Breaking the 10 Commandments

[Justin Adams]

4 hours ago, GandalfTheWise said:

Within reformed thought

Augustine...yuck. Calvin... double yuck.

[unworthyservant]

1 minute ago, Justin Adams said:

Mistranslations have messed this up with the "mia to sabbaton" thing. Only means 'one of the Sabbaths' and not first day of the week. It is quite plain that Yeshau was indeed dead for the 72 hours.

First, I agree with you about the misconceptions that arise from the translation faux pas you reference. I assume there's a typo and you mean "mia ton sabbaton" (from the Greek). There's a in depth look at that very issue at hoshanarabbah.org and while I'm not recommending that their commentary is any better than any others I'll just quote a small portion for those who might not be familiar with the controversy.

Matthew 28:1, First of the week. 

Is this phrase only emphasizing that Yeshua’s resurrection was on the first day of the week, or is it also telling us something else? This verse reads:

 “In the end [Greek: de] of the sabbath [Greek: sabbaton], as it began to dawn [Greek: epiphosko] toward the first day [a supplied word which is not in the Greek] of the week [Greek: sabbaton], came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.” (KJV)

The other parallel passages in the Gospel accounts include:

And when the sabbath [Greek: sabbaton] was past [diaginomai], Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. (Mark 16:1, KJV)

Now upon the first [Greek: mia] day [a supplied word which is not in original Greek] of the week [Greek: sabbaton], very early in the morning [Greek: orthros] , they came unto the sepulcher, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. (Luke 24:1, KJV)

Now one of the week, while still very early, they came on the tomb … (Luke 24:1, J.P. Green Interlinear)

The first [Greek: mia] day [a supplied word which is not in original Greek] of the week [Greek: sabbaton] cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulcher, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulcher. (John 20:1, KJV)

According to Vine’s Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, the Greek word shabbaton as used in Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:2, Acts 20:7,11 and 1 Corinthians 16:2 though translated in the KJV as “the first day of the week” literally and idiomatically means, “one of the sabbaths” signifying “the first day after the sabbath.” (p. 810)

 

 I guess that "short" is one of those relative words in this case. BTW, I do believe that Vine's is still a very good resource.

That said, if you notice I used the word controversy and given my aversion to that at all costs I have come to the following conclusion for my own belief. First, what we DO know is that Christ was dead and buried before the Sabbath. Since His crucifixion was on Friday, then it had to be sometime Friday afternoon or evening at the latest. The next thing that we know is that it was DISCOVERED that He had indeed been resurrected on the aforementioned KJV "first day". So, for me there is no controversy because the Bible never says exactly when the resurrection itself took place, only when it was DISCOVERED that it had already taken place. With all that and since no one actually saw exactly when the resurrection occurred, I'm OK with celebrating it on Sunday. But in the end, it still is no reason for abandoning the honoring of the Sabbath per God's commandment. 

[unworthyservant]

30 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

Look up Ishtar and its pagan connotations and you will see an evil theme running thru the so-called easter stuff (Ishtar etc). All SUN stuff and pagan up to the hilt.

Easter is another of those things that for me falls under the premise outlined in my first reply, so I'm OK with celebrating on Sunday since there's no controversy for me (perhaps a little curiosity about when the resurrection did occur but no controversy). I do however have great reservations about the way Christians celebrate the occasion on Easter. But that's another discussion for another day.

[Justin Adams]

4 minutes ago, unworthyservant said:

Since His crucifixion was on Friday

https://therefinersfire.org/resurrection1.htm

 

Quote from Rabbi Akizwe

Why is this so important? Because what makes Yeshua the Messiah, is that HE HAS FULFILLED EVERY PROPHECY ABOUT HIMSELF! And if He failed to fulfill just ONE of the 302 Words of prophecy, HE WOULD NOT BE THE MESSIAH AND WE WOULD ALL BE BOUND FOR HELL!

