Jump to content
plavious

Heaven when

Recommended Posts

21 hours ago, iamlamad said:

We have the testimony of many people who have been to heaven, seen the Holy City. It is now on a planet. It is a planet quite like earth, but NO BUGS. No sin. Just great peace. There are cities on this planet.  There are billions of humans there now, in spirit form. On this planet is a palace, most impressive. Flowing out of this palace is the River of Life. Inside the palace is the throne of God, from which the river of life originates.  Many believers have been there and seen it, then returned to tell. They all tell a very similar story.  Two or three people tell of different layers, as if stories on a building - but each layer has rivers, fountains, water falls, flowers, etc. One man got to visit several of these layers. 

You can believe the city is on in space. I will believe the city is on a planet in space. 

Shalom, iamlamad.

No, what YOU have are the "testimonies" of many people who have been oxygen deprived! They haven't "been to heaven, [having] seen the Holy City" or they'd STILL BE THERE! Sorry, but we don't NEED another "planet heaven!" We have the confidence in the prophecies of God's Word:

Psalm 72:1-17 (KJV)

1 {A Psalm for Solomon. [Deferred to David's "Seed"}

Give the king thy judgments, O God, and thy righteousness unto the king's son.

2 He shall judge thy people with righteousness, and thy poor with judgment.

3 The mountains shall bring peace to the people, and the little hills, by righteousness.

4 He shall judge the poor of the people, he shall save the children of the needy, and shall break in pieces the oppressor.

5 They shall fear thee as long as the sun and moon endure, throughout all generations. 

6 He shall come down like rain upon the mown grass: as showers that water the earth.

7 In his days shall the righteous flourish; and abundance of peace so long as the moon endureth.

8 He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth.

9 They that dwell in the wilderness shall bow before him; and his enemies shall lick the dust.

10 The kings of Tarshish and of the isles shall bring presents: the kings of Sheba and Seba shall offer gifts.

11 Yea, all kings shall fall down before him: all nations shall serve him.

12 For he shall deliver the needy when he crieth; the poor also, and him that hath no helper.

13 He shall spare the poor and needy, and shall save the souls of the needy.

14 He shall redeem their soul from deceit and violence: and precious shall their blood be in his sight.

15 And he shall live, and to him shall be given of the gold of Sheba: prayer also shall be made for him continually; and daily shall he be praised.

16 There shall be an handful of corn in the earth upon the top of the mountains; the fruit thereof shall shake like Lebanon: and theyof the city shall flourish like grass of the earth.

17 His name shall endure for ever: his name shall be continued as long as the sun: and men shall be blessed in him: all nations shall call him blessed.

Ecclesiastes 1:4 (KJV)

4One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.

Psalm 78:1-37 (KJV)

1 {Maschil of Ethan the Ezrahite.}

I will sing of the mercies of the LORD for ever: with my mouth will I make known thy faithfulness to all generations.

2 For I have said, Mercy shall be built up for ever: thy faithfulness shalt thou establish in the very heavens (skies).

3 I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant,

4 Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah.

5 And the heavens shall praise thy wonders, O LORD: thy faithfulness also in the congregation of the saints.

6 For who in the heaven can be compared unto the LORD? who among the sons of the mighty can be likened unto the LORD?

7 God is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints, and to be had in reverence of all them that are about him.

8 O LORD God of hosts, who is a strong LORD like unto thee? or to thy faithfulness round about thee?

9 Thou rulest the raging of the sea: when the waves thereof arise, thou stillest them.

10 Thou hast broken Rahab in pieces, as one that is slain; thou hast scattered thine enemies with thy strong arm.

11 The heavens are thine, the earth also is thine: as for the world and the fulness thereof, thou hast founded them.

12 The north and the south thou hast created them: Tabor and Hermon shall rejoice in thy name.

13 Thou hast a mighty arm: strong is thy hand, and high is thy right hand.

14 Justice and judgment are the habitation of thy throne: mercy and truth shall go before thy face.

15 Blessed is the people that know the joyful sound: they shall walk, O LORD, in the light of thy countenance.

16 In thy name shall they rejoice all the day: and in thy righteousness shall they be exalted.

17 For thou art the glory of their strength: and in thy favour our horn shall be exalted.

18 For the LORD is our defence; and the Holy One of Israel is our king.

19 Then thou spakest in vision to thy holy one, and saidst, I have laid help upon one that is mighty; I have exalted one chosen out of the people.

