Evolution Question About Dinosaurs

[Spock]

54 minutes ago, ARGOSY said:

One of the strongest arguments for creationism is to accept the Cambrian Explosion, where evolutionist battle to explain how multiple species appeared abruptly in the fossil record, without any signs of where they evolved from. 

I agree.  That has always been their Achilles heel....no transitional fossils.

But I also suspect Christians perhaps are overly zealous to make our earth young in order to take evolutions need for time, lots of it, for things to evolve, away from them (evolutionists). 

That never concerned me. I don’t care if the Earth is 4.5 BYO....that doesn’t prove species evoled to be other new species. 

[ARGOSY]

1 minute ago, Spock said:

So, my interpretation of verse 1 is that In the beginning (UNKNOWN) God made the heavens and the earth.

it might be 4.5 BYA or it might be 20,000 years ago....I don’t know.

so, if I want to try to know, all I have left is to apply scientific methods, right?

and here is the rub.....where it all goes bonkers. Even Christian scientists don’t agree about these matters. 

So, it’s basically experts v experts just like in a court of law where both parties parade in their experts to say what they want them to say, with opposing theories. And a lay jury has to try to sort all of this out. 

Now you see why I have stayed out of this arena.  Too much uncertainty for my liking. 

Sure let them battle it out. In the meantime I have some tools at my disposal. 1) the Bible. 2) a logical mind 3) actual studies that I can interpret without the burden of evolutionary assumption

Will I convince anyone of my theories? No but it's just a curiosity to me, to save souls is a thing of the heart, not of the mind. But I enjoy knowing things, it's fun for me to resolve mysteries in the ancient past and the near future. 

 

[Spock]

8 minutes ago, ARGOSY said:

 

Will I convince anyone of my theories? No but it's just a curiosity to me, to save souls is a thing of the heart, not of the mind. But I enjoy knowing things, it's fun for me to resolve mysteries in the ancient past and the near future. 

 

Well put. 

In the past I have spent hours debating the origin of the universe/man with people on various websites I attend and I never felt anything I said mattered because like you said, saving a soul is a matter of the heart, not mind.  Yes, I did feel all I was doing was challenging someone’s INTELLECT !  It just felt fruitless, but I’m sure someone could always say, “you never know what seeds you planted to someone reading....”

But I agree, I too like to further my education and never stop learning. 

I see you are wise to not put a starting date to the earth. 

[ARGOSY]

13 minutes ago, Spock said:

So, my interpretation of verse 1 is that In the beginning (UNKNOWN) God made the heavens and the earth.

it might be 4.5 BYA or it might be 20,000 years ago....I don’t know.

so, if I want to try to know, all I have left is to apply scientific methods, right?

 

I agree with this. It's unknown and we are waiting for the science to unfold.  Many creationist young earthers insist the earth has to be 6000 years old, I just don't see that in the text.

[HAZARD]

 

Who knows when or what period of time, "IN THE BEGINNING" was?

 

In Genesis it says, Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

 

It does not say, 6'000 years ago God created the heaven and the earth.

 

John 1;1 also states, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

 

It does not say, Six thousand years ago was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God, six thousand years ago?

 

The next two verses also do not mention any time period or time when things were created.

 

John 1: 2, The same was in the beginning with God.
   

John 1; 3, All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made.

 

God and the Word, before he became flesh and dwelt among us are ETERNAL beings. Sure as God the Word had no beginning but as a Man, He had a beginning.

 

John 1;14; "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

 

It is interesting to note that astronomers have discovered planets about 150,000,000 light years from the Earth. This is about 14,690,062,800,000,000,000 miles from the Earth, or a distance light can travel in 150,000,000 years at a speed of 186,000 miles per second. Astronomers also say there are other universes even beyond this one. They say about 6,000,000,000 stars have been discovered and they are all suns to other planets. If this is true then the universe is beyond human conception.

 

It is hard to conceive that God has existed from all eternity past as a lazy being, not doing anything until a few millennium ago, when He finally decided to do something.

 

It is easier to conceive that God has been making things in all the eternal past. Jesus Himself said;

 

 John 5:17, "But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work."

And they will continue to work through eternity future, and we will be included in their work!

 

I ask you, is the universe, many parts of it that are not in rebellion, in sin against God inhabited,? I believe so because of this simple Scripture;

 

Revelation 12:12, "Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them . . . . . . Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time." yes, his time will shortly and positively and securely cut off!

