luigi Posted July 28, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 57 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,767 Content Per Day: 1.02 Reputation: 315 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted July 28, 2019 Hi everyone, In the movie Defiance with Daniel Craig and Liev Schreiber, a couple of Russian Rabbi Jews who have fled the Nazis are talking amongst themselves, when one of them makes the claim that "todays Messiah's have mustaches and make long speeches". This remark was in reference to Joseph Stalin and Adolf Hitler, where Joseph Stalin was looked upon by millions of Russians as their man with the answers; while Adolf Hitler was looked upon by millions of Germans as their savior. Neither Joseph Stalin, nor Adolf Hitler claimed themselves to be any sort of deity, instead they merely often claimed to have the answer and to fix whatever was going wrong within their nations societies. I therefore am of the opinion that when the Lord in Matthew 24:5 states that many will come in His name claiming themselves to be Christ, that these false Christs are merely individuals (politicians) who will claim to have the answers with the capacity to fix whatever is going wrong within their nations societies. Matthew 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhchristian Posted July 28, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 136 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 2,488 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 1,325 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/29/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted July 28, 2019 4 hours ago, luigi said: Hi everyone, In the movie Defiance with Daniel Craig and Liev Schreiber, a couple of Russian Rabbi Jews who have fled the Nazis are talking amongst themselves, when one of them makes the claim that "todays Messiah's have mustaches and make long speeches". This remark was in reference to Joseph Stalin and Adolf Hitler, where Joseph Stalin was looked upon by millions of Russians as their man with the answers; while Adolf Hitler was looked upon by millions of Germans as their savior. Neither Joseph Stalin, nor Adolf Hitler claimed themselves to be any sort of deity, instead they merely often claimed to have the answer and to fix whatever was going wrong within their nations societies. I therefore am of the opinion that when the Lord in Matthew 24:5 states that many will come in His name claiming themselves to be Christ, that these false Christs are merely individuals (politicians) who will claim to have the answers with the capacity to fix whatever is going wrong within their nations societies. Matthew 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. Welcome Luigi, The Word Christ means anointed, so many will come claiming to be anointed...? So yes you could be right about this one, But the translators who did the King James capitalized Christ in verse 5 meaning in this account they will Claim be the one. Needless to say though, many claiming to be anointed is problematic in the church these days, as we see many taking monikers such as prophet, and apostle having never been anointed and sent by God to do such things. Especially On the WWW this is very prevalent, as false prophets and false teachers go out in search of fame and fortune doing this thus committing Balaam's error and doing so for gain. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi Posted July 29, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 57 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,767 Content Per Day: 1.02 Reputation: 315 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 29, 2019 (edited) 21 hours ago, dhchristian said: Welcome Luigi, The Word Christ means anointed, so many will come claiming to be anointed...? So yes you could be right about this one, But the translators who did the King James capitalized Christ in verse 5 meaning in this account they will Claim be the one. Needless to say though, many claiming to be anointed is problematic in the church these days, as we see many taking monikers such as prophet, and apostle having never been anointed and sent by God to do such things. Especially On the WWW this is very prevalent, as false prophets and false teachers go out in search of fame and fortune doing this thus committing Balaam's error and doing so for gain. Hi Cletus, It may also be as you say with many false prophets and false teachers claiming to be anointed by God. Edited July 29, 2019 by luigi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi Posted July 29, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 57 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,767 Content Per Day: 1.02 Reputation: 315 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 29, 2019 19 hours ago, Cletus said: there are many who are claiming to Be Jesus now. even more, there is a false teaching growing more popular that we become Jesus. same lie told since the beginning repackaged. these people have many followers. Yes, there are many to be claiming to be Jesus, and others claiming to be anointed, but these are fringe groups with relatively small followings; not billions of people. In my opinion, Matthew 24:5 seems to me to be referring to the whole world being deceived by many who will be claiming to have the answers, and able to make everything right. I think we are starting to see this now in several nations around the world, where people are voting in extremists, in hopes they will make things right as many of them are promising. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis1209 Posted July 29, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 347 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,466 Content Per Day: 2.70 Reputation: 5,378 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted July 29, 2019 On 7/28/2019 at 11:29 AM, luigi said: Hi everyone, In the movie Defiance with Daniel Craig and Liev Schreiber, a couple of Russian Rabbi Jews who have fled the Nazis are talking amongst themselves, when one of them makes the claim that "todays Messiah's have mustaches and make long speeches". This remark was in reference to Joseph Stalin and Adolf Hitler, where Joseph Stalin was looked upon by millions of Russians as their man with the answers; while Adolf Hitler was looked upon by millions of Germans as their savior. Neither Joseph Stalin, nor Adolf Hitler claimed themselves to be any sort of deity, instead they merely often claimed to have the answer and to fix whatever was going wrong within their nations societies. I therefore am of the opinion that when the Lord in Matthew 24:5 states that many will come in His name claiming themselves to be Christ, that these false Christs are merely individuals (politicians) who will claim to have the answers with the capacity to fix whatever is going wrong within their nations societies. Matthew 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. Hi luigi, To me it's not clear if this has special significance for the end times or not? I know that shortly after the Jew's rejected our Lord and Savior right after the Cross; there was an explosion of false messiah's, that deceived many. First century historian Flavis Josephus writes of some whom led many astray (Theudas, Cuspius Fadus, etc.), and promised miracles and freedom from the Roman yoke. I'm not really sure, but