OneLight Posted October 28, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted October 28, 2019 22 minutes ago, douge said: Jesus preached the gospel of the kingdom Matthew 4:23 The signs in Mark 16:17-18 could not be said to apply to the body of Christ. Paul said to rightly divide 2 Timothy 2:15 What is the gospel of the Kingdom if it is not all inclusive? Didn't His message also include how one enters the kingdom and is that not through Him? The gospel of the kingdom is the good-news message of repentance, redemption, and restoration offered by God to all who will receive Christ. Those who accept this offer become part of His eternal kingdom. Why do you believe Mark 16:17 cannot be applied today? Where in scripture does it say this? Even Paul speaks of the spiritual gift of tongues. Do you believe Paul? SInce Paul was taught by Jesus, and Jesus taught we could cast out demons, why do you reject this? If you reject any of the 4 gospels, you must reject them all, unless you believe in cherry picking what you like and separate scripture from what you don't like. 2 Timothy 2:15 is speaking of rightly dividing the truth from false teachings and babbling. They are talking about approved and disapproved workers. You need to take the whole context surrounding a verse and not cherry pick one or two verses out. 2 Timothy 2:14-26 Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers. Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.” But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douge Posted October 28, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 354 Topics Per Day: 0.17 Content Count: 964 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 181 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/14/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 1 hour ago, OneLight said: What is the gospel of the Kingdom if it is not all inclusive? Didn't His message also include how one enters the kingdom and is that not through Him? The gospel of the kingdom is the good-news message of repentance, redemption, and restoration offered by God to all who will receive Christ. Those who accept this offer become part of His eternal kingdom. Why do you believe Mark 16:17 cannot be applied today? Where in scripture does it say this? Even Paul speaks of the spiritual gift of tongues. Do you believe Paul? SInce Paul was taught by Jesus, and Jesus taught we could cast out demons, why do you reject this? If you reject any of the 4 gospels, you must reject them all, unless you believe in cherry picking what you like and separate scripture from what you don't like. 2 Timothy 2:15 is speaking of rightly dividing the truth from false teachings and babbling. They are talking about approved and disapproved workers. You need to take the whole context surrounding a verse and not cherry pick one or two verses out. 2 Timothy 2:14-26 Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers. Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.” But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will. The gospel of the kingdom was for Israel. Those who would enter the kingdom was the believing remnant of Israel, the little flock Luke 12:32 Acts 1:6. Christ was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel Matthew 15:24. In Matthew 10:5 Jesus told the twelve go not into the way of the Gentiles. Mark 16:17-18 was more than speaking in tongues Rightly dividing is in regard of rightly handling the word. In 2 Timothy 2:18 it speaks of error in handling the truth of the word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted October 28, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted October 28, 2019 39 minutes ago, douge said: The gospel of the kingdom was for Israel. Those who would enter the kingdom was the believing remnant of Israel, the little flock Luke 12:32 Acts 1:6. Christ was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel Matthew 15:24. In Matthew 10:5 Jesus told the twelve go not into the way of the Gentiles. Mark 16:17-18 was more than speaking in tongues Rightly dividing is in regard of rightly handling the word. In 2 Timothy 2:18 it speaks of error in handling the truth of the word. By what you presented above, nothing in the 4 synoptic gospels are for us. Nothing Jesus taught should be applied to the Gentiles. See how your way of thinking does not work? Sorry, I did not see the inclusion of verse 18 - bad eyesight. Let's look at both the verses and you can tell me what you don't think He can do through us. And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover. Which of the above do you say does not apply to us today, that Jesus could not do in or through us? Handling the truth of the word - interesting you say that as you see me not handling it correctly and I see you not handling it correctly. In other words, you are trying to correct me, and I you. What now? I have given extensive scriptural proof to support what I say, but your proof is just one or two verses. Scripture does not contradict itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douge Posted October 28, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 354 Topics Per Day: 0.17 Content Count: 964 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 181 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/14/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 