My latest chart

[Justin Adams]

The seventieth week is conjecture. It is not provable and neither is the trib. stuff, that for the Israelis, has already happened. Look at it through the eyes of a second temple period Jew. This is the apostles' point of reference. Not our 21st century point of reference..

The Great Throne timing thing is also debatable and so is the 1000 years thing and the third temple. Why would we NEED a third temple. We are the TEMPLE according to the apostles. The very seed of Abraham.
The Glory of Zion, long awaited by the Israelis, came at Pentecost. (though most missed it)

Failure to understand words and ideas conveyed in the Tanach has some running in circles and trying to fit NT messaging into ancient prophesies. This is a good first step, yet has many scholars overlooking important passages in order for their theories to fit.

Yes, we will all be judged and maybe at different times (subjectively), but Revelations has so many overlapping visions and messages, you just cannot put an earthly time-line to it and be cohesive. Revelations gives us a glimpse into a time where there IS NO TIME. God's Throne and Court Room proceedings that are still in motion. Now as we type...

The Cosmology of God's universe is far more complex than a simple 21st century timeline.

All the books that have laid out the various end times scenarios are in serious doubt. They cannot be all correct. So probably none of them are.

By implying I have a false interpretations, you suggest that you do not. That is a perilous and tricky road...

[Montana Marv]

32 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

By implying I have a false interpretations, you suggest that you do not. That is a perilous and tricky road...

Zech 12, 13, 14 ; On that day, On that day, On that day, On that day, On that day......  All yet future

Zech 8 ; This is what the Lord Almighty says, This is what the Lord Almighty says.......   Israel is restored in the Mill Kingdom

Zech 14:16 - Then all the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.  The Mill

When one's narrative does not follow Scripture, it is False.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Justin Adams]

... not to forget the worthless shepherd...

[douggg]

2 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

Yes, we will all be judged and maybe at different times (subjectively), but Revelations has so many overlapping visions and messages, you just cannot put an earthly time-line to it and be cohesive.

From Revelation 6 to Revelation 20, it is possible.   But not from Revelation alone.    There are some actions that the length of time can't be determined because we don't have enough information.     But the order can be determined.

On my chart, all of the horizontal lines are time.    If the time is determinable, it will have a time frame (days) above or below it - like the 2300 days.  

The stair step appearance is because some periods of time from one event to the next is not determinable.   The order is correct though as you descend down through the chart from upper left to lower right.

Every place you see a horizontal line - some time passes.

 

Edited August 11, 2019 by douggg

[Revelation Man]

On 8/10/2019 at 9:24 AM, douggg said:

For starters, there is no 2300 days, its 2300 Daily Sacrifices or WHAT Daniel was doing when Gabriel visited him IN PRAYER at the Evening Oblation, meaning there was a Morning Oblation also, meaning if these were taken away over a 2300 day period that would add up to 2300 Oblations over 1150 days since its a twice daily event. Now since Daniel's "Prayer type Oblation" can't really be taken away, this is Prayer's offered unto Jesus/God in the Temple, AFTER the 1/3 who repent.....REPENT.....Via the Two-witnesses. 

Dan. 9:21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

So basically the High Priest {False Prophet} takes away the right of the 1/3 of the Jews who REPRENTED and turned bacl towards God by accepting Jesus, the one whom they mourrned {Zechariah 12:10-11} when they understodd they pierced their own God/Son of God. At the the SAME TIME, 1290 days away from the Second Coming, he sets up an Image of the E.U. President in the Temple of God. Well under Antiochus what did Jason the High Priest do ? He told the Jews they needed to get with the Greek Culture, serve their GODS and that they must forsake thier God Jehova, all under the pretenses of Hellenization, this is the same exact thing the coming False Prophet is going to do. Jason was the TYPE False Prophet as a High Priest just like Antiochus was the TYPE of Beast to come or Anti-Christ, in that he killed 80,000 Jews in his day. This coming Beast is going to do the same thing on a much larger scale. Hes going to try and force them to serve and worship him. 

The Jews never accdept tghhis man Douggg, just like the Maccabeans Revolted, the 1/3 who accept Jesus Flee Judea and the 2/3 who were hoodwinked are slaughtered. The AGREEMENTS he makes are not just with Israel, its with MANY or all the Nations in the Mediterranean Sea Region, thay is where you go off course. Then you have to arrange your timeline to fit, which is why your timeline doresn't fit and never will. Now via my understanding everything fits, because I have all the dates alligned correctly. 

