Spock Posted March 21, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 21, 2019 (edited) What if....... ....thewhole world is able to witness the peace treaty/covenant confirmed, the temple being rebuilt, and the resuming of daily sacrifices in Jerusalem. Do you think if that happens you might then be more open-minded to seeing Rev 12:5 the way I have on this thread? For those who missed the thread, and it is long, I have proposed a near mid point rapture (3 years into the week) almost solely based on one verse, Rev 12:5. Because I believe 12:6 to be at the midpoint of the week (3.5 yrs) I went ahead and put the rapture at 1/2 year before that point. I did not have a biblical basis for putting it there just as no one else has any biblical basis for where they put the rapture (with the possible exception of the post tribbers who place the rapture at the second coming.) I also want to remind everyone, this is an EXPLORATORY thread. I’m using you to convince me my PROPOSED timeline deserves to be trashed. Edited March 21, 2019 by Spock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Light Posted March 21, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,078 Content Per Day: 1.11 Reputation: 201 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/17/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted March 21, 2019 (edited) Hi Spock, I'm not following how you draw that conclusion. There is nothing in those verses or the surrounding verses that would lead me to believe that they are talking about the second coming of Christ (when he returns to set up his kingdom on earth). Can you provide any scriptural evidence that these verses are talking about the second coming of Christ. I'm confident since you are Spock that you have facts and logic. Thanks Edited March 21, 2019 by The Light clarifacation 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Light Posted March 21, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,078 Content Per Day: 1.11 Reputation: 201 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/17/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted March 21, 2019 Hey LA, Of course I don't mind if you comment. I did notice WHERE. From the four winds of the earth and from the ends of heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted March 21, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 266 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,200 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,497 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted March 21, 2019 7 hours ago, iamlamad said: Marilyn, when discussing scripture, we must do our best to arrive at the absolute best translation into English. Sorry, I quoted scripture but did not make it clear. I did a poor job with that post. Here is Young's literal translation: Joel 3:15 Sun and moon have been black, And stars have gathered up their shining. This gets to another important point in discussing points of doctrine: Hebrew as a language is no where near as precise a language as either Greek or English. Because of this, it is unwise to build doctrine based on Old Testament scripture alone. Build doctrine from the New Testament as much as is possible, and then fill in missing pieces from the Old. Case in point? This verse in Joel really does not say what you thought it said. Another wise point: if one passage has 4,000 words on a subject, and another has only 20, then learn doctrine from the most complete passage and again, fill in missing pieces from the smallest passage. Case in Point: Daniel has 9:27 - one verse - on the 70th week, while Revelation has 9 chapters! Wisdom then would dictate that we learn doctrine from Revelation FIRST, and then fill in missing points from other scriptures. Hi iamlamad, Thank you for your clarification. As to learning doctrine, eg Dan. 70th week, we need to know a lot of background information from God`s word - Who Israel is, what God`s purpose is for them, why they need to have this 70 x 7 `weeks,` and what is God`s ultimate purpose for them, in time and in eternity. So more to know than just what the Hew Testament tells us. Marilyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted March 21, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 266 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,200 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,497 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted March 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Spock said: I did not have a biblical basis for putting it there just as no one else has any biblical basis for where they put the rapture (with the possible exception of the post tribbers who place the rapture at the second coming.) I also want to remind everyone, this is an EXPLORATORY thread. I’m using you to convince me my PROPOSED timeline deserves to be trashed. Hi Spock, I have said to you, previously, that I do have a biblical basis for the rapture, when the Lord comes for His Body. You didn`t take me up, so I have tried to work with you regarding your thoughts and make comments on those. BTW have you any comments on all the points I made regarding yours? Marilyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted March 21, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 21, 2019 12 minutes ago, Marilyn C said: Hi Spock, I have said to you, previously, that I do have a biblical basis for the rapture, when the Lord comes for His Body. You didn`t take me up, so I have tried to work with you regarding your thoughts and make comments on those. BTW have you any comments on all the points I made regarding yours? Marilyn. Hi M., No further rebuttal necessary. I would like to read your study showing the biblical basis for the timing of the rapture being pre Trib. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted March 21, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 266 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,200 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,497 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted March 21, 2019 26 minutes ago, Spock said: Hi M., No further rebuttal necessary. I would like to read your study showing the biblical basis for the timing of the rapture being pre Trib. Thanks. Ok Spock, Am going out today, but will prepare notes. Now we need to remember that when looking at this topic and others, that a certain amount of information from scripture is needed. These just don`t lie on the top of God`s word like `the man walked down the street.` So I will take you through what I was taught from scripture, with background information. That is needed to understand the scripture that pin points the time when the Lord descends for His Body. Marilyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted March 21, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 21, 2019 1 hour ago, The Light said: Hi Spock, I'm not following how you draw that conclusion. There is nothing in those verses or the surrounding verses that would lead me to believe that they are talking about the second coming of Christ (when he returns to set up his kingdom on earth). Can you provide any scriptural evidence that these verses are talking about the second coming of Christ. I'm confident since you are Spock that you have facts and logic. Thanks Hi Light, i think I know where you are going with this. You believe that is a rapture passage and this proves the rapture is IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION, thus the rapture is post Trib. Am I right? If so, I don’t mean to be rude here, but I don’t want to discuss post Trib on this thread. And I’m not interested in convincing you to not be post Trib. If you are such, I’m happy for you. I’m sure you have studied hard to get to that point. I love posties just as much as I love prebbies, but I just don’t want this very “special” thread to be bogged down with postie vs prebbie talk, like many of them do. There are plenty of threads doing that if you want to get into a good debate on that topic. I’m too old for that..... I prefer people to show me why my proposed timeline should be discarded as rubbish, and not by showing me that the rapture is post Trib according to the Bible. Sorry for being blunt....not offense intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted March 21, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, Marilyn C said: Ok Spock, Am going out today, but will prepare notes. Now we need to remember that when looking at this topic and others, that a certain amount of information from scripture is needed. These just don`t lie on the top of God`s word like `the man walked down the street.` So I will take you through what I was taught from scripture, with background information. That is needed to understand the scripture that pin points the time when the Lord descends for His Body. Marilyn. Great. This should be a formidable test to see if my proposed timeline cuts it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Light Posted March 21, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,078 Content Per Day: 1.11 Reputation: 201 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/17/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted March 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Spock said: Hi Light, i think I know where you are going with this. You believe that is a rapture passage and this proves the rapture is IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION, thus the rapture is post Trib. Am I right? If so, I don’t mean to be rude here, but I don’t want to discuss post Trib on this thread. And I’m not interested in convincing you to not be post Trib. If you are such, I’m happy for you. I’m sure you have studied hard to get to that point. I love posties just as much as I love prebbies, but I just don’t want this very “special” thread to be bogged down with postie vs prebbie talk, like many of them do. There are plenty of threads doing that if you want to get into a good debate on that topic. I’m too old for that..... I prefer people to show me why my proposed timeline should be discarded as rubbish, and not by showing me that the rapture is post Trib according to the Bible. Sorry for being blunt....not offense intended. Well Spock, no offense taken at all. I told you that I read about half the posts so I was well aware that you were not interested in talking about a post trib rapture. To clear things up I believe in a pretribulation rapture. You say you are interested in people that can show your timeline is rubbish. I’d like a shot at that. I wouldn’t even try, except you go by the name of Spock. That means facts and logic, proof and truth. So Mr Spock can you provide any scriptural proof that the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 is when Jesus comes to set up His kingdom on earth. If you can I would certainly like to see it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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