it seems Matt. 24:5 may be referring mainly to the first century when this explosion of false messiah's occurred and under the Roman yoke?? We know there is "one" Antichrist (instead of) and "one" False Prophet that's going to arrive in the near future. Perhaps it's both historical and future from our place in history? Today we have / had Heaven's Gate, the David Koresh's, Jim Jone's, etc., a handful or two globally that are claiming to be the Messiah. Myself, I wouldn't consider their numbers "many", compared to the global population or other religions. Of course all that could be subject to change. The "one" Antichrist no doubt will claim to have all the answers for the problems of the globe. Just my individual view and unsupported opinion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi Posted July 29, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 57 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,767 Content Per Day: 1.02 Reputation: 315 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 29, 2019 2 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said: Hi luigi, To me it's not clear if this has special significance for the end times or not? I know that shortly after the Jew's rejected our Lord and Savior right after the Cross; there was an explosion of false messiah's, that deceived many. First century historian Flavis Josephus writes of some whom led many astray (Theudas, Cuspius Fadus, etc.), and promised miracles and freedom from the Roman yoke. I'm not really sure, but it seems Matt. 24:5 may be referring mainly to the first century when this explosion of false messiah's occurred and under the Roman yoke?? We know there is "one" Antichrist (instead of) and "one" False Prophet that's going to arrive in the near future. Perhaps it's both historical and future from our place in history? Today we have / had Heaven's Gate, the David Koresh's, Jim Jone's, etc., a handful or two globally that are claiming to be the Messiah. Myself, I wouldn't consider their numbers "many", compared to the global population or other religions. Of course all that could be subject to change. The "one" Antichrist no doubt will claim to have all the answers for the problems of the globe. Just my individual view and unsupported opinion. Hi Dennis1209, While it is possible that the reference to those claiming to be Christ in Matthew 24:5 is in regards to some claiming themselves as a deity; for the most part, however, those individuals in the past, just as the ones today who make such outlandish claims, have very small followings, and are usually fringe groups. I think the question we need to ask ourselves is: Was the Lord referring to these small groups who may have deceived as many as several thousands of individuals, as they who would be deceived by the many who would come in His name? I find it more probable that the Lord is referring to the whole world being deceived by frauds claiming to have the answers, than this being just about several thousands of individuals in fringe societies believing someone to be a deity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douggg Posted July 30, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,143 Content Per Day: 0.47 Reputation: 220 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/18/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted July 30, 2019 On 7/28/2019 at 11:29 AM, luigi said: I therefore am of the opinion that when the Lord in Matthew 24:5 states that many will come in His name claiming themselves to be Christ, that these false Christs are merely individuals (politicians) who will claim to have the answers with the capacity to fix whatever is going wrong within their nations societies. No, it is talking about persons like Jos'e Miranda (claimed to be both the returned phase of Jesus and the Antichrist), John Miller of Australia, Vissarion in Russia as examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi Posted July 30, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 57 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,767 Content Per Day: 1.02 Reputation: 315 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 30, 2019 12 hours ago, Cletus said: Have you ever had hands laid on you? I think what you are referring to is revival meetings, where someone on stage cures someone of some illness. I agree that the vast majority of those are probably phonies, who are just there to make a buck. These have been around for a long time, and I do not think this is what the Lord was referring to as people being fooled by these charlatans, as all of these people put together throughout the world who are deceived by these frauds would probably not constitute even a million people. Ask yourself: How could even the elect be possibly fooled by such obvious frauds? Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi Posted July 30, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 57 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,767 Content Per Day: 1.02 Reputation: 315 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 30, 2019 6 hours ago, douggg said: No, it is talking about persons like Jos'e Miranda (claimed to be both the returned phase of Jesus and the Antichrist), John Miller of Australia, Vissarion in Russia as examples. Doug, How many people have even heard of Jose Miranda, or John Miller of Australia, or Vissarion of Russia? Are these for the most part "unknowns" to whom the Lord is referring could possibly even deceive the very elect? How many people follow these unknowns you mention, to which you believe the Lord felt it necessary to warn in these fringe groups of they being false Messiahs? The Lords concern is for all the billions of people on earth, including the few tens of thousands who are also deceived by people like Jose Miranda, John Miller, and Vissarion. The Lord is warning us not to follow any particular politician or individual who claims to be the answer to their prayers, with the capacity to make things right again. The devil is currently the ruler (and deceiver) of this world, and he gives control to whom he finds will carry out his agenda. People are deceived by politicians promises, who for the most part have ulterior motives, other than love for their neighbor. Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douggg Posted July 30, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,143 Content Per Day: 0.47 Reputation: 220 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/18/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted July 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, luigi said: The Lords concern is for all the billions of people on earth, including the few tens of thousands who are also deceived by people like Jose Miranda, John Miller, and Vissarion. Each and every soul is precious. 5 minutes ago, luigi said: The Lord is warning us not to follow any particular politician or individual who claims to be the answer to their prayers, with the capacity to make things right again. Do those politicians of whom you speak claim to be Jesus? 9 minutes ago, luigi said: People are deceived by politicians promises, who for the most part have ulterior motives, other than love for their neighbor. But are they claiming to be Jesus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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