Day 1....The E.U. President, the Anti-Christ at this time makes Agreements or renews agreements with MANY including Israwl, see the European Neighborhood Policy and all the Nations that are signed on as we spreak. So we get almost 3.5 years of peace, but like with HIitler, therre will be rumblings and signs that that this man is changing course, but all parties will be blindsided by his ultimate volent nature in full when he strikes !!

Day 1185....The Two-Witnesses {Moses and Elijah IMHO, Elijah for sure} show up 1335 days from the Second Coming, 45 sdays away from the 1290 and 75 days away from the 1260 event. They turn Israel back unto God just like Malachi 4:5-6 says they will do BEFORE the Day of the Lord {God's Wrath} falls on mankind at the 1260 opening of the Seals. The first Six Seals are opened on day 1260/1261 actually, with 1260 days left before the Second Coming. So the Jews REPENT {1/3 do} and start Worshiping Jesus in the Temple, this angers the E.U. President, he lets the High Priest know {like Hitler put pressure on the UK and France for concessions} and 45 days later the High Priest takes ACTION !!

Day 1230....The High Priest bars the Jews from Worshiping Jesus in the Temple of God {2/3 of the Jews might agree with this action, many do no doubt} and he acts like Jason did some 2200 years ago, he erects an Image of the E.U. President in the Temple and tried to get the Jews to forsake their true Gid and worship the Greek gods....or in this instance a man born in Greece who is President of the E.U. He no doubt has two different set of people he is trying to placate, the Religious Jews and the irrelegious Jews. He has decided that those Religious Jews who accepted Christ needs to be dosowned and that thos irrelegious Jews {2/3} need to be placated, he has decided to "Hellenize" or what we would call todays, Globalize the Jews and to forsake the Christian Jews, the Orthodox Jews will be few at this time, if 1/3 of the Jews REPENT, most will be Orthodox Jews like Paul, who loved God but was BLINDED until God revealed Jewsus unto them. So modt Jews will either be the Messianic Jews {1/3} or the Atheistic/irreligious types {2/3}, this High Priest will follow the majority and accept the rule/desires of the E.U. President {who will Conquering them anyway in 30 days}. The Jews Flee Judea AT THIS TIME !!

Day 1260/1261 in reality....The Man of Sin reveals himself as THE BEAST Conqueror that he is at this time, Jesus allows him to go forth Conquring for the next 1260 days. The Two-witnesses have been witnessing/preaching for 75 days at this time, thus they have 1185 days left in their Ministry whilst the Beast has 1260 days left as a Conquering Beast over the MANY Nations he has Conquered this day in the Mediterranean Sea Region {All of North Africa, Israel, Syria and Lebbanon SEE Daniel 11:40-43}. So that means the Two-witnesses will die 75 days before the Beast dies, since they both have "OFFICIAL OFFICES AS DESIGNATED BY God" of 1260 days !! Thus when the Two-witnesses die at the 2nd Woe that must be 75 days before the Beast dies at the 7th Vial or the 3rd Woe, when Jesus returns at the Second Coming.  The 1/3 of the Jews that fled Judea are protected for 1260 days, but they must flee BEFORE they are Conquered, and they do at the 1290, or 30 days BEFORE this 1260 event, which is 1260 days until the Second Coming. 

Day 2445....The Two-witnesses die 75 days before the Beast dies, they are raised up 3 1/2 days later and go to Heaven to be with the Jeswus, thus I assume they return from Heaven with us on day 2520 or at the Second Coming. 

Day 2520....Jesus Returns with the Church in tow, he defeats the Beast via SPEAKING VICYORY {Without hands as Daniel says}, he raises up the Saints of Daniels days and saves the Jewish Saints living in the Petra/Bozrah area. 

The Saints are GIVEN THE KINGDOM....Amen !! 

Why is this so confusing with so many interpretations that don't fit ? Because Satan is still at work sowing confusion to the masses !! 

Edited August 11, 2019 by Revelation Man

[Revelation Man]

3 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

Yes, we will all be judged and maybe at different times (subjectively), but Revelations has so many overlapping visions and messages, you just cannot put an earthly time-line to it and be cohesive. Revelations gives us a glimpse into a time where there IS NO TIME. God's Throne and Court Room proceedings that are still in motion.

WHAT ? We can...but not if we think Daniel's prophecies have already past us by. Revelation is really easy to put in order, ONCE you understand it, not so much until you do. I have laid it out in its actual chronological order in a blog. Its not that hard.

Rev. 1 is Jesus' Glory {Things seen}

Rev. 2 and 3 is the Church Age {Things which are}

{The things which will be Hereafter} Rev. 4 and 5 is THE CHURCH in Heaven before the Seals are opened.

