Tigger56 Posted May 9, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 679 Topics Per Day: 0.36 Content Count: 1,327 Content Per Day: 0.70 Reputation: 992 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/04/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 9, 2019 16 hours ago, Neighbor said: Because: Mormons, The Church of Latter Day Saints declare they believe in Jesus. They belong to a cult and they do not believe in Jesus of the Bible. It is a different jesus that they proclaim. In my limited knowledge of the Mormons, I feel I will have to agree that they are a cult. They definitely leave the clear word of God. I have no problem with material other than the Bible as long as it is hand in hand with the word of God, in harmony. Much that is written in commentaries are men's opinions that take verses and attempt to enlighten (sometimes they confuse). I rarely look at a commentary as I view it simply as another man's opinion and feel the Lord can reveal as I read and study. In that context we all believe in written knowledge and revealed knowledge, but when people write their own Bible, then there is definitely a problem. As to believing in a different Jesus, that could be accused of many when beliefs differ. I believe many choose verses and examples of our Lord to fit their ideology. I understand that we build verse by verse, precept upon precept, but the danger is when many ignore entire sections of a chapter in the Bible, or ignore other scriptures or ignore context of why something is being said just so they can justify a certain belief. That in itself doesn't imply a cult it just shows a reason behind many differing doctrines or interpretation of what the Lord says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted May 9, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 961 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,701 Content Per Day: 5.04 Reputation: 9,102 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted May 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Tigger56 said: I believe many choose verses and examples of our Lord to fit their ideology. Hi, May I suggest that verses are commentary in of themselves! They are the work of a man, and not God. The separating out the record of God's reveal of Jesus, the Bible, into chapters, phrases, and verses, is not inspired; but is diligent effort of a man to make comparison between scholars easier. The unfortunate result is often the full Bible text is not read and the verse, the phrase, or passage, becomes isolated from it's surround and gets mistakenly used to justify what it was never intended to be applaied to by it's original author (It becomes pretext without context). Personally ,I use as many commentaries as I can get my hands and my mind on! Because,- they are written by scholars that have understanding of the original languages, have linguistic skills that I lack, their greater knowledge usually born of much effort by them then becomes available to me. The Holy Spirit will then aid me as I read the word of God the Bible ignoring all those diversions those verse numberings, and mid chapter headline summaries. I then can just read for the joy of the writing inspired by God for man to have written for my enlightenment today. And the lightbulb of wisdom comes in an ahha moment. I wish i had known that before, I will be better prepared next time. Thank You Lord is my praise along with my appreciation for the individuals God has used to provide me with commentaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Bought 1953 Posted May 9, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,726 Content Per Day: 2.86 Reputation: 6,258 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 9, 2019 19 minutes ago, Tigger56 said: In my limited knowledge of the Mormons, I feel I will have to agree that they are a cult. They definitely leave the clear word of God. I have no problem with material other than the Bible as long as it is hand in hand with the word of God, in harmony. Much that is written in commentaries are men's opinions that take verses and attempt to enlighten (sometimes they confuse). I rarely look at a commentary as I view it simply as another man's opinion and feel the Lord can reveal as I read and study. In that context we all believe in written knowledge and revealed knowledge, but when people write their own Bible, then there is definitely a problem. As to believing in a different Jesus, that could be accused of many when beliefs differ. I believe many choose verses and examples of our Lord to fit their ideology. I understand that we build verse by verse, precept upon precept, but the danger is when many ignore entire sections of a chapter in the Bible, or ignore other scriptures or ignore context of why something is being said just so they can justify a certain belief. That in itself doesn't imply a cult it just shows a reason behind many differing doctrines or interpretation of what the Lord says. Roman Catholic Doctrine came from Hell.....I don’t know if that makes it a cult or not .It’s probably something worse. