Will God give seven days warning before the Rapture as He warned Noah ?

[dhchristian]

Just now, dhchristian said:

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

My point is that if you are still questioning eternal security, you are a babe in Christ.  My point is, this theory of yours is in error! I don't "question" OSAS: I know it is a lie from hell. You don't know this yet, but you will. Always remember, Heb. 6 is very much a part of His word. We get IN by an act of our will. We think, say, and act as if "I will" become a Christian! If we follow the line to maturity in Christ as shown in Heb. 6, any believer could (it is possible) say "I WON'T" and turn away from God. God is telling us here that IT IS POSSIBLE. Since Heb. 6 is truth, then OSAS is a lie. Don't get me wrong; it is VERY DIFFICULT to leave Christ, but it is possible. 

Some people get born again knowing NOTHING of the scriptures except what they learned to get born again. They probably don't even think of themselves as "sons," at the time of their conversion.

Where you miss it: you are convinced OSAS is truth, so everything you say comes from that perspective.  The truth is, there are people in hell right now that were once born again people.

Looks like I hit a nerve?

You are making a grave error equating OSAS and Eternal security and assurance. Eternal Security is a doctrine of the church. It is NOT a license to sin. 

People who think security is conditional are merely living in Doubt and partial unbelief. You Know my views on this, as this partial unbelief is the very heart of the Lukewarmness of the Laodicean church age. Doubt is good and healthy in our life until it overcomes and paralyzes our faith. Do You understand how this is the case? Doubt is our rational mind trying to rationalize the supernatural, You as a Pentecostal should understand this to its fullest. Faith is an irrational thing, a belief in the supernatural Hope of salvation that comes from Believing In Jesus and his finished work on the cross.

That being said, the passage you and most "conditional security" advocates use from Hebrews is ripped Way out of the context of the Epistle. The Passage opens "it is Imposssible",Not "it is possible".... Then Verse six adds the Conjunction "IF"  meaning the verses are a hypothetical in the bigger context of Hebrews, which deals with entering God's resting place, By Faith. Let me give you an example to simplify this. Here are the verses in Question. Notice they all form one sentence... 

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.  

Here is another sentence using this impossible/if structure.

It is impossible for a dog to meow as a cat, If it could meow, it could sneak up on cats and easier.

Do You see How you are reading this passage wrong grammatically now, at least?

Now Take the time to read verse 1-3 of Hebrews six.... what is the context of these verses? It is about Maturity in Christ Jesus. These verses, thus are proving not conditional security but Eternal security... For it is impossible for person that has the HOLY GHOST to fall away. In Fact, the Whole theme of Hebrews is about unbelief, and how we need to mature as believers into total faith in the promises of God and the finished Work of Christ on the cross. We must avoid being like Israel, who because of partial unbelief in the providence of God was forced to wander in the Wilderness for 40 years... They were still the people of God, and God still provided for them, but they failed to enter His Promises because of the lack of faith.

I Encourage you to read Hebrews this way, as this is the theme of the Epistle. Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. (Hebrews 12;2)

Having issues with Internet connection here, so sorry I am breaking this into a second part, wanted to make sure you got the first. 

Apostasy. The falling away. The Falling away that is prophesied in scripture, is speaking of a falling away from the Truth. This is a corporate falling away, and not to be misunderstood as falling away from salvation. God KEEPS those who are HIS Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, (Jude 1:24)

Jesus Even affirms this in John 6. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. (John 6:37-40)

Yet later in that chapter he alludes to One of the 12 being a Devil (Judas Iscariot), saying he chose him to be one of the 12 to fulfill scripture.

But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father....Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? (John 6;64-65, 70)

What this tells of is the Tares that are in the field which is Planted by God. These Tares will be harvested out from amongst the body first, as Judgment begins with the House of God (1 Peter 4;17) They are the ones which will fall away from the Truth. Up until the falling away they are allowed to remain alongside the wheat.

Which are you, a Tare, or the wheat? Are you Sure? (Reflective Questions for all who read) That is what assurance is all about. 

[dhchristian]

2 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

In other words, if the Holy Spirit ever leaves a human being after they are born again, He is NOT coming back again.

You and I disagree again, as usual. We read scriptures differently.

Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. (Hebrews 13:5)  

Seems like you do not Believe this Promise if you ask me? 