50 minutes ago, OneLight said: By what you presented above, nothing in the 4 synoptic gospels are for us. Nothing Jesus taught should be applied to the Gentiles. See how your way of thinking does not work? Sorry, I did not see the inclusion of verse 18 - bad eyesight. Let's look at both the verses and you can tell me what you don't think He can do through us. And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover. Which of the above do you say does not apply to us today, that Jesus could not do in or through us? Handling the truth of the word - interesting you say that as you see me not handling it correctly and I see you not handling it correctly. In other words, you are trying to correct me, and I you. What now? I have given extensive scriptural proof to support what I say, but your proof is just one or two verses. Scripture does not contradict itself. I was only responding about rightly dividing because of this statement you made "Where does Paul separate scripture like you are? " and here "2 Timothy 2:15 is speaking of rightly dividing the truth from false teachings and babbling. They are talking about approved and disapproved workers. You need to take the whole context surrounding a verse and not cherry pick one or two verses out. " I was not directing it to you.....sorry for any misunderstanding. I was not trying to correct you only discussing my understanding of scripture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted October 28, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted October 28, 2019 Just now, douge said: I was only responding about rightly dividing because of this statement you made "Where does Paul separate scripture like you are? " and here "2 Timothy 2:15 is speaking of rightly dividing the truth from false teachings and babbling. They are talking about approved and disapproved workers. You need to take the whole context surrounding a verse and not cherry pick one or two verses out. " I was not directing it to you.....sorry for any misunderstanding. I was not trying to correct you only discussing my understanding of scripture. Are we not, by discussing our understanding of scripture, either agreeing with or correcting an error we see with someone else's understanding, doing just that? I don't see a middle ground where we can remain neutral when it comes to scripture. If anything, we can admit we just don't now. We are to correct those who are in opposition, are we not? Let's see what Paul says further down in 2 Timothy 2. 2 Timothy 2:21-26 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will. Now, how about dividing the synoptic gospels like you mentioned, some not being for the Gentiles? Care to discuss this more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douge Posted October 28, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 354 Topics Per Day: 0.17 Content Count: 964 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 181 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/14/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 2 hours ago, OneLight said: Are we not, by discussing our understanding of scripture, either agreeing with or correcting an error we see with someone else's understanding, doing just that? I don't see a middle ground where we can remain neutral when it comes to scripture. If anything, we can admit we just don't now. We are to correct those who are in opposition, are we not? Let's see what Paul says further down in 2 Timothy 2. 2 Timothy 2:21-26 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will. Now, how about dividing the synoptic gospels like you mentioned, some not being for the Gentiles? Care to discuss this more? I was viewing correction more of saying you need to correct behavior or were being deliberate in opposing the truth. But yes we are both stating the understanding we have for scripture and do not hold the same view. I am not dogmatic about my views because I can and have been wrong. I also realize you may never see or agree to my view. I am only offering my view for consideration and cordial discussion. I am most concerned of what would detract or deviate from the truth of the gospel. I try to be as succinct in how much I write as I have seen too many lengthy responses that I find hard to answer or even follow.....not saying you are. Now to continue: Are you referring to Christ coming only to the lost sheep of Israel? as not being for Gentiles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted October 29, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted October 29, 2019 1 hour ago, douge said: I am most concerned of what would detract or deviate from the truth of the gospel. When any theology states that the teachings of Jesus are not for us today, that theology is doing exactly that 1 hour ago, douge said: Are you referring to Christ coming only to the lost sheep of Israel? as not being for Gentiles Absolutely not. Jesus will return first for His children, where some will be Israelis and the rest Gentiles. The focus of the tribulation is to bring the Israelis back to Him, while punishing the world of its sins, which will be the main focus of the 144,000, as I understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douge Posted October 29, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 