheking

[Last Daze]

10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I can agree: He told us to "watch" many times!  However, I can assure you, I am watching FOR HIM, not for the antichrist. He is coming first.

The birth pangs come before the baby is delivered.

Last trumpet on the last day.  Bring extra oil.  Endure to the end. Persevere. Stay awake.  That's the scriptural message.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Last Daze said:

The birth pangs come before the baby is delivered.

Last trumpet on the last day.  Bring extra oil.  Endure to the end. Persevere. Stay awake.  That's the scriptural message.

The birth pains have been ongoing for the church age: they are the beginning of sorrows.

Matthew 24:⁴ Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. ⁵ For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. ⁶ You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. ⁷ Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. ⁸ All these are the beginning of birth pains.

 

However, as the birth progresses, the pains will get worse: the 70th week must come before the birth of the Millennial reign of Christ. Notice the bolded text: "the end is still to come." Jesus is still in the church age: he does not get to "the end" until verse 14 or so.  

The point you always ignore is that the final week is for the Jews. It is for Daniel's people, NOT THE CHURCH. That is why God's plan is for the rapture to be pretrib. In other words, we WATCH for HIM, not for the Antichrist.  The 70th week is wrath - and God will not set any appointments for us with His wrath.  Just read the book!  His wrath begins at the 6th seal and then continues through the trumpet judgments (first half of the week) and then through the vials to the end of the week. The Gentile church of today will not see any of this. Again, just read the book with understanding.  The "last trump" of Paul will undoubtedly be the final, long trumpet blast at the Feast of Trumpets: it could be THIS YEAR. The rapture will take place, and instantly, while those in Christ are rising up, those left behind face the sudden destruction earthquake of the 6th seal. 

Then comes the ten days of Awe: the time between the 6th seal and the 7th. The 7th seal officially starts the 70th week. Next will come the trumpet judgments. The 7th trumpet will mark the midpoint. Then the days of great tribulation will come, and finally at the 7th vial the week ends. It is done. It is finished. But the events of chapters 17 & 18 must play out, and finally, as shown in chapter 19, the marriage and supper will take place in heaven. The church will have been there at this time for over 7 years. Then, finally, after all that, Jesus and the church (part of the armies of heaven) will return to earth for the battle of Armageddon.   

This is what is written, and this is the way it will happen. It is written.

[iamlamad]

6 hours ago, childoftheking said:

hahahahahahaha JUST WOW...talk about unbelievable!!

Ummm, you do know that the 70th week of Daniel already took place in 70 A.D.?

And yes, 70 A.D. was ALL ABOUT ISRAEL, Daniel's 70th week!!

The portion of Daniel matching Revelation and Matthew is chapters 11 and 12!!

You really need to go to SEMINARY!!

Or

Maybe you are afraid to, because they will destroy the false beliefs that you have been posting in this thread alone!!

Your posts are filled with MYTHS. Mark it down: when these events take place you will see that the 70th week of Daniel is marked by 7's in Revelation: the 7th seal starts the week, the 7th trumpet marks the midpoint, and the 7th vial ends it. 

Did you just ignore Dan 9:27? Daniel told us that there will be an event that will stop the daily sacrifices and divide the week into two halves.  You are trying to divide half a week and still end up with halves. No, you end up with quarters that don't fit the text!  There MUST BE an entire week in our future to divide it and end up with two halves: 1260 days each. Revelation shows us the last half 5 different times and 3 different ways. Daniel shows us the last half two times. 

Jesus said that when people SEE that abomination that will stop the daily sacrifices, they are to flee into the mountains. WHERE do we find that fleeing in Revelation? It is in 12:6. Therefore, the timing of that verse is only seconds past the timing of the abomination. With diligent study, one can find that the 7th trumpet sounds in heaven to mark the time that the abomination will take place on earth. Paul tells us what it will be: the man of sin will enter the temple and declare he is God. It will be live on camera and the world will see it. Instantly those in Judea will begin to flee. 