[iamlamad]

16 hours ago, other one said:

yep and the rapture comes just before he burns the whole place to a crisp, not before any kind of tribulation....   The day of the Lord comes when he plants his foot on Planet earth...   and most of us will have died at the hands of Satan during his wrath here....   That where the people under the throne come from that is so large they can't be numbered...   I would say probably billions of people who refuse the mark and choose death instead....      and we should prepare ourselves spiritually to be able to go through that.

Please find that "crisp" verse and show us. I want to see that. I wonder what, in your mind, is "any kind of tribulation?" Would "the trib" (the 70th week of Daniel) fit "any kind?"  If so, you are all wet here. OF COURSE the rapture comes before "the trib." It comes before the 70th week. "The trib" = "the 70th week".   "the 70th week"  = "the tribulation." (Ever take advanced math?)

You can try in your argument to separate these but you will not have good luck. Even Jesus used the two words, "the tribulation;" but of course in His language.

The day of the Lord comes when he plants his foot on Planet earth...   Sorry, we cannot go by human imagination, or human reasoning; we MUST base doctrine on what is written. John starts the Day of His wrath (equals the day of the Lord) in Rev. chapter 6 at the 6th seal. John shows Jesus "planting His foot" down in Rev. 19. You are many chapters off and over 7 years off.

Look, if you wish to remain behind and "tribulate," that is your choice, but please, don't try and convince others to follow you!  I just watched to movie, "the boy in Pajamas" where a German by just did not understand that those on the other side of the fence where slated for death in the gas chamber. Neither did the boy on the prison side of the fence understand; he only knew his dad was marched off and did not return. So the German boy dug under the fence, put on "pajamas" and was soon marched into the gas chamber. He did not have to: he was German, not Jew. He was confused about the whole matter! He certainly did not understand that "jews were not people."

In the same way, God has not and will not set appointments for us in or with His wrath - the very wrath that will begin before any of the "trib" or 70th week. That is why John SAW the church safely in heaven before he began writing of the 70th week. What am I saying? No believer has to go to the gas chamber - I MEAN - no believer has to meet the beast, see the beast, or have any interaction with the Beast at all - for the church will be caught up before the beast is revealed. Note carefully, the Beast is revealed WHILE wrath is poured out. Note carefully, while Satan's wrath is at its peak in beheading saints, God pours out the vials of HIS wrath - to shorten those days - so in truth, these two wraths, one from God and one from Satan are CONCURRANT and cannot be separated. Again, you can CHOOSE to stay behind for Satan's wrath, but WHY? You are not a heathen and God is NOT angry with you.

The truth: today perhaps 7.7 billion on earth today. No one knows for sure, but the pretrib rapture may well take 50%: those born again and all the children. That would leave 3.8 billion or so. The 6th trumpet (Parable of the tares?) will take another 33%. That would leave maybe a little over 1 billion left.  Out of this 1 billion, SOME will be beheaded.

Now consider the rapture: perhaps 50 generations of believers!  Let's suppose year 1 was 10,000 believers. That is VERY conservative.

Let's say that believers increased on earth every generation by 1.285%. Over 50 generations that would mean today there would be around 2 million, 170 thousands true believers - again very conservative.  add all these up - the believers in every generation - and we get almost 10 billion people! That is more than earth's population today! Then add in another 20% of earth's population today for children, and we get a whopping 11 billion people.

What am I saying? That the crowd, too large to number, is THE CHURCH just raptured in heaven. John has not yet even started the 70th week!

Finally, if you wish to remain behind, be our guest- but I am saying plainly, the church will not - they are bound for heaven, before the man of sin is even revealed.

[dhchristian]

9 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

It is impossible for a dog to meow as a cat, If it could meow, it could sneak up on cats and easier. Sorry, but you have missed the IF.

The if is not IF someone can fall away, the IF is, IF they fall away (they can if they choose to), they can never return to where they were. They are LOST.  Their end is to be burned.

BTW, I think I won this point here, By simple logic and grammatical structure... So you are the one reading into it with preconceived glasses.

[iamlamad]

1 minute ago, dhchristian said:

Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. (Hebrews 13:5)  

Seems like you do not Believe this Promise if you ask me? 