20 I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him:

21 With whom my hand shall be established: mine arm also shall strengthen him.

22 The enemy shall not exact upon him; nor the son of wickedness afflict him.

23 And I will beat down his foes before his face, and plague them that hate him.

24 But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted.

25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers.

26 He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation.

27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.

28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.

29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.

30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;

31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;

32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.

33 Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.

34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.

35 Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.

36 His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me.

37 It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah.

You trust your "eye-witness accounts" (without eyes, btw), and I'll trust God's Word.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Still Alive.

"Who's to say"? GOD'S to say! When God created this earth and its inhabitants, He pronounced them ALL "VERY GOOD!" (Gen. 1:31.) When a PERFECT God declares His own Work, the Creation, "ALL 'VERY GOOD,'" then that Creation is also PERFECT! Why would God change PERFECTION?! That's how the Creation came to be IMPERFECT, when the man (as two) changed perfection by disobeying God!

I think it is "perfect" for his purposes, but not perfect in the way most people think of "perfect".  I think interpreting "very good" as "perfect" is putting to fine a point on it. After all, if it was perfect, and God knew what we would do, and knew in the beginning that Jesus would have to die for our sins, then everything we do is, by definition, also perfect. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, iamlamad.

No, what YOU have are the "testimonies" of many people who have been oxygen deprived! They haven't "been to heaven, [having] seen the Holy City" or they'd STILL BE THERE! Sorry, but we don't NEED another "planet heaven!" We have the confidence in the prophecies of God's Word:

Psalm 72:1-17 (KJV)

1 {A Psalm for Solomon. [Deferred to David's "Seed"}

Give the king thy judgments, O God, and thy righteousness unto the king's son.

2 He shall judge thy people with righteousness, and thy poor with judgment.

3 The mountains shall bring peace to the people, and the little hills, by righteousness.

4 He shall judge the poor of the people, he shall save the children of the needy, and shall break in pieces the oppressor.

5 They shall fear thee as long as the sun and moon endure, throughout all generations. 

6 He shall come down like rain upon the mown grass: as showers that water the earth.

7 In his days shall the righteous flourish; and abundance of peace so long as the moon endureth.

8 He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth.

9 They that dwell in the wilderness shall bow before him; and his enemies shall lick the dust.

10 The kings of Tarshish and of the isles shall bring presents: the kings of Sheba and Seba shall offer gifts.

11 Yea, all kings shall fall down before him: all nations shall serve him.

12 For he shall deliver the needy when he crieth; the poor also, and him that hath no helper.

13 He shall spare the poor and needy, and shall save the souls of the needy.

14 He shall redeem their soul from deceit and violence: and precious shall their blood be in his sight.

15 And he shall live, and to him shall be given of the gold of Sheba: prayer also shall be made for him continually; and daily shall he be praised.

16 There shall be an handful of corn in the earth upon the top of the mountains; the fruit thereof shall shake like Lebanon: and theyof the city shall flourish like grass of the earth.

17 His name shall endure for ever: his name shall be continued as long as the sun: and men shall be blessed in him: all nations shall call him blessed.

Ecclesiastes 1:4 (KJV)

4One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.

Psalm 78:1-37 (KJV)

1 {Maschil of Ethan the Ezrahite.}

I will sing of the mercies of the LORD for ever: with my mouth will I make known thy faithfulness to all generations.

2 For I have said, Mercy shall be built up for ever: thy faithfulness shalt thou establish in the very heavens (skies).

3 I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant,

4 Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah.