 

The Bible says the heavens cannot be measured and the host of Heaven cannot be counted (Jer. 31:37 ; 33:22-25). It is also clear that the spirit world of angels, seraphims, cherubims, and other spirit beings were created before the Earth, for the "sons of God," (angels), were present and shouting when God laid the foundations of the Earth. It is also clear from this passage that God created the heavens, including the moon, the sun and stars were created before the Earth, for "the morning stars" sang together when God laid the foundations of the Earth. This would be the logical order of creation, to make theplace before creating the inhabitants to live in or on the place.

Since inhabitants were a part of the creation and not part of Creators (Col. 1:15-18), they naturally would have to be created on which they were to live. This is the way it happened on Earth in the six days of the restoration of the Earth from chaos to a second habitable state (Gen. 1:3-2:25).

 

Bearing all this in mind, we either believe our God can and did create everything which included the molecules of the universe, from the basic atomic particles to the subatomic particles, and even particles we know nothing about yet in His creation we see and live in today!

 

In a nutshell and put simply;

“In the beginning" [literally by periods or ages] God created the heaven, [Hebrew, heavens] and the earth, not 6000years ago God created the Heaven and the earth.
When we speak of the six days and the creation of the present life on Earth, we can speak with Bible authority that it was about 6000 years ago. This can be seen by the lengths of the various dispensations since Adam. In no Scripture are we taught to believe that the heavens and the Earth were originally created during the six days and at the time of Adam about 6000 years ago.
Some use Exodus 20:8-11; 31:17 to try and prove that the heavens and the Earth were created in the six days of Gen. 1:3-2:25, and therefore, that they were created about 6000 years ago. However, nothing is said of the original creation of the heavens and the Earth in these passages.

In these Scriptures the Hebrew word 'ASAH,' meaning to make out of already existing material, is used instead of the word 'BARA,' to create. These verses picture the re-creation work of the six days and not the original creation "In the beginning."

'ASAH' never means to create. It is translated 'MADE,' 659 times; 'MAKE,' 449 times; 'MAKETH,' 59 times and 'MAKEST,' sixteen times; 'MAKER,' thirteen times; 'MAKING,' eleven times; and 'MADEST,' three times.
When God said, "In six days, the Lord 'MADE' heaven and Earth," he had in mind the restoration of the heaven (firmament, or clouds) the Earth to a habitable state as it was before the destruction of Lucifer’s kingdom by the flood and Gen. 1:2.

[Spock]

1 hour ago, HAZARD said:

 

Who knows when or what period of time, "IN THE BEGINNING" was?

 

In Genesis it says, Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

 

It does not say, 6'000 years ago God created the heaven and the earth.

 

John 1;1 also states, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

 

It does not say, Six thousand years ago was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God, six thousand years ago?

 

The next two verses also do not mention any time period or time when things were created.

 

John 1: 2, The same was in the beginning with God.
   

John 1; 3, All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made.

 

God and the Word, before he became flesh and dwelt among us are ETERNAL beings. Sure as God the Word had no beginning but as a Man, He had a beginning.

 

John 1;14; "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

 

It is interesting to note that astronomers have discovered planets about 150,000,000 light years from the Earth. This is about 14,690,062,800,000,000,000 miles from the Earth, or a distance light can travel in 150,000,000 years at a speed of 186,000 miles per second. Astronomers also say there are other universes even beyond this one. They say about 6,000,000,000 stars have been discovered and they are all suns to other planets. If this is true then the universe is beyond human conception.

 

It is hard to conceive that God has existed from all eternity past as a lazy being, not doing anything until a few millennium ago, when He finally decided to do something.

 

It is easier to conceive that God has been making things in all the eternal past. Jesus Himself said;

 

 John 5:17, "But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work."

And they will continue to work through eternity future, and we will be included in their work!

 

I ask you, is the universe, many parts of it that are not in rebellion, in sin against God inhabited,? I believe so because of this simple Scripture;

 

Revelation 12:12, "Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them . . . . . . Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time." yes, his time will shortly and positively and securely cut off!

 

The Bible says the heavens cannot be measured and the host of Heaven cannot be counted (Jer. 31:37 ; 33:22-25). It is also clear that the spirit world of angels, seraphims, cherubims, and other spirit beings were created before the Earth, for the "sons of God," (angels), were present and shouting when God laid the foundations of the Earth. It is also clear from this passage that God created the heavens, including the moon, the sun and stars were created before the Earth, for "the morning stars" sang together when God laid the foundations of the Earth. This would be the logical order of creation, to make theplace before creating the inhabitants to live in or on the place.