It is the PERSON that chooses to leave Him. He will never leave a believer! Notice, "If THEY should fall away..."  God is not falling away from them, they are choosing to leave Him.  Notice, He COMES with a human invitation. He can leave if the human invites Him out. He is not going to force anyone to go to heaven if they change their mind and don't want to go.

[dhchristian]

Just now, iamlamad said:

It is the PERSON that chooses to leave Him. He will never leave a believer! Notice, "If THEY should fall away..."  God is not falling away from them, they are choosing to leave Him.  Notice, He COMES with a human invitation. He can leave if the human invites Him out. He is not going to force anyone to go to heaven if they change their mind and don't want to go.

Your Stretching now...

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. (John 6;37)

You are Putting the free will of Man over the sovereignty of God. Yes, We choose by our will to come to Him, But he will not cast them out because Faith is the surrender of our will to His Will. The Only Part of your statement I agree with is "he will never leave a believer". If they depart from they were never a true believer in the first place. 

[dhchristian]

Just now, dhchristian said:

Just now, iamlamad said:

It is the PERSON that chooses to leave Him. He will never leave a believer! Notice, "If THEY should fall away..."  God is not falling away from them, they are choosing to leave Him.  Notice, He COMES with a human invitation. He can leave if the human invites Him out. He is not going to force anyone to go to heaven if they change their mind and don't want to go.

Your Stretching now...

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. (John 6;37)

You are Putting the free will of Man over the sovereignty of God. Yes, We choose by our will to come to Him, But he will not cast them out because Faith is the surrender of our will to His Will. The Only Part of your statement I agree with is "he will never leave a believer". If they depart from they were never a true believer in the first place. 

This SHOULD cast more light on this verse RE: Antichrists...

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. (1 John 2:19)

Now mind you I am not saying you are antichrist for holding this opinion, I am saying antichrists are those who depart from the Body, If they were a true believer they would never depart... Never is a big word.

[iamlamad]

6 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

BTW, I think I won this point here, By simple logic and grammatical structure... So you are the one reading into it with preconceived glasses.

Let's look:

"For it is impossible...

New International Version
...who have once been enlightened ...and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

 

New Living Translation
...to bring back to repentance those who were once enlightened...and who then turn away from God. It is impossible to bring such people back to repentance; by rejecting the Son of God, they themselves are nailing him to the cross once again and holding him up to public shame.

English Standard Version
...in the case of those who have once been enlightened, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

New American Standard 1977
... For in the case of those who have once been enlightened ...and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God, and put Him to open shame.

 

Therefore I disagree: most translations are on my side of this discussion.  It is not "if they can" but rather if they DO...

[dhchristian]

Just now, iamlamad said:

Therefore I disagree: most translations are on my side of this discussion.  It is not "if they can" but rather if they DO...

If they can is qualified by the "it is impossible" at the beginning of the sentence.

 

[Billiards Ball]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Of course the rapture event will not be "silent!" The trumpet blast may be very loud indeed - but sinners might think it is thunder. It may well be invisible: a live and in-flesh person will suddenly turn into a spirit being (our resurrection body) and all someone may see is a sudden disappearance.  Being caught up again may be invisible. We have no scripture one way or the other. God may allow some to see it: for example, 144,000 Hebrews!

¹² And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

¹⁷ For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

What is the first thing John wrote? The 6th seal being opened and then an earthquake. I personally believe this earthquake to be Paul's sudden destruction. It cannot be proven with scripture. I think the rapture comes FIRST. Then the earthquake. According to Isaiah 2, the earthquake is also a sign of the Day of the Lord.  However:

Isaiah 13:9 

Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

It would seem more in line with scripture that the rapture comes first, THEN the day of the Lord: as in the rapture being the trigger for the start of the DAY.  I cannot see the rapture as being IN this day of destruction. I think it must come first. Notice "the sun BECAME black....this is written as if the sun turning black will come AFTER the earthquake.

The signs of the sixth seal (moon and sun and earthquake) open the Rapture timing,  I must disagree.  the dead in Christ rising will CAUSE the earthquake. Paul does not tell us to look for an earthquake and then know the rapture will instantly follow. No, Paul tells us he SUDDEN event that comes first, with no warning, will be the dead in Christ rising.

I would like to see you outline the main events in REvelation in the order you think they will happen.

What are your goals for our conversation? What is it that you would like me to do?