Where Jesus and John Essenes?

[Remnantrob]

I'm gonna stick my neck out to be chopped off but I'm with bro. Zayit. Where did Jesus break his Laws?

[EricH]

This is largley a conjectural question that cannot be demonstrated with any amount of certainty

[jc49]

Okay....back up.  Stop the wagon train.

I just looked up the Essenes on the web and everything I wrote about them was wrong: http://www.essenespirit.com/who.html

This website asserts that, "...almost all of the principal founders of what would later be called Christianity were Essenes."

I disagree with that for this reason: "They were not limited to a single religion, but studied all of them in order to extract the great scientific principles. They considered each religion to be a different stage of a single revelation. They accorded great importance to the teachings of the ancient Chaldeans, of Zoroaster, of Hermes Trismegiste, to the secret instructions of Moses and of one of the founding Masters of their order who had transmitted techniques similar to those of Buddhism, as well as to the revelation of Enoch."

So now my question is, if what this website asserts is indeed true, why would the Lord Jesus associate Himself with a sect of people that adhered to a mixture of pagan religions?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

THAT'S RIGHT OVE,GOOD STUFF

[Ovedya]

I'm gonna stick my neck out to be chopped off but I'm with bro. Zayit.  Where did Jesus break his Laws?  

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm going to retract that entire set of statements in favor of my last comment. The subject of which law the Lord broke and which He did not, and whether you could actually say that He broke any of them since He is the Creator, is perhaps the subject of another debate entirely. I don't want to get off on a rabbit trail too soon here.

Can we start fresh and pretend that I did not write that?

[Remnantrob]

Okiedokie artichokie

[Remnantrob]

i think that it could be easy to say that Christ was an Essenes because he did interact with all types of folks even those who were demon possessed. But I don't think that He was because they way I've seen you guys described them seems pretty quirky. Christ was a Jew and because of this I'm sure He was subject to the customs of his day.

[Guest shiloh357]

There is NO evidence that Jesus was an Essene, though there some spiritualists that like to think so.

First of all, and this will take some by surprise perhaps, but Jesus was a Pharisee. Jesus was a Rabbi. They did not call Him "Rabbi" for no reason at all. It wasn't just because He was an effective public speaker. There were tens of thousands of Pharisees in Israel during the 1st century, and they were members of one of the nine Pharisaical orders that existed. Jesus could not have been a Rabbi without belonging to one of those orders. It is believed that he belonged to the school of Hillel. Hillel incidentally is still considered by many Jewish people to be Israel's greatest sage.

"Rabbi" is a professional title, like "Doctor" or "Professor." It is a title that is earned academically. Jesus studied in the North up in the region of Galilee. The Galilean region of the 1st century was the "blue-color" area of Israel. Galileans were often referred to by the Jews in southern region around Jerusalem as "Am-Haeretz" or "People of the Land." It was another way of saying "commoners." They were the middle to lower middle class people, less educated, less affluent. Also their Rabbis were not considered near as good a quality as those trained in the Yeshivot (seminaries) in Jerusalem.

This gives some insight as to why the people were so amazed when Jesus spoke. It is why you could hear a pin drop as the people stood in amazement when Jesus out debated the Jerusalem trained Pharisees!! It was not every day that a GALILEAN Rabbi scored as many points as THIS one did!

Jesus was not an Essene, because the Essenes were separatists. They considered the Temple and the Priesthood corrupt, and they made their tabernacle in the wilderness. They wanted nothing to do with the Temple or anything connected to it.

Jesus, on the other hand, regularly taught in the Temple, celebrated Hanukkah in the Temple, upheld the holiness of the Temple when he drove out the dishonest moneychangers and declared "My Father's House shall be called a House of Prayer!" He healed at the Temple, and celebrated the festival of Tabernacles at the Temple. Jesus never commanded anyone to avoid the Temple or not to do sacrifices. Rather he instructed them in the proper manner to bring sacrifices.

I could discuss other dissimilarities, but suffice to say that Jesus was the polar opposite of the Essenes in many areas.

[Ovedya]

There ya' have it!

Wonderful response, brother. I learned something today!

[Guest Zayit]

Did any of you read what I posted that Joshepus the Jewish Historian posted about this sect? That was what I was comparing to Luke and Acts. Of course there were over periods of time different sects of this sect, I am concentrating on what was written ( and which I posted ) by Josephus.

[Guest shiloh357]

QUOTE

Para 3.

These men are despisers of riches, and so very communicative as raises our admiration. Nor is there any one to be found among them who hath more than another; for it is a law among them, that those who come to them must let what they have be common to the whole order, -- insomuch that among them all there is no appearance of poverty, or excess of riches, but every one's possessions are intermingled with every other's possessions; and so there is, as it were, one patrimony among all the brethren. They think that oil is a defilement; and if any one of them be anointed without his own approbation, it is wiped off his body; for they think to be sweaty is a good thing, as they do also to be clothed in white garments. They also have stewards appointed to take care of their common affairs, who every one of them have no separate business for any, but what is for the uses of them all

.

These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren. ..............................And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.....................And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles. And all that believed were together, and had all things common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

I see the comparison you are trying to make here, but in the Essene culture, you had no ownership of anything. When you became a part of their group, everything you previously owned became community property, whether you wanted it to or not. Good thing they didn't have toothbrushes back then!

In the early church, the giving of one's possessions or property was not compulsary, but entirely voluntary. You did not have to give more than you felt you wanted to. The only stipulation was that you should give willingly from a cheerful heart and as the Lord leads.