Since inhabitants were a part of the creation and not part of Creators (Col. 1:15-18), they naturally would have to be created on which they were to live. This is the way it happened on Earth in the six days of the restoration of the Earth from chaos to a second habitable state (Gen. 1:3-2:25).

 

Bearing all this in mind, we either believe our God can and did create everything which included the molecules of the universe, from the basic atomic particles to the subatomic particles, and even particles we know nothing about yet in His creation we see and live in today!

 

In a nutshell and put simply;

“In the beginning" [literally by periods or ages] God created the heaven, [Hebrew, heavens] and the earth, not 6000years ago God created the Heaven and the earth.
When we speak of the six days and the creation of the present life on Earth, we can speak with Bible authority that it was about 6000 years ago. This can be seen by the lengths of the various dispensations since Adam. In no Scripture are we taught to believe that the heavens and the Earth were originally created during the six days and at the time of Adam about 6000 years ago.
Some use Exodus 20:8-11; 31:17 to try and prove that the heavens and the Earth were created in the six days of Gen. 1:3-2:25, and therefore, that they were created about 6000 years ago. However, nothing is said of the original creation of the heavens and the Earth in these passages.

In these Scriptures the Hebrew word 'ASAH,' meaning to make out of already existing material, is used instead of the word 'BARA,' to create. These verses picture the re-creation work of the six days and not the original creation "In the beginning."

'ASAH' never means to create. It is translated 'MADE,' 659 times; 'MAKE,' 449 times; 'MAKETH,' 59 times and 'MAKEST,' sixteen times; 'MAKER,' thirteen times; 'MAKING,' eleven times; and 'MADEST,' three times.
When God said, "In six days, the Lord 'MADE' heaven and Earth," he had in mind the restoration of the heaven (firmament, or clouds) the Earth to a habitable state as it was before the destruction of Lucifer’s kingdom by the flood and Gen. 1:2.

From your lips, to God’s ears.............

This is a WORTHY post Hazard. 

Even better than the one that made me smile...the cedar trees showing how they can look like elephant tails. Although I admit, this comment put a big smile on my face too....

”It is hard to conceive that God has existed from all eternity past as a lazy being, not doing anything until a few millennium ago, when He finally decided to do something.”.  ??

[one.opinion]

20 hours ago, ARGOSY said:

evolutionist battle to explain how multiple species appeared abruptly in the fossil record

It is important to remember that in this scenario, "abruptly" means a time span of 20-25 million years. In other words, not at all what we would normally consider "abrupt".

20 hours ago, Spock said:

That has always been their Achilles heel....no transitional fossils.

You might be surprised at the fossil evidence that really does exist. Here is a good Wiki entry with a lot more information:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambrian_explosion#Evidence_of_animals_around_1_billion_years_ago

[ARGOSY]

23 minutes ago, one.opinion said:

It is important to remember that in this scenario, "abruptly" means a time span of 20-25 million years. In other words, not at all what we would normally consider "abrupt".

You might be surprised at the fossil evidence that really does exist. Here is a good Wiki entry with a lot more information:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambrian_explosion#Evidence_of_animals_around_1_billion_years_ago

In evolutionary terms , 25 million years isn't enough to create those life-forms, and yet is more than enough time to leave some trace of at least one of those transitional types in a 25 million year fossil record. .   Evolutionists give themselves many excuses for that huge  gap in the fossil record, but the excuses are just not intellectually appealing. 

[one.opinion]

23 minutes ago, ARGOSY said:

In evolutionary terms , 25 million years isn't enough to create those life-forms

What evidence would you use to confirm this? It isn't feasible to set up an experiment that would put organisms into environments with so many available ecological niches to fill.

26 minutes ago, ARGOSY said:

yet is more than enough time to leave some trace of at least one of those transitional types in a 25 million year fossil record.

Check the wiki link - the available transitional fossils may surprise you. Here is another good site with information on transitional fossils.

https://burgess-shale.rom.on.ca/en/science/origin/04-cambrian-explosion.php

 

[ARGOSY]

3 minutes ago, one.opinion said:

What evidence would you use to confirm this? It isn't feasible to set up an experiment that would put organisms into environments with so many available ecological niches to fill.

Check the wiki link - the available transitional fossils may surprise you. Here is another good site with information on transitional fossils.

https://burgess-shale.rom.on.ca/en/science/origin/04-cambrian-explosion.php

 

The evidence is that when they tried to induce evolution by exposing e-coli to different environments over many years, they never observed even one succesful new gene with a new function that added fitness. To then surmise that a theoretical gene adding process occurred many thousands of times in 25 million years is just theoretical hope, the process has not convincingly been observed yet.