Who me Posted February 5, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,302 Content Per Day: 1.71 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted February 5, 2022 On 1/20/2022 at 1:05 AM, R. Hartono said: Those churches pastors asking tithe money will be "smacked down to death on the ring" if they ever tried to enter the temple, howbeit they copy pasted the tithe for the Levit. That the early church leader did copy the tithe is true, concider this, the jew had to pay the tithe and the many other offerings he was complelled by the law. What then is the free, adopted Christian to do, is he showing his love for Jesus if he does less than what the law required? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted February 6, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 777 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,954 Content Per Day: 3.05 Reputation: 1,985 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 6, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, Who me said: That the early church leader did copy the tithe is true, concider this, the jew had to pay the tithe and the many other offerings he was complelled by the law. What then is the free, adopted Christian to do, is he showing his love for Jesus if he does less than what the law required? The God of the Bible never asked for people's money. Neither did the early church father ever demanded tithe as you said. Edited February 6, 2022 by R. Hartono Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appy Posted February 6, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 23 Topic Count: 133 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,864 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 2,596 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted February 6, 2022 The matter of money really seems to be of major importance to you. Whether you decide to give or not is between you and God. He fully understands when any of us don't have the means to make an offering. The important thing is that we see giving as a privilege and not a burden. It should not be out of a sense of duty, but rather out of love for the Lord and a desire to see His kingdom advanced. I don't know what denomination you attend, but do understand that not every denomination or church demands its members to tithe. Churches haves to pay bills just like everyone else. Utilities and supplies are NOT free. If a repairman is needed, they have to pay him for his services. Vehicles used to pick people up from their homes and bring them to church and then take them back home after services have to pay for the upkeep of the vehicles and fuel. It costs money to cook the food for the homeless, plus other expenses. Tithes and offerings help with all this. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who me Posted February 8, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,302 Content Per Day: 1.71 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted February 8, 2022 On 2/6/2022 at 12:30 AM, R. Hartono said: he God of the Bible never asked for people's money. Please read leviticus again, you will see that God did expect people to give, where do you think the idea of a tieth came from. Read the prophets as they sought to rebuild the temple and see the condemnation on those who did not give generously to the work ofGod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted February 8, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 777 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,954 Content Per Day: 3.05 Reputation: 1,985 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 8, 2022 On 2/6/2022 at 9:09 AM, appy said: The matter of money really seems to be of major importance to you. Whether you decide to give or not is between you and God. He fully understands when any of us don't have the means to make an offering. The important thing is that we see giving as a privilege and not a burden. It should not be out of a sense of duty, but rather out of love for the Lord and a desire to see His kingdom advanced. I don't know what denomination you attend, but do understand that not every denomination or church demands its members to tithe. Churches haves to pay bills just like everyone else. Utilities and supplies are NOT free. If a repairman is needed, they have to pay him for his services. Vehicles used to pick people up from their homes and bring them to church and then take them back home after services have to pay for the upkeep of the vehicles and fuel. It costs money to cook the food for the homeless, plus other expenses. Tithes and offerings help with all this. 3 hours ago, Who me said: Please read leviticus again, you will see that God did expect people to give, where do you think the idea of a tieth came from. Read the prophets as they sought to rebuild the temple and see the condemnation on those who did not give generously to the work ofGod. Tithe was never money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appy Posted February 8, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 23 Topic Count: 133 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,864 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 2,596 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted February 8, 2022 8 hours ago, R. Hartono said: Tithe was never money. I have the impression and picture, that your looking to find fault with money set aside to be given to the church because you feel the churches don't deserve the money. Mark 12 : 41 Jesus sat down opposite the place where the offerings were put and watched the crowd putting their money into the temple treasury. Many rich people threw in large amounts. We can see from the passage above, that money was indeed used to pay a “tithe”. The concept is there. Churches use the term “tithe” today to mean setting aside a certain amount of one’s income for God. Typically a tithe refers to a tenth of one’s income because the word literally means “tenth” but it is often generalized to mean any amount of money set aside for God. This money is traditionally given to the local church. The concept of setting aside a sum of money to be voluntarily given can certainly be found in the NT, not only for the purpose of helping others in need, but also for sharing in the work of spreading the gospel. 