one.opinion Posted February 24, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,240 Content Per Day: 2.10 Reputation: 1,356 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 24, 2020 15 minutes ago, Cletus said: you just said Gods image is a monkey. Absurdly false. The image of God reflected in humanity is certainly not physical. God's divine being is spirit. (John 4) 16 minutes ago, Cletus said: i am done speaking to you now, until you repent. Sounds good, thank you for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman Posted February 24, 2020 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 40 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted February 24, 2020 Praise God! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman Posted February 24, 2020 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 40 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted February 24, 2020 My current position on this issue is that I reject Darwinian evolution on logical, not necessarily theological grounds (I believe there may be interpretations of the Genesis account that are compatible with some sort of non-Darwinian evolutionary process). A simple analysis of the probability for the development of even a single functional large protein by random process is vanishingly small, making the evolution of complex life by such processes virtually impossible. This does not rule out some form of guided or teleological evolution, but I think explaining the mechanism behind theistic evolution is, by definition, impossible since supernatural processes would be involved. In addition, almost every aspect of life on earth points to design by an intelligent creator not the blind forces of chance (I find the argument that natural selection eliminates the blindness factor unconvincing). I think William Dembski and Stephen Meyer do a good job defending the argument for intelligent design. I'm also a firm believer in science (undergrad in molecular biology, advanced engineering degree) and believe that the witness of creation does not lie to us - it attests, along with Scripture, to the glory of God and should be viewed as fully trustworthy. I, therefore, conclude that the fossil record and scientific dating methods can be trusted, leading me to believe in an old earth. The geologic record seems to indicate dramatic changes in flora and fauna over time, with simple life forms becoming increasingly complex. We also see numerous short bursts of speciation followed by extinction events, possible leading to the idea of progressive creationism. Finally, I can't go down the YEC road since the ideas are inherently biased and unscientific as they manipulate the data to "prove" a specific view of the creation account, not unlike the way that evolutionists seem to manipulate the same data (both are trying to drive a square peg into a round hole). I'm participating in this thread is because that there seem to be some here espousing traditional evolutionary theory while holding a Christian world view and I'm interested in the arguments for such an approach. I remain skeptical but my mind is open and am looking for a respectful exchange of ideas on this topic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Barbarian Posted February 25, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,074 Content Per Day: 0.67 Reputation: 970 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 25, 2020 23 hours ago, dad2 said: They are out of their gourds if they thought that included evidence that man descended from animals. As for the degree to which evolution could happen, that is irrelevant! There is neither the time, nor the starting point from non life that evos preach, and the bible twisting straw grasping 'christian' cheer leaders proclaim. Turns out, it does. Wise admits the evidence is very good, but he prefers his understanding of Genesis. 23 hours ago, dad2 said: What there is gobs of evidence is that this poor guy has no clue and doesn't know what he is talking about! Actually he's very familiar with the evidence. Enough to knowledgeably discuss it with other scientists. As you know, you aren't. He's honest enough to admit the evidence, and to say that he's still going to go with his interpretation of Genesis. He's not kidding himself; he knows the facts and made his choice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Barbarian Posted February 25, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,074 Content Per Day: 0.67 Reputation: 970 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 25, 2020 23 hours ago, HAZARD said: An what was the common ancestor? Do you know? An ape. Had 24 pairs of chromosomes. Based on European hominin fossils of the time, it's likely to have been larger than a chimpanzee, and maybe even bipedal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAZARD Posted February 25, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 320 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 6,830 Content Per Day: 0.84 Reputation: 3,570 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/16/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted February 25, 2020 Humans have 46 and chimps have 48.Chromosomal differences between Homo and Great Apes. Humans have a characteristic diploid chromosome number of 2N=46 whereas the other Great Apes (orangutans, gorillas, and chimps) are all 2N=48. I believe God created everything, John 1:3, All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. That includes humans, apes, chimps, orangutans, and gorillas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dad2 Posted February 25, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,510 Content Per Day: 0.97 Reputation: 185 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/28/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted February 25, 2020 1 hour ago, The Barbarian said: Quote Turns out, it does. Wise admits the evidence is very good, but he prefers his understanding of Genesis. Well he prefers correctly. He was mistaken about the other. Quote Actually he's very familiar with the evidence. So am I. Quote Enough to knowledgeably discuss it with other scientists. The only reason one cannot discuss the unknown past nature and creation or the spiritual with scientists is the same reason we cannot discuss it with goldfish. They are fishbowlcentric. Quote As you know, you aren't. False. I am. You are not. Quote He's honest enough to admit the evidence, and to say that he's still going to go with his interpretation of Genesis. The evidence is not the issue. The beliefs of dark science foisted onto evidence is the issue. Quote He's not kidding himself; he knows the facts and made his choice. However he got fooled doesn't matter. The choice does matter. You should be so lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one.opinion Posted February 25, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,240 Content Per Day: 2.10 Reputation: 1,356 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 25, 2020 12 hours ago, HAZARD said: Humans have 46 and chimps have 48.Chromosomal differences between Homo and Great Apes. Yes, the scientific evidence very strongly indicates the fusion of a chromosome pair in the human population. I can write more about it, if you have a desire to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAZARD Posted February 25, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 320 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 6,830 Content Per Day: 0.84 Reputation: 3,570 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/16/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted February 25, 2020 5 hours ago, one.opinion said: Yes, the scientific evidence very strongly indicates the fusion of a chromosome pair in the human population. I can write more about it, if you have a desire to learn. No thank you. I don't believe in the theory of evolution in any way. I believe God created everything as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one.opinion Posted February 25, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,240 Content Per Day: 2.10 Reputation: 1,356 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 25, 2020 3 hours ago, HAZARD said: No thank you. I don't believe in the theory of evolution in any way. I believe God created everything as it is. Even if you do not accept evolution, it could be worthwhile to become more familiar with the evidence. It makes no sense to try to use scientific arguments against evolution if you are unfamiliar with the evidence for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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