5 And the heavens shall praise thy wonders, O LORD: thy faithfulness also in the congregation of the saints.

6 For who in the heaven can be compared unto the LORD? who among the sons of the mighty can be likened unto the LORD?

7 God is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints, and to be had in reverence of all them that are about him.

8 O LORD God of hosts, who is a strong LORD like unto thee? or to thy faithfulness round about thee?

9 Thou rulest the raging of the sea: when the waves thereof arise, thou stillest them.

10 Thou hast broken Rahab in pieces, as one that is slain; thou hast scattered thine enemies with thy strong arm.

11 The heavens are thine, the earth also is thine: as for the world and the fulness thereof, thou hast founded them.

12 The north and the south thou hast created them: Tabor and Hermon shall rejoice in thy name.

13 Thou hast a mighty arm: strong is thy hand, and high is thy right hand.

14 Justice and judgment are the habitation of thy throne: mercy and truth shall go before thy face.

15 Blessed is the people that know the joyful sound: they shall walk, O LORD, in the light of thy countenance.

16 In thy name shall they rejoice all the day: and in thy righteousness shall they be exalted.

17 For thou art the glory of their strength: and in thy favour our horn shall be exalted.

18 For the LORD is our defence; and the Holy One of Israel is our king.

19 Then thou spakest in vision to thy holy one, and saidst, I have laid help upon one that is mighty; I have exalted one chosen out of the people.

20 I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him:

21 With whom my hand shall be established: mine arm also shall strengthen him.

22 The enemy shall not exact upon him; nor the son of wickedness afflict him.

23 And I will beat down his foes before his face, and plague them that hate him.

24 But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted.

25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers.

26 He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation.

27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.

28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.

29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.

30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;

31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;

32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.

33 Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.

34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.

35 Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.

36 His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me.

37 It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah.

You trust your "eye-witness accounts" (without eyes, btw), and I'll trust God's Word.

OF COURSE Human spirits have eyes! Did you forget about the story of the rich man and Lazarus? 

If Christian testimony agrees with the written word of God, WHY NOT believe it? We have the more sure word written, but we also have MANY personal testimonies of those who  have been there and returned. 

Agreed: most people who have been there want to stay, but if a believer is praying for them to come to life again, they really don't have a choice.  God will send them back to their bodies. 

Did you not read of the pastor in Africa that died in a car crash, while planning how to get even with his wife for slapping him? He was taken to hell, and the angel who took him told him, "if God allowed to you stay dead, here is where you would be."  He was offended! He had been a pastor for years! Then the angel reminded him that he died without forgiving his wife! 

His body was taken the the morgue.  It was put in a casket and taken to his family. His wife got some friends and STOLE his dead body, dead now 3 days if I remember right, and she took the dead body to a Rhinehard Bonnke meeting.  His body was taken to the basement and much prayer was made: he came back to life. It is on video! Look up Nigerian pastor Daniel Ekechukwu.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Still Alive said:

I think it is "perfect" for his purposes, but not perfect in the way most people think of "perfect".  I think interpreting "very good" as "perfect" is putting to fine a point on it. After all, if it was perfect, and God knew what we would do, and knew in the beginning that Jesus would have to die for our sins, then everything we do is, by definition, also perfect. 

Shalom, Still Alive.

Well, not precisely. We ARE in God's perfect plan for this world; however, we may still sin. Knowing that we will sin, He PLANNED for it, despite the sin, and it's His PLAN that is perfect, not the individuals within His plan, and CERTAINLY not their sins!

Let me also say, that this is God's PLAN we're talking about, not His WILL. God's WILL - what God WANTS - is our SANCTIFICATION! He wants us to be HOLY (singled out, unique) and RIGHTEOUS! However, righteous or not, we have no choice but to be a part of His PLAN. A saying I grew up with is "Did it ever occur to you that nothing has ever occurred to God?" God TELLS us what His Will is, but God does NOT tell us everything about His PLAN! It's not our business! He only reveals part of His PLAN in His prophecies.