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigger56 Posted May 9, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 679 Topics Per Day: 0.36 Content Count: 1,327 Content Per Day: 0.70 Reputation: 992 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/04/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Neighbor said: Hi, May I suggest that verses are commentary in of themselves! They are the work of a man, and not God. The separating out the record of God's reveal of Jesus, the Bible, into chapters, phrases, and verses, is not inspired; but is diligent effort of a man to make comparison between scholars easier. The unfortunate result is often the full Bible text is not read and the verse, the phrase, or passage, becomes isolated from it's surround and gets mistakenly used to justify what it was never intended to be applaied to by it's original author (It becomes pretext without context). Personally ,I use as many commentaries as I can get my hands and my mind on! Because,- they are written by scholars that have understanding of the original languages, have linguistic skills that I lack, their greater knowledge usually born of much effort by them then becomes available to me. The Holy Spirit will then aid me as I read the word of God the Bible ignoring all those diversions those verse numberings, and mid chapter headline summaries. I then can just read for the joy of the writing inspired by God for man to have written for my enlightenment today. And the lightbulb of wisdom comes in an ahha moment. I wish i had known that before, I will be better prepared next time. Thank You Lord is my praise along with my appreciation for the individuals God has used to provide me with commentaries. I agree that man separated the Bible into verses, they also likely changed the order of some of the books, actually I know they did. I use "Strong's Concordance" more than anything else as a reference to original word meaning and texts. My most valued commentary is "Bullingers". But I do not rely upon another man's opinion in commentaries. Sometimes they give me something to ponder, sometimes they reveal, but often I approach them with extreme caution, for no matter how well learned, no matter how scholarly, I have know people with many degrees without the common sense to come out of the rain. I trust in revelation from the Lord as he guides to understanding depending upon precept upon precept and line upon line. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted May 9, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 961 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,701 Content Per Day: 5.04 Reputation: 9,102 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted May 9, 2019 37 minutes ago, Tigger56 said: I have know people with many degrees without the common sense to come out of the rain. God has blessed me with so many fine examples of scholarship in individuals that not only know to come in out of the rain , they will bring as many as they can in with them. I am truly blessed to have known them, many to this day. Talk about being humbled, and yet so advantaged at the same time, wow it has been such a grand privilege. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James93 Posted May 10, 2019 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 9 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/07/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted May 10, 2019 (edited) Usually a non mainstream religion often spinning off from a mainstream religion. I think it has a lot of exploitative and horrible connotations, but I think those are only true of a fraction of what you could consider cults. Gnosticism, Mormonism, Jehovas witnesses, are all what I would consider "christian cults" they aren't exactly teaching the bible, but they base their beliefs on some teachings of the bible, and have a lot fewer followers. The Peoples Temple could also be considered a cult spun off of christianity, and I think that's what people think of more often. Historically I also think of things like "the cult of aphrodite" and other various non mainstream spin offs that have been happening for millennia. Edited May 10, 2019 by James93 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Marsh Posted May 10, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 126 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,090 Content Per Day: 0.57 Reputation: 501 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/03/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/15/1956 Share Posted May 10, 2019 Joseph Smith stated: God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man . . . I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea . . . God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did; . . . you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you . . . (History of the Church, vol. 6, ch. 14, pp. 305-6). LDS President Brigham Young declared that God was once a finite being: It appears ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous traditions, that God has once been a finite being. (Deseret News, Nov. 16, 1859, p. 290) LDS Apostle Melvin Ballard explained that God has a wife: "For as we have a Father in heaven, so also we have a Mother there, a glorified, exalted, ennobled Mother." (As quoted in Achieving a Celestial Marriage, LDS Church manual, 1976, p. 129)http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/ldschurchleadersdeclarechristianitytotalapostasy.htm The LDS scriptures declare that the ultimate goal of a Mormon is to become a god and procreate for all eternity. The Doctrine & Covenants states: 19 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, ...Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; ...and shall inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, ...and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever. 20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them. 21 Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my law ye cannot attain to this glory. 