1 Corinthians 9 : 14 In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel. In the OT, the priests and Levites were not given land as the rest of the Israelite's were. Instead, they were given cities to live in, and in payment for their services in the temple, the tithes from the other tribes were given to them. The entire chapter of 1 Corinthians 9, Paul teaches the meaning and principle of giving a tithe / offering. Paul teaches that he does indeed have a right to receive some compensation from church members, even though he isn't demanding they do so. For he wanted them to do so voluntarily of their own accord, not under coercion. 1 Corinthians 9:7 Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. In summary, it is NOT wrong to give a tithe to a local church as a person feels led to, nor is it wrong for a church to ask for tithes / offerings / donations. I can't make the following statement any more clearer. The money you earn is at your disposal, to decide what to do with it. Just the same as other people. What you decide to do with your money is up to you. Whether to tithe or not is a personal decision between you and the Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted February 9, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 777 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,954 Content Per Day: 3.05 Reputation: 1,985 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 9, 2022 5 hours ago, appy said: I have the impression and picture, that your looking to find fault with money set aside to be given to the church because you feel the churches don't deserve the money. Mark 12 : 41 Jesus sat down opposite the place where the offerings were put and watched the crowd putting their money into the temple treasury. Many rich people threw in large amounts. We can see from the passage above, that money was indeed used to pay a “tithe”. The concept is there. Churches use the term “tithe” today to mean setting aside a certain amount of one’s income for God. Typically a tithe refers to a tenth of one’s income because the word literally means “tenth” but it is often generalized to mean any amount of money set aside for God. This money is traditionally given to the local church. The concept of setting aside a sum of money to be voluntarily given can certainly be found in the NT, not only for the purpose of helping others in need, but also for sharing in the work of spreading the gospel. 1 Corinthians 9 : 14 In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel. In the OT, the priests and Levites were not given land as the rest of the Israelite's were. Instead, they were given cities to live in, and in payment for their services in the temple, the tithes from the other tribes were given to them. The entire chapter of 1 Corinthians 9, Paul teaches the meaning and principle of giving a tithe / offering. Paul teaches that he does indeed have a right to receive some compensation from church members, even though he isn't demanding they do so. For he wanted them to do so voluntarily of their own accord, not under coercion. 1 Corinthians 9:7 Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. In summary, it is NOT wrong to give a tithe to a local church as a person feels led to, nor is it wrong for a church to ask for tithes / offerings / donations. I can't make the following statement any more clearer. The money you earn is at your disposal, to decide what to do with it. Just the same as other people. What you decide to do with your money is up to you. Whether to tithe or not is a personal decision between you and the Lord. 1 Cor 9:7 speaks about voluntary donation, its very clear, so why many churches still require tithe and Quoting the grashopper threat in Maleachy 3 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appy Posted February 12, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 23 Topic Count: 133 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,864 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 2,596 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted February 12, 2022 @R. Hartono I will answer the other post as I have time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appy Posted February 13, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 23 Topic Count: 133 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,864 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 2,596 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted February 13, 2022 @R. Hartono God expected the Israelites to provide for the needs of those who were serving in the temple and their families. It wasn't just for those who performed temple service, but also for those who paid the tithe. Everyone benefited from it. Not just a few select individuals. Those who were doing ministry work in the temple, were also ministering to the people. Malachi 3 was addressing the point that the Jews in his day, were not following the tithing system that was required of them by the law. In other words, they simply neglected to tithe overall. And because of that negligence the storehouses were empty. They didn't just bring food to the storehouses, but also other necessity's The tithes was not only a way to provide for those who had no other means of income, but also and more