  • Thumbs Up 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, iamlamad said:

OF COURSE Human spirits have eyes! Did you forget about the story of the rich man and Lazarus? 

If Christian testimony agrees with the written word of God, WHY NOT believe it? We have the more sure word written, but we also have MANY personal testimonies of those who  have been there and returned. 

Agreed: most people who have been there want to stay, but if a believer is praying for them to come to life again, they really don't have a choice.  God will send them back to their bodies. 

Did you not read of the pastor in Africa that died in a car crash, while planning how to get even with his wife for slapping him? He was taken to hell, and the angel who took him told him, "if God allowed to you stay dead, here is where you would be."  He was offended! He had been a pastor for years! Then the angel reminded him that he died without forgiving his wife! 

His body was taken the the morgue.  It was put in a casket and taken to his family. His wife got some friends and STOLE his dead body, dead now 3 days if I remember right, and she took the dead body to a Rhinehard Bonnke meeting.  His body was taken to the basement and much prayer was made: he came back to life. It is on video! Look up Nigerian pastor Daniel Ekechukwu.

yea, let God be true, but every man a liar (Romans 3:4). Stick to the Scriptures; we can rely on them. I wouldn't trust these "eye-witness (without their real eyes) accounts!"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

yea, let God be true, but every man a liar (Romans 3:4). Stick to the Scriptures; we can rely on them. I wouldn't trust these "eye-witness (without their real eyes) accounts!"

Several people were raised from the dead in scriptures. Our God is the SAME God today as He was then.  Where is your faith? God is still in the miracle business.

Edited by iamlamad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Still Alive.

Well, not precisely. We ARE in God's perfect plan for this world; however, we may still sin. Knowing that we will sin, He PLANNED for it, despite the sin, and it's His PLAN that is perfect, not the individuals within His plan, and CERTAINLY not their sins!

Let me also say, that this is God's PLAN we're talking about, not His WILL. God's WILL - what God WANTS - is our SANCTIFICATION! He wants us to be HOLY (singled out, unique) and RIGHTEOUS! However, righteous or not, we have no choice but to be a part of His PLAN. A saying I grew up with is "Did it ever occur to you that nothing has ever occurred to God?" God TELLS us what His Will is, but God does NOT tell us everything about His PLAN! It's not our business! He only reveals part of His PLAN in His prophecies.

I like it: nothing ever "occurs" to God! Ha!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Several people were raised from the dead in scriptures. Our God is the SAME God today as He was then.  Where is your faith? God is still in the miracle business.

Shalom, iamlamad.

Yes, He is! However, WHY were the dead raised? It's NOT because God was just "trying to be a great Guy!"

Have you ever considered this relationship revealed in the Bible?

Matthew 4:23-25 (KJV)

23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom (Greek: didaskoon en tais sunagoogais autoon kai keerussoon to euaggelion tees basileias), and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

24 And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them. 25 And there followed him great multitudes of people from Galilee, and from Decapolis, and from Jerusalem, and from Judaea, and from beyond Jordan.

didaskoon = teaching
en = in
tais = the
sunagoogais = synagogues
autoon = of-them
kai = and/also
keerussoon = heralding
to = the
euaggelion = good-news
tees = of-the
basileias = Kingdom

There is a DIRECT LINK between the teaching and heralding of the Good News of the Kingdom and the miracles that Yeshua` performed!

The miracles were God's (Yeshua`s Father's) way of AUTHENTICATING and ENDORSING His Son's teachings and heralding of the Kingdom's good news! They also FULFILLED the Scriptures, as Yeshua` noted:

Luke 4:14-21 (KJV)

14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about. 15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.

16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. 17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias (Greek: Eesaiou [genitive of Eesaias pronounced "ay-sah-ee'-as"] = Hebrew: Yeesha'yah = English: Isaiah). And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

18 "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach (herald) the gospel (good news) to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord." (Isaiah 61:1-2a)

20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21 And he began to say unto them,

"This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears."