22 For strait is the gate, and narrow the way that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the lives,and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me. (Doctrine and Covenants 132:19-22) Joseph Fielding Smith Jr., Doctrines of Salvation, Vol.1, p.69 - p.70: THE STRAITNESS OF THE WAY. Mortality is the testing or proving ground for exaltation to find out who among the children of God are worthy to become Gods themselves, and the Lord has informed us that "few there be that find it." Joseph Fielding Smith Jr., Doctrines of Salvation, Vol.1, p.97 - p.98: ALL EXALTED MEN BECOME GODS. To believe that Adam is a god should not be strange to any person who accepts the Bible. When Jesus was accused of blasphemy because he claimed to be the Son of God, he answered the Jews: "Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?" Joseph Smith taught a plurality of gods, and that man by obeying the commandments of God and keeping the whole law will eventually reach the power and exaltation by which he also will become a god.http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/ldschurchleadersdeclarechristianitytotalapostasy.htm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Marsh Posted May 10, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 126 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,090 Content Per Day: 0.57 Reputation: 501 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/03/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/15/1956 Share Posted May 10, 2019 GODHEAD LDS: Father & Son are resurrected men with physical bodies. Holy Ghost is a separate man with a spiritual body. Three totally separate Gods. God is married. Other Gods for other worlds. (D&C 130:22; Teachings, pp. 345-346, pp. 370-373; Doctrines of Salvation,v.1, p. 10-12) BIBLE: God is not a man. (Num. 23:19) He has always been God. (Psa. 90:2; Mal. 3:6; Hab. 1:12; Rom. 1:22-25) Only one God. (Isa. 43:10-11; 44:6; 45:21-22) Father is Spirit and invisible. (John 4:24; 1 Tim. 1:17) (GODHEAD: click here for complete quotes and references.) JESUS CHRIST LDS: Literally our elder brother, born to Heavenly Parents in the premortal life. Jesus, Lucifer and humans are all the same species and are brothers and sisters. (Gospel Principles pp. 11, 17, 18) BIBLE: Fully God, not a subordinate deity. Eternal. (Isa. 9:6; John 8:58; 1 Tim. 3:16; Heb. 13:8; John 1:1-4, 14; Col. 1:16-17) (JESUS CHRIST: click here for complete quotes and references.) PREMORTAL LIFE LDS: Teach that everyone existed in heaven before born on earth. We have existed eternally. (D&C 93:29; PGP:Bk of Abr 3:21-22; Teachings, pp. 352-354) BIBLE: Only Christ existed before mortality, not man. (John 8:58; Col. 1:17) Our existence started on earth. (Zec. 12:1; 1 Cor. 15:46) (PREMORTAL LIFE: click here for complete quotes and references.) ... VIRGIN BIRTH LDS: Believe God, as a resurrected physical man, is literal Father of Jesus—same manner in which men are conceived on earth. Believe Matt. 1:18 is in error. (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 546-547, 742) BIBLE: Mary was "with child of the Holy Ghost." (Matt. 1:18; Luke 1:30-35) (VIRGIN BIRTH: click here for complete quotes and references.) ... SONS OF GOD LDS: We were all born in heaven, prior to earth, as literal spirit children of God and his wife. (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 589-590) BIBLE: Spiritually adopted at conversion. (John 1:12; Gal. 3:26) (SONS OF GOD: click here for complete quotes and references.) ETERNAL LIFE LDS: Exaltation in Celestial Kingdom; godhood and ability to bear children in heaven. Must have a temple recommend and be sealed in Mormon temple. (D&C 131:1-4; 132:19-25, 30, 55) BIBLE: Not limited to certain ones in the top part of heaven. No mention of parenthood or temple marriage but is given to all true believers. (1 John 5:12-13; Luke 20:35-36)http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/terminologymain.htm#GODHEAD 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Marsh Posted May 11, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 126 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,090 Content Per Day: 0.57 Reputation: 501 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/03/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/15/1956 Share Posted May 11, 2019 Brigham Young preached: The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood—was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers. [Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 11, p. 268.]http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/virginbirthaccordingtoldsleaders.htm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Marsh Posted May 11, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 126 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,090 Content Per Day: 0.57 Reputation: 501 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/03/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/15/1956 Share Posted May 11, 2019 The History of the Church contains some statements which seem to show that Joseph Smith felt he was almost equal with God: God made Aaron to be the mouth piece for the children of Israel, and He will make me be god to you in His stead, and the Elders to be mouth for me; and if you don't like it, you must lump it. (History of the Church, vol. 6, pp. 319-20) If they want a beardless boy to whip all the world, I will get on the top of the mountain and crow like a rooster. I shall always beat them. . . . I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him, but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet. (History of the Church, vol. 6, pp. 408-9)http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/tract_jesusandjosephsmith.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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