Too many of us have been told and taught erroneously and have received this false teaching as truth. WORSE YET, too many of us have failed to study this Word for ourselves to find out what is really true about this subject. AND FATALLY, too many continue to believe the false teaching, EVEN WITH INDISPUTABLE REPRESENTATION IN AND FROM THE WORD! (A quick point here, IF WE LEAVE A LEGACY OF FALSE TEACHING, THOSE FACING THE ANTI-CHRIST WILL BE EASY PREY! FOR THEY WILL ALREADY BE BELIEVING A LIE!)

So, I now present this ministry to all by way of the WORD and also support it with facts in the natural!

On the Hebrew calendar, one of the very few accurate calendars known to man, (the Gregorian calendar we use is not as accurate), it is now the year 5769. This calendars starts from the first 24 hour day found in Genesis 1:20. From Genesis 1:14 through 1:19, Yahweh creates the Sun, Moon and Stars, so that man (soon to be created after this) would know what a day, week, month, season and year was.

According to the Gregorian calendar, Yeshua died in the year 31 AD. According to the Hebrew Calendar Yeshua died in the year 3791. LET'S DO SOME MATH!

2009 - 31 = 1978 <> 5769 - 1978 = 3791> The dates line up! Now let's do a calendar conversion: According to Exodus 12, Yahweh ordains and commands the FEAST OF UNLEAVENED BREAD. According to Exodus 12:18, this "High Sabbath" starts on the 14th day of the first month of the year. THE FIRST MONTH IN THE HEBREW CALENDAR IS NISSAN.

April 8, 2009, is the 14th of Nissan, 5769. Ironically, this "High Sabbath" falls on a Wednesday this year. AND IN THE YEAR 3791 (31 AD) THE 14TH DAY OF NISSAN ALSO FELL ON A WEDNESDAY! Why is this so important?

Matthew 12:40 says, "..the Son of man will be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights." This is prophecy which must be fulfilled if Yeshua is to be the Messiah. (You cannot get 3 full days and 3 full nights from Friday to Sunday)

(The following Scriptures should be crossed referenced by you for more revelation and truth. Too long for this blog).

Mark 14:1 says, "After two days was [the feast of] the Passover, and of unleavened bread: and the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might take him by craft, and put [him] to death". The "after two days" refers to the fact that it is now Sunday and after Monday and Tuesday, (the 14th day of Nissan) the FEAST OF UNLEAVENED BREAD" HIGH SABBATH would begin.

Two days later, on Tuesday Mark 14:12-17 says, " And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the Passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?
Mark 14:13 And he sendeth forth two of his disciples, and saith unto them, Go ye into the city, and there shall meet you a man bearing a pitcher of water: follow him.
Mark 14:14 And wheresoever he shall go in, say ye to the goodman of the house, The Master saith, Where is the guest chamber, where I shall eat the Passover with my disciples?
Mark 14:15 And he will shew you a large upper room furnished [and] prepared: there make ready for us.
Mark 14:16 And his disciples went forth, and came into the city, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the Passover.
Mark 14:17 And in the evening he cometh with the twelve.

Later that Tuesday night, Mark 14:32 says, "And they came to a place which was named Gethsemane: and he saith to his disciples, Sit ye here, while I shall pray". This praying went on most of the night into the early hours of what we would call morning and what the Bible calls a day, for it is written that, "THE EVENING AND THE MORNING ARE THE DAY". IN HEBREW TIME THE DAY DOES NOT START UNTIL SUN UP (6:00 am). (This is an important point to remember when we get to Yeshua rising).

Before sun up Tuesday (Wednesday morning our time) Mark 14:43-44 says, "And immediately, while he yet spake, cometh Judas, one of the twelve, and with him a great multitude with swords and staves, from the chief priests and the scribes and the elders. Mark 14:44 And he that betrayed him had given them a token, saying, Whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is he; take him, and lead [him] away safely. Take note that Mark 14:49 points out that "...the scriptures must be fulfilled".