(When reading God's Word, just sit back and ENJOY the reading, as though reading it for the first time! Take it slow and take it all in! Don't try to figure out how it fits in to what you believe; simply listen to what the author is trying to say!) His quotation was taken from the following:

Isaiah 61:1-11 (KJV)

1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD (or to proclaim the year for accepting the LORD), and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.

4 And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.

5 And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers.

6 But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.

7 For your shame ye shall have double; and for confusion they shall rejoice in their portion: therefore in their land they shall possess the double: everlasting joy shall be unto them.

8 For I the LORD (God, the Father of Yeshua`) love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them.

9 And their seed shall be known among the Gentiles, and their offspring among the people: all that see them shall acknowledge them, that they are the seed which the LORD hath blessed.

10 I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.

11 For as the earth bringeth forth her bud, and as the garden causeth the things that are sown in it to spring forth; so the Lord GOD will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before all the nations.

By stopping early (halfway through verse 2), He was saying that much was fulfilled, but not the rest ... YET!

Mark 1:14-15 (KJV)

14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel (heralding the good news) of the kingdom of God, 15 And saying,

"The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand (within your grasp): repent ye (turn 180 degrees around), and believe the gospel (good news)."

So, unless one is heralding God's Kingdom's good news, there's no reason for God to authenticate or endorse what one is saying with the performance of a miracle, particularly raising one from the dead! God doesn't perform miracles on a whim, like some trained seal!

Furthermore, this "good news," this "gospel of the Kingdom," is NOT "the death, burial, and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ!" How many people at this time in the "Gospels" even KNEW that Yeshua` was to die, let alone would ACCEPT it! Fooey, they didn't even know that He was God's Messiah - God's Christ - at this time!

My faith - My TRUST - is in God; that's where my faith is! As I said, miracles are, AT BEST, TEMPORARY! These "resurrections" are NOT like Yeshua`s Resurrection, who was the Firstfruits of the PERMANENT Resurrection! (1 Cor. 15:20-28.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/15/2019 at 9:55 AM, iamlamad said:

OF COURSE Human spirits have eyes! Did you forget about the story of the rich man and Lazarus? 

If Christian testimony agrees with the written word of God, WHY NOT believe it? We have the more sure word written, but we also have MANY personal testimonies of those who  have been there and returned. 

Agreed: most people who have been there want to stay, but if a believer is praying for them to come to life again, they really don't have a choice.  God will send them back to their bodies. 

Did you not read of the pastor in Africa that died in a car crash, while planning how to get even with his wife for slapping him? He was taken to hell, and the angel who took him told him, "if God allowed to you stay dead, here is where you would be."  He was offended! He had been a pastor for years! Then the angel reminded him that he died without forgiving his wife! 

His body was taken the the morgue.  It was put in a casket and taken to his family. His wife got some friends and STOLE his dead body, dead now 3 days if I remember right, and she took the dead body to a Rhinehard Bonnke meeting.  His body was taken to the basement and much prayer was made: he came back to life. It is on video! Look up Nigerian pastor Daniel Ekechukwu.

Shalom, iamlamad.

First, let's look at the parable of the rich man and Elezar ("Lazarus"). To do this, one must go back a few verses, at least. The whole account begins in chapter 15, verse 1. Yeshua` had received the publicans and sinners - the outcasts of society, and the P'rushiym ("Pharisees") and the transcribers of the Torah, generally accepted to be the scholars and experts on the Bible, had noticed and commented on their disgust. So, Yeshua` gave them a few parables to correct their thinking:

First, He gave them the parable of the man who lost one sheep out of 100 he owned and how he left the 99 to find the one, and rejoiced when he had found it! The 99 were never lost in the first place.