Rev. 11:1-2: the man of sin enters Jerusalem with Gentile armies: they will trample the city for 42 months. That will take them to the 7th vial that ends the week.

Rev. 11:3: because the man of sin will show up in Jerusalem (he MUST get to Jerusalem so he will be there to enter the new temple) the two witnesses will show up, probably seconds after the man if sin enters Jerusalem. They will begin their witnessing just 3 1/2 days before the man if sin will enter the temple and divide the week. They will testify for 1260 days - which will take them almost to the 7th vial: they will be killed just 3 1/2 days before that 7th vial ends the week. 

Next, right on the 1260th day from the 7th seal, the man of sin will enter the temple, and the daily sacrifices will stop. the temple will have to be cleansed before the daily sacrifices can start again.  the 7th trumpet will sound in heaven to mark that time on earth. 

Rev. 12:6  Those living in Judea, having seen the man of sin tell the world HE is the God of the Jews, will begin to flee, and will be out in the wilderness for 1260 days. That will take them to the day Jesus returns and saves them: the timing of chapter 19 - AFTER the 70th week has finished.

Rev. 12: 14: those who fled into the wilderness in 12:6 will be protected and fed for 3 1/2 years. That will take them to the day Jesus returns.

Rev. 13:6: the man of sin turned Antichrist Beast will be given 42 months of authority. His authority will last until Rev. 19 when Jesus returns.

My friend, this is what is written. Anything else is MYTH. Chuck your theories in the trash and start over. BELIEVE what John wrote!

Common sense: if the midpoint is marked by the fleeing (12:6) and it is, then the events just before 12:6 MUST take time. I am referring to the first 6 trumpet judgments. If the events of chapter 12 to chapter 16 are the last half of the week, when what is the timing for the trumpet judgments? It is the FIRST HALF of the week.  Again, if you try to divide a half apple  - you end up with quarters, not halves. There MUST BE an entire week of 7 years to divide it and end up with halves. 

Don't take my word for it: TRY IT. Take an apple today and divide it into two halves. Eat one half and put the rest aside until tomorrow. That time until tomorrow will represent the time from 70 AD to today. OK, now tomorrow, take that half an apple out and divide it into two equal pieces. What do you have left? two halves of the original apple? No! You have two quarters!

But in Revelation, when the man of sin enters the temple and declares He is God, (NOT seen by John so not written) an entire week is divided  - proven by the 5 mentions of the last 3.5 years. 

I suggest more study on your part - but from now on, take off those preconceived glasses!

[iamlamad]

6 hours ago, childoftheking said:

What Denomination are you?

Because I have yet to meet anyone on this level of cluelessness...

Revelation 12:

verse 1 represents Israel = Woman with sun-moon-12 stars = Joseph's Dream

verse 4 is like many prophecies.  Something happens and later in history, a similar incident takes place but this time with a deeper prophetic meaning.   Here we see 1/3 Jews escape to Petra.

Look at the antisemitism currently happening in the United States with several synagogues being burnt and destroyed.   America's Jews will RETURN to Israel like prophesied.   You can literally see this prophecy happening today.   That is 10 Jewish Churches destroyed in a month, and Trump is encouraging it.   When the hate succeeds, Jews will do like they have all throughout their history, they will flee to Israel.

You obviously are not even aware of what is currently happening or you would not have tried to make the claim you just did (shakes my head in disbelief at how lost and clueless you really are)...

Ramble on with your myths, my friend - but what will you do when you find I am right?  My denomination? I claim none: I prefer non-denominational churches - If they teach truth. 

Yes, of course the vision of the Virgin  - Virgo - represents ISRAEL from where the Messiah came. AGreed. Verse 4?

 ⁴ Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born.