From that time until Wednesday Morning Yeshua was beaten by the Council and later taken to Pilate. Mark 15:6 refers to the fact that it is the FEAST OF UNLEAVENED BREAD, 14TH OF NISSAN: Mark 15:6, "Now at [that] feast he released unto them one prisoner, whomsoever they desired".

Now the scriptures start to break down the time by hours. By 9:00 am Yeshua was on the tree; Mark 15:25, "And it was the third hour, and they crucified him". By approximately 3:00pm Yeshua was dead!

Mark 15:33 And when the sixth hour was come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour.
Mark 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Mark 15:37 And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.

We know that Yeshua was placed in a borrowed tomb, (More prophecy) and Rose on the third day. NOW LET'S DO SOME MORE MATH.

WEDNESDAY, THURSDAY, AND FRIDAY NIGHTS = 3 FULL NIGHTS!
THURSDAY, FRIDAY AND SATURDAY = 3 FULL DAYS!

We know that He was not in the tomb ALL NIGHT SATURDAY NIGHT (Remember "The evening and morning are the day) Because the Women got to the tomb BEFORE SUNDAY MORNING; SUNRISE; (6:00 am). Mark 16:2 says, "And very early in the morning the first [day] of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun" . Matthew 28:1 says, "In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first [day] of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre". The other Gospels are similar. THE WOMEN GOT THERE BEFORE SUNDAY MORNING AND WHEN THEY DID YESHUA WAS ALREADY GONE!

YESHUA DID NOT DIE ON FRIDAY AND HE DID NOT RISE ON SUNDAY MORNING! HE FULFILLED PROPHECY WHICH IS THE ONLY THING WHICH MAKES HIM THE MESSIAH!

courtesy Rabbi Akizwe

[unworthyservant]

5 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

Why is this so important? Because what makes Yeshua the Messiah, is that HE HAS FULFILLED EVERY PROPHECY ABOUT HIMSELF! And if He failed to fulfill just ONE of the 302 Words of prophecy, HE WOULD NOT BE THE MESSIAH AND WE WOULD ALL BE BOUND FOR HELL!

I agree and since He did He is! so, for me that's all I need to know. I only engage myself in the discussion in hopes of dissuading others from engaging in little controversies over translation issues and the like. I believe that when we attempt make any more deductions than what the FACTS that are stated in the Bible tell us, it will always end in controversy, so why not simply accept them at face value and then turn all that energy to the task of doing Christ's bidding

[Justin Adams]

56 minutes ago, maryjayne said:

My bottom line is this:

If I am able to attend a church, I have to go on a Sunday as that's when the services happen.

I am confident that God will not condemn me for this. 

What do the Saturday Sabbath Christians do about church attendance - do they go to church then continue the rest of the day like an ordinary day?

I have no problem with going to church Sundays or any other. I don't very often but sometimes I do. I revere and respect the Sabbath on my own. No sweat. Just take it as it comes. I do not buy stuff on Sabbath and things like that, I generally just veg out a bit. Nothing earth shattering I know. 

Edited August 24, 2019 by Justin Adams

[unworthyservant]

1 hour ago, Betha said:

I think there is a total TRUTH we can trust rather than the confused interpretations offered by man....and it is that of Yashua Himself !

HE said He would be 'in the tomb 3 nights and 3 days Mat 12v40. According to scripture each day time and each night time are 12 hours long Joh 11v9. No way is that possible between friday afternoon and sunday morning. 

Yashua/Jesus was dead and buried/entombed on Wednesday the preparation day Joh 19v31, BEFORE sunset and  before start of the ANNUAL Sabbath/Thursday Lk 23v54.  and arose BEFORE sunset on the weekly Sabbath....exactly 3 night times and 3 daytimes later.....Yashua IS TRUTH and not a liar, which can not be said of man. 

When we apply SCRIPTURE correctly the Bible DOES tell us exactly when Yashua resurrected, pointing to Sabbath/saturday HE IS LORD OF !