354 Topics Per Day: 0.17 Content Count: 964 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 181 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/14/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 29, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, OneLight said: When any theology states that the teachings of Jesus are not for us today, that theology is doing exactly that Absolutely not. Jesus will return first for His children, where some will be Israelis and the rest Gentiles. The focus of the tribulation is to bring the Israelis back to Him, while punishing the world of its sins, which will be the main focus of the 144,000, as I understand it. We can learn and benefit from all scripture 2 Timothy 3:16. If scripture is misapplied then it could lead to error and confusion, all scripture is for us but is not all for us to implement or obey. Scripture must be rightly divided to avoid error most importantly in regards to the gospel. For example if one thinks Mark 16:16 is to them then they add baptism to the gospel, they have misunderstood and corrupted the gospel. I was asking what you were referring to here:"Now, how about dividing the synoptic gospels like you mentioned, some not being for the Gentiles? Care to discuss this more?" Edited October 29, 2019 by douge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behold Posted October 29, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 7 Topic Count: 87 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,795 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 3 Joined: 07/30/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted October 29, 2019 On 10/24/2019 at 11:37 AM, Justin Adams said: Our Pattern is Yeshua. Yes......but.......... And here is why. Paul, and only Paul.........said, "be a follower of me as i follow Christ". Paul is the only Apostle whom Peter said that Paul's letters, (Epistles) are "scripture", equal to the TORAH. 2nd Peter. Christianity is built, foundationally. We are all a part of a "body" that has a sure foundation, "Christ the Cornerstone", But the Apostles, are a part of this foundation, as we are built as a Church, on top of their faith. All real believers who came before us, are our foundation, and should Christ tarry 100 more years (impossible) but for the sake of this post's point.......if He did, then WE the true believers, will become a foundation for those who follow us. So, yes, we should absolutely emulate the works and lifestyle of God's unique Apostle, who, was not of the original 12, Yet, God as Yeshua, delivered to him PERSONALLY the Doctrines of the Church. Paul wrote down most of the NEW TESTAMENT, but, He literally wrote down almost ALL of the Doctrine Of the Church, for the Church. This is Paul. If you , reader, are not a student of Paul and His specific Epistles, then you are never going to be able to rightly divided the word of God,..... not ever. Heretics are not only Grace deniers, they are also rejectors of Paul as the Main Apostle through whom Jesus gave nearly 100% all we know about "Church Doctrine". This is another way to spot a New Testament heretic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douge Posted October 29, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 354 Topics Per Day: 0.17 Content Count: 964 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 181 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/14/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 29, 2019 18 hours ago, OneLight said: By what you presented above, nothing in the 4 synoptic gospels are for us. Nothing Jesus taught should be applied to the Gentiles. See how your way of thinking does not work? Sorry, I did not see the inclusion of verse 18 - bad eyesight. Let's look at both the verses and you can tell me what you don't think He can do through us. And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover. Which of the above do you say does not apply to us today, that Jesus could not do in or through us? Handling the truth of the word - interesting you say that as you see me not handling it correctly and I see you not handling it correctly. In other words, you are trying to correct me, and I you. What now? I have given extensive scriptural proof to support what I say, but your proof is just one or two verses. Scripture does not contradict itself. You said: "Let's look at both the verses and you can tell me what you don't think He can do through us. And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover. Which of the above do you say does not apply to us today, that Jesus could not do in or through us? " Jesus could do anything through us but we need to examine scripture to see to whom he decided to do all that is named in Mark 16:17-18 Mark 16:14 Jesus was speaking to the eleven disciples Mark 16:15 Jesus told the disciples to go preach the gospel. Which gospel? The gospel of grace was not yet revealed so the only gospel being preached by Jesus and the twelve was the gospel of the kingdom. Mark 16:16 He who believes the gospel and is baptized is saved Mark 16:17-18 Who gets all these signs? Only those who believe the gospel of the kingdom.....not the church today.....none of these signs are for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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