importantly, was instituted to teach us to put God first in our lives. When a person tithed, he was giving back to God. We can see from the passage in Luke 10 that the principle of meeting the needs of those who were doing ministry work was carried over into the NT. When Jesus sent the 72 other disciples into towns ahead of him, they were instructed to stay in someone's home and be provided for. From this we can see that more than food was provided. Scripture is silent on their duration of stay, but no doubt they stayed at the home for more than a single day. My point in highlighting this is to show that a pastor of a church, is working and does deserve a wage from his congregation. Luke 10:7 Stay there, eating and drinking whatever they give you, for the worker deserves his wages. In the above verse we see that Jesus expected those who were sent out, were also to be paid, through having their needs provided for. Those who were preaching were instructed to accept the hospitality offered to them. The instruction went in both directions, not just one. Jesus instructed those he sent out to take nothing with them. A rhetorical question to ask yourself..... do you really think those sent out by Jesus, only needed food and nothing else? Did they not also need a place to stay? And if they had other needs, it was to be provided for them by the town they served in. It is true, that a tithe is not the New Testament standard. But neither is it biblical to view the 10 percent, as belonging to God and 90 percent as yours to spend as you please. The New Testament teaching is, God owns it all. We merely manage it for Him. When we give, we are giving to God's work. A tithe then is suggested starting point. Giving an offering/tithe, brings joy both to the giver and to the person who receives the offering. The giver sees that God has accepted his offering. And he knows that God is using it to declare his good news. The person who receives it can be glad with him. For that person, the offering shows that God is providing for him. And they both can give thanks to God, together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted February 13, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 777 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,954 Content Per Day: 3.05 Reputation: 1,985 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 13, 2022 1 hour ago, appy said: @R. Hartono God expected the Israelites to provide for the needs of those who were serving in the temple and their families. It wasn't just for those who performed temple service, but also for those who paid the tithe. Everyone benefited from it. Not just a few select individuals. Those who were doing ministry work in the temple, were also ministering to the people. Malachi 3 was addressing the point that the Jews in his day, were not following the tithing system that was required of them by the law. In other words, they simply neglected to tithe overall. And because of that negligence the storehouses were empty. They didn't just bring food to the storehouses, but also other necessity's The tithes was not only a way to provide for those who had no other means of income, but also and more importantly, was instituted to teach us to put God first in our lives. When a person tithed, he was giving back to God. We can see from the passage in Luke 10 that the principle of meeting the needs of those who were doing ministry work was carried over into the NT. When Jesus sent the 72 other disciples into towns ahead of him, they were instructed to stay in someone's home and be provided for. From this we can see that more than food was provided. Scripture is silent on their duration of stay, but no doubt they stayed at the home for more than a single day. My point in highlighting this is to show that a pastor of a church, is working and does deserve a wage from his congregation. Luke 10:7 Stay there, eating and drinking whatever they give you, for the worker deserves his wages. In the above verse we see that Jesus expected those who were sent out, were also to be paid, through having their needs provided for. Those who were preaching were instructed to accept the hospitality offered to them. The instruction went in both directions, not just one. Jesus instructed those he sent out to take nothing with them. A rhetorical question to ask yourself..... do you really think those sent out by Jesus, only needed food and nothing else? Did they not also need a place to stay? And if they had other needs, it was to be provided for them by the town they served in. It is true, that a tithe is not the New Testament standard. But neither is it biblical to view the 10 percent, as belonging to God and 90 percent as yours to spend as you please. The New Testament teaching is, God owns it all. We merely manage it for Him. When we give, we are giving to God's work. A tithe then is suggested starting point. Giving an offering/tithe, brings joy both to the giver and to the person who receives the offering. The giver sees that God has accepted his offering. And he knows that God is using it to declare his good news. The person who receives it can be glad with him. For that person, the offering shows that God is providing for him. And they both can give thanks to God, together. The 72 disciples did not ask mandatory 10% of people's money like those present church pastors are doing. This nation is the largest followers of Arab religion and they know the church demand 10% but thats not true, God of the Bible never asked for money and those pastors will face God to answer. Tithe is one of the 613 Mitzvot of Torah, you took all or leave all n its commanded to the 12 tribes of Hebrew, not to church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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