Witnesses are not necessary or required when we have the Word of God to establish our Faith BELIEVING in the UNseen Heb 11v1.

Well, I have no argument with your logic but as I said in my reply earlier, I believe that we must be careful and not let things like the actual time of the resurrection distract from the main task of spreading the Gospel that He did arise. From my own study I have come to the conclusion that it matters little the exact days that folks choose to honor the resurrection just as long as they also remember to honor the Sabbath as well. That said, as in many cases Gill's has a pretty pretty good condensed commentary. I left out the first part about Jonah for this discussion but here's their take on the last part of Matthew 12:40.

So shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart
of the earth.
That Christ means himself by the "son of man", there is no reason to doubt; and his being laid in a tomb, dug out of a rock, is sufficient to answer this phrase, "the heart of the earth", in distinction from the surface of it; but some difficulty arises about the time of his continuing there, and the prediction here made agreeable to the type: for it was on the sixth day of the week, we commonly call "Friday", towards the close, on the day of the preparation for the sabbath, and when the sabbath drew on, that the body of Christ was laid in the sepulcher; where it lay all the next day, which was the sabbath of the Jews, and what we commonly call "Saturday"; and early on the first of the week, usually called "Sunday", or the Lord's day, he rose from the dead; so that he was but one whole day, and part of two, in the grave. To solve this difficulty, and set the matter in a clear light, let it be observed, that the three days and three nights, mean three natural days, consisting of day and night, or twenty four hours, and are what the Greeks call (nucyhmera) , "night days"; but the Jews have no other way of expressing them, but as here; and with them it is a well known rule, and used on all occasions, as in the computation of their feasts and times of mourning, in the observance of the passover, circumcision, and divers purifications, that (wlwkk Mwyh tuqm) , "a part of a day is as the whole" F14: and so, whatever was done before sun setting, or after, if but an hour, or ever so small a time, before or after it, it was reckoned as the whole preceding, or following day; and whether this was in the night part, or day part of the night day, or natural day, it mattered not, it was accounted as the whole night day: by this rule, the case here is easily adjusted; Christ was laid in the grave towards the close of the sixth day, a little before sun setting, and this being a part of the night day preceding, is reckoned as the whole; he continued there the whole night day following, being the seventh day; and rose again early on the first day, which being after sun setting, though it might be even before sun rising, yet being a part of the night day following, is to be esteemed as the whole; and thus the son of man was to be, and was three days and three nights in the grave; and which was very easy to be understood by the Jews; and it is a question whether Jonas was longer in the belly of the fish.

 

[unworthyservant]

13 hours ago, maryjayne said:

My bottom line is this:

If I am able to attend a church, I have to go on a Sunday as that's when the services happen.

I am confident that God will not condemn me for this. 

What do the Saturday Sabbath Christians do about church attendance - do they go to church then continue the rest of the day like an ordinary day?

Again, I say there's nothing wrong with worshiping on Sunday, just don't forget and honor the Sabbath. God won't condemn you for worshiping on Monday or Tuesday or Wednesday or any other day but He might ask "why did you not Honor the Sabbath as I commanded you?".

[Jostler]

i'm convinced there  is  a LOT of wisdom in deciding to take one day a week and make provisions for that day to set aside normal work..and focus on Him ...honor Him and let FLESH rest.

I think those that do that for Him, honor Him and gain the health benefits too....but it's not a salvation issue.  In Him the sabbath is fulfilled and by the  power of the indwelling Spirit we are to be keeping the meaning of the sabbath every single day of our lives.  CEASING from doing our own works, or speaking our own words.

Those that try  to rebuke others over a specific day  of the week are in violation of the clear Word and totally missing the beauty of His FULFILLING the Law....and failing to enter His rest.

[Blood Bought 1953]

16 hours ago, missmuffet said:

Born again Christians should not willfully sin. But we do sin everyday without even realizing it. We are sinful human beings. That is why we need to ask for forgiveness everyday. 

 

Those in the Body of Christ are forgiven before they even  ask .