How many Christian Denominations are there?

[Guest bastion]

Ok, then name a Christian who lived after the Apostolic era ended and before the great schism, who you think was part of the right bunch of folks. That's about 950 years you have to work with.

Edited June 2, 2005 by bastion

[Pax]

Bastion, what are you considering the great schism? I would consider the Reformation the great schism which started around 1530 by Martin Luther. I also wouldn't call it the "right bunch of folks."

[Assisi]

Assisi,

No i learned the truth the hard way while on other boards like this one. When my faith was challenged i search the early Church and found that all Catholic beliefs were in place within a generation of the Apostle John. Protestants have helped me confirm my faith.

Is that

[Assisi]

Assisi,

No i learned the truth the hard way while on other boards like this one. When my faith was challenged i search the early Church and found that all Catholic beliefs were in place within a generation of the Apostle John. Protestants have helped me confirm my faith.

Is that

[Pax]

horizoneast: Yes, I have studied the Cathecism of the Catholic Church upon converting. I spent much time, thought, and prayer before converting to the Church. I am telling you like I have told many Protestants if any Catholic tells you that you, or anyone else is going to hell because they are not Catholic, than they are not either not telling the truth, or they are misled. The point you have made about salvation is one that often comes up and many people misinturpret what the Church is saying. No salvation outside of the Church is a tough subject to understand, but I will explain it to you the best and most direct way I can. First of all I want to commend you on knowing about the Fourth Lateran Council, and the Bull Unam Santam. This tells me that you a fallen away Catholic, maybe even a Priest. This is one area that I struggeled with during the conversion, but look at the history at this time. Pope Boniface VIII was dealing with many heresies at the time. He could also sense the Reformation, so he wrote the Bull Unam Sanctam as a very strong response to the times. He was a very absolute Pope. But as I mentioned earlier the Catholic Church has a central understanding of doctrine, but this understanding can broaden, and deepen. Look at what was said during Vatican II on this topic. Use the universal Catechism not the Baltimore Catechism. The Universal Catechism is what the Vatican recognizes. The Baltimore Catechism was only used in the United States as a teaching tool, manily for poor Catholic immigrants.

"The Second Vatican Council's Decree on Ecumenism explains: "For it is through Christ's Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help towards salvation , that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in anyway to the People of God."

So you can tell from this that the doctrine has broadened and deepened since 1302. Something to remember about Catholic doctrine is that, the Church can understand doctrine better, but can't contradict original doctrine. When I was converting the Priest told me that a person can't rightly say who is going to hell and who isn't. As Catholics we can't say whether or not John Paul II is going to heaven. Obviously this was before he passed away. Now we can have a pretty good idea he is going to heaven, but we can't say for sure. I hope this helps out.

[Assisi]

PAX,

Pax - either you are totally ignorant of your RCC heritage or you are being very deceptive. As well versed as you appear to be in RCC dogma I must believe it is the latter. I would ask you to review your church

[Guest bastion]

Bastion, what are you considering the great schism?  I would consider the Reformation the great schism which started around 1530 by Martin Luther. I also wouldn't call it the "right bunch of folks."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Great Schism happened in 1054 when the Orthodox broke away from the Catholic Church. My point was for horizoneast, who said things like the Catholic Church is apostate and that there is another true church (which I assume never went apostate and is numbered by those faithful to Christ and his teachings and the apostles), to name somone out of his "right bunch of folks" or "true church " who was around from about the year 100 to 1050 a.d. The point being that noone can name one as they don't exist. There were only Catholics and shortlived heretical sects(during the time period from the death of the last apostle and the Great Schism) and to think otherwise is irrational.

[Pax]

Good point Bastion. Assisi, I would like to commend you on your knowledge, you know more than I, but I am learning. Horizoneast I would also like to commend you and I would love to know about your background. You seem very knowledgeable and you bring up some good questions and comments about the Catholic church.

[Guest yod]

Pax,Jun 1 2005, 05:34 PM

yod:  You never answered my question of why the Jewish faith doesn't acknowledge the new testament. 

Jews wrote the New Testament.

While most jews did not receive him, the original church was exclusively jewish for a half century.

Why don't all jews see Him as Messiah? Probably the same reason all gentiles don't.

Hardness of heart and/or they've never been shown the REAL one.

Didn't Paul play a large part in the new Testament?  He talks about Jesus Christ over and over and again. 

Yep...Rabbi Shaul writes a large part of the New Covenant scriptures. What is your point?

Also wasn't Paul a Jew who persucuted early Christians until he was struck by lightening? 

Who told you he was struck by lightning?

Then he converted to Christianity.  His name was Sol as a Jew and then changed to Paul as he became a Christian. 

NO.....ABSOLUTELY NOT.

Paul never "converted" to another religion. Why should he? This is the fulfillment of bilbical judaism.

Jesus didn't come to start a new religion and neither did Paul

God didn't switch to Plan B when the nation of Israel refused her rightful King. That was all part of the plan to bring salvation to the nations (gentiles). The jews refused the covenant of being a nation of kings and priests at Mt Sinai....and the gentiles believers were usurped of this at Rome.

Your right God didn't start a new religion, its just that the Jews stopped with the old Testament.  They don't believe that Jesus Christ was God.  The Catholic Church started in 33 A.D. and yes you are correct it wasn't called Catholic until later.

The institution of the Catholic Church didn't start until 327 AD. They would like to claim an earlier date but there is no proof that anyone from the ORIGINAL church was allowed to participate...and so you have a fraud being perpetrated to control the masses....to "lord it over" the gentiles.

But do you know what the word Catholic means???  Let me help you, it means Universal. 

I can call myself the King of China but that doesn't make it so. This is what I mean by circular logic.

Which means one Universal Church as backed up in scripture.

I agree....but the Universal Church has nothing to do with the institution known as the Catholic church except that there are some members of the Universal Church who go to a Catholic church.

  But this is hard for you to  believe when you don't accept the New Testament. 

What gives you that idea? I read the New Testament in the context of the whole Bible...and without religious blinders on.

I'm sorry you grew up with bad Catholicism,

is there another kind of "religion" that is any better??? I'm just not into religion since I've been born again.

So now I won't stand for any religious institution that wishes to become my Lord and King. No matter what religious label is on it. Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddist, whatever....

Yuck. phhttt!!

Jesus is all I need.

When I find someone willing to die for me like He did, I'll know they are working under His full power and authority.

But kiss the ring because you have a funny hat?

I don't think so......

[Guest bastion]

Bastion,

The Great Schism happened in 1054 when the Orthodox broke away from the Catholic Church.

Bastion