John 10:34

[Guest Ruthy]

Great thread folks thanks for the info, but I have been having a problem with this word elohim for some time with regard to John 1:1.

My problem is that I've been told that if I cannot accept the trinity, I am committing idolatry.

The problem is that those who tell me this use John 1:1 as proof that Jesus is God (elohim), but when I bring up the scriptures meantioned here to show that it does not prove anything, they cannot give me a convincing answer.

I'm sorry if this is hijacking the thread but it's something I am really worried about, can anyone help convince me that I'm wrong?

Much love Ruthy

[Atalyah]

I wouldn't try to convince you that you're wrong...

because I think you're right.

Looking at John 10:34, and the surrounding context, this seems to be how the events are playing out in my eyes..

1. The Jews are questioning if Jesus is truly the Messiah. (vv. 22-24)

2. Jesus answers that the works he does is the evidence that he is Messiah. (v.25)

3. Referring back to the discussion of the sheep and the shepherd at the beginning (10:4) of this chapter, Jesus says they don

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings,

The trinity is a sound concept and gives us understanding as to the nature of God in which the scriptures reveal Him as FATHER, SON AND HOLY SPIRIT. We find that the Gospels make it very clear that there are 3 persons, yet only ONE God, one entity, yet presented to us in 3 persons. We recognize this to be a very great mystery and one not easily understood. But to doubt this, I believe, is to doubt God's Word and those who don't believe in the triune nature of God should go to God Himself who gives wisdom. He WILL reveal the truth to you, if only you will accept HIS WORD.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Guest shiloh357]

I really don't understand this passage.

Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law, 'I SAID, YOU ARE GODS '?

Anyone?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It simply means that you can come back to God as a son of God through Jesus Christ with all of the power and knowledge of God at your command. The rest of the scripture is for those who don't. Through those who have and who will the earth and all that is in it will be judged real soon.

5 They do not know, nor do they understand; They walk about in darkness; All the foundations of the earth are unstable.

6 I said, "You are gods, And all of you are children of the Most High.

7 But you shall die like men, And fall like one of the princes."

8 Arise, O God, judge the earth; For You shall inherit all nations.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, that is not what it means. We had to deal with this issue at length last Fall.

The word "elohim" (small "e") can refer to magistrates or judges. This term when used of persons is ALWAYS a reference to judicial authority, and is not confering, in any sense, a form of deification.

The word "elohim" is also used in reference to the angels in Psalm 8:5, and the book of Hebrews confirms that. Unfortunately the NASB and the ASV both translate Psalm 8:5 thusly, "thou hast made him a little lower than God." They capitlized the "G" and it should not be. The writer of Hebrews quotes the same verse: "Thou madest him a little lower than the angels" (Heb. 2:7)

As for the verses from Psalm 82, it is clear from verses 1-5 that God is talking to a body of judges. These are people who have been, evidently, judging unfairly.

It is the same usage of the word "elohim" being employed in John 10.

In Psalms 82, the writer defines "gods" elohim as judges. The first few verses set the context as applying ONLY to people in authority. It does not apply to, nor was it talking to, regular people. It used that way often even in extra-biblical hebrew literature. Judges in a Jewish court (a bet din), were called elohim. Hebrew words often play double, triple and quadruple duty. One word can different meanings depending on how it is used in a paragraph or piece of literature. It is up to us to see the how a word is used.

In Psalms 8:5, elohim is renedered properly as angels. Hebrews chapter 1 quotes the same verse and renders it as angels. The Bible defines itself.

Actually judges makes perfect sense when applied to what Jesus said. The Pharisees would have understood Jesus to mean "judges" because as leaders of Israel they were the judges, or the magistrates. They were the ones in authority over the people. They fit the description given in the first few verses of Psalms 82.

[Atalyah]

Good explanation Shiloh! I studied it out some time ago, and came to the same conclusions

[Christ's Free Servant]

I really don't understand this passage.

Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law, 'I SAID, YOU ARE GODS '?

Anyone?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm going to "cheat" here and quote from my commentary:

Jesus referred to Psalm 82:6, where the Israelite rulers and judges are called "gods" (see also Exodus 4:16; 7:1). If God called the Israelite leaders gods because they were agents of God's revelation and will, how could it be blasphemy for Jesus to call himself the Son of God? Jesus was rebuking the religious leaders, because he is the Son of God in a unique, unparalleled relationship of oneness with the Father.

This was a good question. I had never noticed that passage before, even though I am quite familiar with the verses surrounding it. Amazing how you miss those little things like that sometimes until someone brings them to your attention. So, thanks! It challenged my brain.

[Guest shiloh357]

What I have told you here is the truth read the scriptures for your self.

It may be truth as YOU see it, but it is not THE Truth, according to Scripture. Anyone can post a list of Bible verses and twist them to mean what they want.

[ColleenLovesMischief]

I'm still confused can someone explaine the scripture a little deeper please?

[Atalyah]

I'm still confused can someone explaine the scripture a little deeper please?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Basically, GodsLove26, Christ quotes a verse from Ps. 82 to prove his point to the Jews that within their own Scriptures, men can be called gods, so to call himself the son of God is not blasphemy. Further, the idiom of calling God's representative by the name of God is not unusual in Scripture, and so we see the deeper lesson that though Christ was, in John, claiming to be the son of God, to call himself God was also a messianic priviledge.

His citing of this Scripture goes far deeper than that simple explanation however. There are other OT occurances that Christ could've cited that show that the title elohim (god/s) can be used of men. But Ps. 82 was specific to the situation. Have a close read of John 10:22-39, then Ps. 82, and then we'll look at Ps. 82 closely, and how it relates to the situation in John 10. I'll post up those sections for your convenience.

22

[ColleenLovesMischief]

Thank you so much......I actually understand now.