Then, He gave them the parable of the woman who had 10 silver pieces and searched for a missing piece, and when she found it, she rejoiced with her friends! The 9 pieces were never lost in the first place.

Then, He gave them the parable of the prodigal son. The son finally came humbly home and his father welcomed him back, while his brother who never left his father did not.

In all three, something was lost and was found, and the one who had lost them, was rejoicing at the find. That which was lost represented the publicans and sinners! That which was not lost was everyone else in Israel, including the P'rushiym and the transcribers of the Torah, and these leaders were also represented by the brother who never left.

Then, He gave them the parable of the unjust steward, a man who mismanaged his master's affairs, was caught in the act, and cushioned the blow he knew was coming by giving his master's creditors a break that would make him a welcome guest in the future. This was a warning to these leaders to act wisely before the hammer falls. We pick up the story here:

Luke 16:10-31 (KJV)

10 "He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much. 11 If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches? 12 And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own? 13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon."

14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him. 15 And he said unto them (the P'rushiym or Pharisees),

"Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

16 "The law and the prophets (collectively the Tanakh, the whole Bible they had at the time) were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached (heralded), and every man presseth into it (pushes to get in). 17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle (a hook on a Hebrew letter to distinguish it from another) of the law (the Torah) to fail.

18 "Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.

19 "There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 And in hell (Greek: en too hadee = "in the unseen" or "in the unknown") he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said,

"'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.'

25 "But Abraham said,

"'Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.'

27 "Then he said,

"'I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.'

29 "Abraham saith unto him,

"'They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.'

30 "And he said,

"'Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.'

31 "And he said unto him,

"'If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.'"

I should also mention that the rich man and Elezar ("Lazarus") is frequently misunderstood. The timing of this parable is NOT between death and the Resurrection; it's AFTER the Resurrection!

The word used for "hell" in verse 23 is "hadee," the dative form of "hadees":

86 hadees (hah'-dace). From a (as negative particle) and eidoo; properly, unseen, i.e. "Hades" or the place (state) of departed souls
-- grave, hell.

Greek uses a backward apostrophe called "rough breathing" over a vowel (or the second vowel in a diphthong) at the beginning of a word that we equate with an "h" sound in translation. Thus, in Greek it is spelled "alpha-delta-eta-sigma."

1492 eidoo (i'-do). A primary verb; used only in certain past tenses, the others being borrowed from the equivalent optanomai and horaoo; properly, to see (literally or figuratively); by implication, (in the perfect tense only) to know
-- be aware, behold, X can (+ not tell), consider, (have) know(-ledge), look (on), perceive, see, be sure, tell, understand, wish, wot. Compare optanomai.

3700 optanomai (op-tan'-om-ahee). A (middle voice [a specific form of passive voice]) prolonged form of the primary (middle voice) optomai (op'-tom-ahee); which is used for it in certain tenses; and both as alternate of horaoo; to gaze (i.e. With wide-open eyes, as at something remarkable; and thus differing from blepoo, which denotes simply voluntary observation; and from eidoo, which expresses merely mechanical, passive or casual vision; while theaomai, and still more emphatically its intensive theoreoo, signifies an earnest but more continued inspection; and skopeoo a watching from a distance)
-- appear, look, see, shew self.

3708 horaoo (hor-ah'-o). Properly, to stare at (compare optanomai), i.e. (by implication) to discern clearly (physically or mentally); by extension, to attend to; by Hebraism, to experience; passively, to appear
-- behold, perceive, see, take heed.

Despite the Greek influence on the usage of this word, including Greek mythology in which the Romans used the Latin equivalent "Pluto," the word itself is a word that is equivalent to what we call "the unknown."

This man, the rich man, had his eyes. He had his feeling sensors in his skin such that he could be tormented in flame. He had his tongue. He had his ears to hear Avraham's response. He had his voice to call out to Avraham.

This isn't evidence that "human spirits have eyes"; it's evidence that he was alive as a human body! He was already resurrected! That makes MUCH more sense than "human spirits have eyes!"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...