Without a doubt, this is making reference to when Satan was kicked out of heaven in the beginning. One third of the angels choose to go with him. But at this time, the time of Jesus' birth, the "dragon" or the devil, Satan, wants to kill Jesus when He is born. Satan was most certainly in Israel trying to find WHO is going to give birth to the Messiah, so he can murder the child a soon as possible after the birth. Of course we know Satan got into the thinking of King Herod and was behind him murdering all the children in Bethlehem under two years old. 

⁵ She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.”^[a] And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne.

Surely you understand, these first 5 verses in Rev. 12 are written as a parenthesis, with NO BEARING on John's chronology. Please, allow me to explain: Chapter 12 was God introducing John to the dragon, and in particular what the dragon would be doing during the last half of the week. The dragon is mentioned 32 times in this chapter! But God CHOSE to show John what the dragon DID when Jesus was born. Those first 5 verses were a history lesson for John. They are not in any way related to the 70th week.  They ARE related to how Satan tried to kill Jesus.

12:6 is right back to John's chronology: the parenthesis of verses 1-5 are finished. The timing of 12:6 is a second or two after the man of sin has entered the temple. 

The truth? You MISSED the intent of the Author in verse 1-5. Many people do.  Who then is clueless? 

America's Jews will RETURN to Israel like prophesied.  Well, yes,  they WILL, but most of them when they are gathered by angels as shown in Matthew 24.  Trump is NOT encouraging such a thing. Many presidents have promised to move the US embassy to Jerusalem, but Trump DELIVERED on his promise. 

When these things begin to take place, you will find that "clueless" fits someone else. I follow the written Word.

[Last Daze]

47 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

The birth pains have been ongoing for the church age: they are the beginning of sorrows.

Matthew 24:⁴ Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. ⁵ For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. ⁶ You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. ⁷ Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. ⁸ All these are the beginning of birth pains.

 

However, as the birth progresses, the pains will get worse: the 70th week must come before the birth of the Millennial reign of Christ. Notice the bolded text: "the end is still to come." Jesus is still in the church age: he does not get to "the end" until verse 14 or so.  

The point you always ignore is that the final week is for the Jews. It is for Daniel's people, NOT THE CHURCH. That is why God's plan is for the rapture to be pretrib. In other words, we WATCH for HIM, not for the Antichrist.  The 70th week is wrath - and God will not set any appointments for us with His wrath.  Just read the book!  His wrath begins at the 6th seal and then continues through the trumpet judgments (first half of the week) and then through the vials to the end of the week. The Gentile church of today will not see any of this. Again, just read the book with understanding.  The "last trump" of Paul will undoubtedly be the final, long trumpet blast at the Feast of Trumpets: it could be THIS YEAR. The rapture will take place, and instantly, while those in Christ are rising up, those left behind face the sudden destruction earthquake of the 6th seal. 

Then comes the ten days of Awe: the time between the 6th seal and the 7th. The 7th seal officially starts the 70th week. Next will come the trumpet judgments. The 7th trumpet will mark the midpoint. Then the days of great tribulation will come, and finally at the 7th vial the week ends. It is done. It is finished. But the events of chapters 17 & 18 must play out, and finally, as shown in chapter 19, the marriage and supper will take place in heaven. The church will have been there at this time for over 7 years. Then, finally, after all that, Jesus and the church (part of the armies of heaven) will return to earth for the battle of Armageddon.   

This is what is written, and this is the way it will happen. It is written.

• “Take heed, keep on the alert; for you do not know when the appointed time will come.  It is like a man away on a journey, who upon leaving his house and putting his slaves in charge, assigning to each one his task, also commanded the doorkeeper to stay on the alert.  Therefore, be on the alert—for you do not know when the master of the house is coming, whether in the evening, at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or in the morning— in case he should come suddenly and find you asleep.  What I say to you I say to all, ‘Be on the alert!’”  Mark 13:33-37

We are soooo far apart, I'll just leave you with that passage.  It's up to you whether you heed the word of the Lord or not.