Alive Posted November 23, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,053 Content Per Day: 6.54 Reputation: 9,015 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted November 23, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Wayne222 said: The torah is not for us to live by. The just shall live by faith. And that faith is in the name of Jesus. We are commanded to love one another and to believe in the name of jesus. Right! And those are commandments. Most everything else is admonitions and guidance regarding 'how to' continue to enter into the benefits and economy of sonship. This is all for His Glory and for our benefit in this earthly existence and beyond. A Father wants His sons to grow up into who he is. Pretty simple. I like another illustration regarding nature and sonship. I have 4 children. There is nothing in my son, but me (and of course his mother). There is nothing in him that didn't come from me. He is nothing but me. When we died and were raised in Christ we were given a new Nature and that Nature is Christ--Divine. Its true we currently have this treasure in an earthen vessel, but the vessel doesn't change the Nature of the Life. There is nothing in me (my new nature) that isn't God. That isn't Christ. He wants us to 'grow into' our Nature, just as my son grows into his. This is one job of the Paraclete. To always point and inform and shed light on that Nature. Edited November 23, 2019 by Alive 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted November 23, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,053 Content Per Day: 6.54 Reputation: 9,015 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted November 23, 2019 Just now, Roar said: That may be not what you hear but THAT IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING!!!! Maybe so--maybe not. That wasn't my impression across several threads. At any rate--it is still error because it leads away from what the Father has for us now In Christ. To place so much emphasis there is at best to sow confusion. Mature Christians recognize it for what it is. It is referred to as discernment. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted November 23, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,053 Content Per Day: 6.54 Reputation: 9,015 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted November 23, 2019 1 minute ago, Roar said: Only in the confused because God's word is NOT the source of confusion. Only those that seek to twist it into saying what it is not saying, God's word is TRUTH and should be taught as such. A great many down through the years have said that and been wrong. I have tried to explain the distinctions and it is my hope and prayer that it will be of some help to those who need and want it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Bought 1953 Posted November 23, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,726 Content Per Day: 2.88 Reputation: 6,258 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted November 23, 2019 Let’s get to the heart of the matter.......I kinda feel like we are spinning our wheels here .....Plus, I am doing you a disservice - I’m not really reading your stuff anymore, so let’s simplify things....Does obedience to the Torah play a part in Salvation or in maintaining Salvation. Please answer yes or no. I will go first with a resounding “ NO.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted November 23, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,053 Content Per Day: 6.54 Reputation: 9,015 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted November 23, 2019 Just now, Roar said: So you are saying God's Word is the source of Confusion? No of course not----men are the source of confusion as well as the work of the enemy in men. Do you actually think that I meant that God's Word is a source of confusion? That would be very strange. I have zero wish to argue with you. My goal is to counter what you guys are laying out there in hopes of helping those that are confused. Unfortunately, contention gets more press than simply uplifting Christ. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Bought 1953 Posted November 23, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,726 Content Per Day: 2.88 Reputation: 6,258 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted November 23, 2019 Your evade the question as all Legalists do.Your non- answer speaks volumes.Please answer yes or no as I was able to do.As a reminder— I gave a resounding “ NO” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted November 23, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,053 Content Per Day: 6.54 Reputation: 9,015 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted November 23, 2019 (edited) In my view--if you are saved you are saved. What pushing the law and legalism does is confuse the saved and is a barrier to entering His rest and enjoying the inheritance of sons. Trying to keep 'law' won't unsafe you, but will make life more difficult than needs be. All that talk of the beauty of Torah and such is wonderful as the psalmist said--'Sweeter than honey', but in terms of our walking with the Lord in this Church Age, the Lord has moved on from there to a different place. Everything since Pentecost moves on from the physical to the spiritual. From the types and the tutor to the real and the new heart of flesh via a New Nature. I died and yet I live. The law is beautiful as is the psalms and prophets and there is much to learn there-- in that every bit of it speaks of 'now' and moving on to a very different footing. to add for clarity: He rescued us from being bound to the principle agency of 'law' and death to the principle agency of Grace and Life. They are as different as life is from death. Maybe so--maybe not. That wasn't my impression across several threads. At any rate--it is still error because it leads away from what the Father has for us now In Christ. To place so much emphasis there is at best to sow confusion. Mature Christians recognize it for what it is. It is referred to as discernment. We are commanded to love one another and to believe in the name of jesus. Right! And those are commandments. Most everything else is admonitions and guidance regarding 'how to' continue to enter into the benefits and economy of sonship. This is all for His Glory and for our benefit in this earthly existence and beyond. A Father wants His sons to grow up into who he is. Pretty simple. I like another illustration regarding nature and sonship. I have 4 children. There is nothing in my son, but me (and of course his mother). There is nothing in him that didn't come from me. He is nothing but me. When we died and were raised in Christ we were given a new Nature and that Nature is Christ--Divine. Its true we currently have this treasure in an earthen vessel, but the vessel doesn't change the Nature of the Life. There is nothing in me (my new nature) that isn't God. That isn't Christ. He wants us to 'grow into' our Nature, just as my son grows into his. This is one job of the Paraclete. To always point and inform and shed light on that Nature. These are the things I am portraying here----the emphasis should be on the New as informed by the types and tutor. I am speaking of Life. Another point can be made that might be helpful. In this new economy of Christ, we are to look inwardly not outwardly. His Life is in us and pulls us toward Him in the heavenlies. The Law is outside and pulls us earthward. Edited November 23, 2019 by Alive 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Bought 1953 Posted November 23, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,726 Content Per Day: 2.88 Reputation: 6,258 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted November 23, 2019 You are blowing it.....I will ask you one more time...it is very simple.....yes or no.....Does Obeying Torah Save or keep one saved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted November 23, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,053 Content Per Day: 6.54 Reputation: 9,015 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted November 23, 2019 I think that perhaps you are giving some new consideration. I praise the Lord for this...He has gone to a great deal of trouble to bring us from the first Adam to the Last Adam. It was all a journey. (That journey came through Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, the Prophets and Kings, to the One that embodies them all.) The point was and is the destination. We have learned, so that we are able to move on. Let's move onward and upward into Christ in our daily experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Bought 1953 Posted November 23, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,726 Content Per Day: 2.88 Reputation: 6,258 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted November 23, 2019 Yes or no or I am out of here......and yes, Old coots post was brilliant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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