Rev. 6,7, 8, 9, 15&16 is the Judgments of God visa the Seal, Trunmpet and Vial Judgments, besides Rev. 20-22 all the other chapters not mentioned yet happen inside these Judgment Chapters.....They are all what we call Parenthetical Citations.

Rev. 10 is a flash forward to the end, Rev. 11 is the Two-witnesses chapter, Rev. 12, 13, 17 and 18 ALL START when the First Seal is opened in Rev. ch. 6, Rev. 17 is ALL FALSE RELIGIONS being killed off, the other three chapters cover the full 42 months the Beast Rules. Rev. 18 IS the Seal, Trumpet and Vial Judgments raining down on Babylon {WHOLE WORLD}.

Rev. 14 and 19 both cover the full Seven Years that the Church is in Heaven. Ch. 14 has the Rapture of the church in verses 14-15 and the Wheat {144,000} on Mt. Zion and the Wicked Tares who are placed in the Winepress in verses 18-20, all at the end. Rev. 19 shows the Bride in Heaven BEFORE she Marries the Lamb, after she Marries the Lamb and coming back to earth with Jesus to FEAST at the Marriage Supper {Armageddon}, so that 7 years also. 

Rev. 20 is the Judgment Seat, Rev. 21 and 22 is the Hereafter and New Jerusalem !! 

That was not that complicated was it ? 

Edited August 11, 2019 by Revelation Man

[douggg]

36 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

For starters, there is no 2300 days, its 2300 Daily Sacrifices or WHAT Daniel was doing when Gabriel visited him IN PRAYER at the Evening Oblation, meaning there was a Morning Oblation also, meaning if these were taken away over a 2300 day period that would add up to 2300 Oblations over 1150 days since its a twice daily event.

No that is not what it means.   The mornings and evenings constituted as daily sacrifice.        A morning and evening constitutes one day.   2300 days is 2300 mornings and 2300 evenings.

 

 

[douggg]

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

The Jews never accdept tghhis man Douggg,

Antiochus doesn't prefigure the Antichrist, but the beast.     The beast will be 8th Julio Claudian king, dictator of the EU.

Little horn will be the 7th Julio Claudian king, leader of the EU, but not dictator until later.

Antichrist - King of Israel, unaprroved by God to be their king.

 

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

The AGREEMENTS he makes are not just with Israel, its with MANY or all the Nations in the Mediterranean Sea Region, thay is where you go off course. Then you have to arrange your timeline to fit, which is why your timeline doresn't fit and never will. Now via my understanding everything fits, because I have all the dates alligned correctly. 

My timeline fits.    What covenant did the Jews transgress in Daniel 9:11 ?  

Transgression of desolation - what is the transgression and what is made desolate?

11 Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.

In Deuteronomy 31:9-13,  Moses made it a law that all future leaders of Israel confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant on a 7 year interval.    

I have talked to the Jews about this, and that agree that it something that is required.    It can't be done though because of the muslims presence on the temple mount.

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

Day 2445....The Two-witnesses die 75 days before the Beast dies, they are raised up 3 1/2 days later and go to Heaven to be with the Jeswus, thus I assume they return from Heaven with us on day 2520 or at the Second Coming. 

Well, I went through all that in my thread "Timing of the two witnesses, by working backwards" to show that the two witness's 1260 days is the first half of the 7 years.   Verse by verse.

Why don't try to do the same?

 

Edited August 11, 2019 by douggg

[Revelation Man]

1 hour ago, douggg said:

No that is not what it means.   The mornings and evenings constituted as daily sacrifice.        A morning and evening constitutes one day.   2300 days is 2300 mornings and 2300 evenings.

 

 

2300 Evening AND mornings Sacrices is what Daniel was told by Gabriel , the  translators said DAYS.....then they translated the EXACT SAME TWO WORDS in verse 24....Dan. 8:26 as Evening and Morning, NOT DAY....So it was 2300 Evening and Morning Sacrifices. Maybe this "2300 thing" is what throws your Revelation understanding off via your timing, RABBIT HOLES takes us to places we ougght not be brother.

Edited August 11, 2019 by Revelation Man

[douggg]

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

That was not that complicated was it ?  

 

Justin's point was that Revelation is complicated and hard to understand.   On that point, Justin is right.

But it is not a reason not to try.   Generally speaking, people pursue what they are passionate about.

My view, not pointing at anyone in particular, is that regarding eschatology, most people just don't care.   They don't care what God has to say.    Whereas, what God has said is because He loves us.

People who seek to understand the end time prophecies - even if they get things wrong in their conclusions - do so because they love God in return.

Edited August 11, 2019 by douggg